Light ROM 1/LIGHT-ROM 1 (Amiga Library Services)(1994).iso/imagine/text/archive.39

Text File | 1994-10-19 | 900KB | 22,442 lines

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3702 Bill Clinton's Email Path
6/7/93 12:00 26/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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        This was sent to me so I thought I'd pass it on.



|   June 7, 1993
|
|   Nukers:
|
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|    On CNN this weekend they broadcast the email paths of both the
|   President and Vice-President. The mail will be screened just like
|   paper mail. Here they are:
|
|   [e-mail]
|
|   [e-mail]
|
|   Happy email-ing!

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        I hope they've got a big disk drive.




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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3703 Re: Bill Clinton's Email Path (fwd)
6/7/93 12:15 22/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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> June 7, 1993
>
>     On CNN this weekend they broadcast the email paths of both the
>   President and Vice-President. The mail will be screened just like
>   paper mail. Here they are:
>
>       [e-mail]
>
>       [e-mail]
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        I think you'll get better response if you use

                [e-mail]
        &&/||   [e-mail]



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>     Happy email-ing!
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3704 Re: Prism
6/7/93 12:11 19/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
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David Watters writes:
>Putting 2 seconds of thought into it, I would trace three
>rays per pixel, R, G, & B and have the index of refraction represent green and
>then have the red and blue be offset from that based on their relative
>difference in wavelength.

However, this will merely yield 3 discreet points rather than the continuous
spectrum that would result in real life. For a more visually accurate
representation using a dicreet wavelength model (ie. digital), one would have
to trace possibly hundreds of wavelengths to emulate light's continuous nature.
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This hardly seems practical so I imagine some sort of analog model is probably
preferable. I think you needed an extra 2 seconds of thought there Dave :-)
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3705 Re: DPS and other stuff...
6/7/93 13:41 29/ watters <[e-mail]>
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> From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> > DMI Editmaster is going to ship middle of July according to
> > people there and it comes in both NTSC and PAL.
>
> They said 2 months last september and every other time they have been asked
> for a release date. An actual release date doesn't seem to mean much to DMI.

I was in contact with DMI about using their board as a digital recording
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solution in a product we were working on.  In March they told me we would
be able to get one no later than the first of April.

It is my understanding that DMI's problems are related to C-A, Inc.'s problem
with getting the A4091/A4000T SCSI-II FAST controller out.  C-A, Inc.'s
problem has to do with a bug found in the Buster chip.

I don't see DMI's board being an option until C-A, Inc. irons out their
SCSI-II situation if the information I recieved is correct.

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           .__    __
David    ~   \_--'  |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering

          Congradulations Emerson Fittipaldi, Chevrolet, and Penske!!!
                    -=+ 1993 Indianapolis 500 Winners +=-
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3706 Re(2): DPS and other stuff...
6/7/93 23:09 31/ Jacek Artymiak <[e-mail]>
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In-Reply-To:  <[e-mail]>
>> The bad news for PAL users is that its NTSC only
>They are already working on PAL. It will follow the NTSC release very shortly.

The people at DPS told me to call them in a month of so... That ain't shortly
to me.. On the other hand it may be considering the time we had to wait for
any info about OpalVision modules.

>They said 2 months last september and every other time they have been asked
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>for a release date. An actual release date doesn't seem to mean much to DMI.

Thats a pity. I'd like to know more about their products.

>The DPS board most certainly takes advantage of field rendering. It can both

Thanks! I've heard its possible to simulate field rendering by interlacing two
images. Is that so? I use Imagine and have no hopes of using LightWave.

I expect to have a look at the IVS MovieMaker setup soon. I know its not the
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broadcast quality but it looks like a dream for pre-production, editing jobs.

 ___________________________________________________
|                                                   |
| Jacek Artymiak:                                   |
| e-mail to: [e-mail]          |
|                                                   |
| Sender: Space Station ME - 93001                  |
`---------------------------------------------------'

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Jacek
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3707 Re: Prism
6/7/93 19:08 12/ [e-mail] (Thomas E. Smith)
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I have an idea that I think will work. Though it laborious to do (sigh):

Do 7 renders of the same scene with the light source being the 7 colors
of the rainbow in each of the renders. Then for the blue end of the spectrum
give the transparent objects a slightly lower index of refraction, and the
reddish colors will get a higher index of refraction.

Then combine the pictures using DCTV or something. It should work. If you
try it let me know how it goes.
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                                                            Tom Smith
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21400.3.1.3708 Prism
6/7/93 20:51 23/ [e-mail] (William E. Costello)
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   Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 21:08:44 CDT
   From: [e-mail] (Thomas E. Smith)


>   I have an idea that I think will work. Though it laborious to do (sigh):
>
>   Do 7 renders of the same scene with the light source being the 7 colors
>   of the rainbow in each of the renders. Then for the blue end of the spectrum
>   give the transparent objects a slightly lower index of refraction, and the
>   reddish colors will get a higher index of refraction.
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>
>   Then combine the pictures using DCTV or something. It should work. If you
>   try it let me know how it goes.

Along the same lines, you could make use the stage editor to create all the frames.
start with the angle of refraction low, and the color of the light blue in the
first frame. Then set the angle of refraction high, and the color red in the last.
The more frames in the middle the more smooth the color transition will be.  Of course
you will still have to use a paint program to combine all the frames into one picture.
I think this will work, but he you never know until you try.
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Bill Costello

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3709 Miscellaneous
6/7/93 21:35 53/ [e-mail]
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'ello
     -)
    o

**quote**
From: "( Carsten Berggreen-Denmark )" <[e-mail]>
> Project-Forms-Detail-Cycle-Action-Stage-Action-Stage-Project-View Imagine.
                                                 ^^^^^
I saw you "complain" ....  hmmm you'r over reacting in the line above...
it's only:
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Project-Forms-Detail-Cycle-Action-Stage-Action-Project-View Imagine
and that's nothing to complain about... &:-)  &:-)
**End of quote**

I'm in no way complaining. I actually wanted to show the relative ease of
working with Imagine. From what I figured out till now, Real 2.0 is MUCH
more complicated.

**quote**
Still Real-3D sounds cool, but again, is it the same fun if EVERYBODY can make
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the same effects?  I doubt it...
**end of quote***

to quote you once again,
-          8464  Galten          "It isn't the equipment alone, it  -
-          Denmark                is also what YOU can do with it!" -

When you get a lot more options, you may create more and develop that wisdom
of techniques.

Command:
**quote**
Subject sez it all, I'd like to volunteer my services to do an object
for the restaurant project, can someone forward me the details?
**end of quote**

Yes! Yes! I read in the old compendium, (brought to me by Ronen Borshack -
Thanks, Ronen) that you were discussing building a virtual 'community'.
Everyone gives his room object, and you render it and put it in one
animation. Did it make it to 'A CINEMA NEAR YOU' yet? tell me more about
the restaurant project, I'd love to get involved!
Command:

**off the topic**
I'm in the closing stages of a SCALA presentation which involves two
adjacent screens. It's for a gala evening, with competition and prizes. The
two screens present ONE wide picture, the category, then the left one
displays the same picture on the whole screen, and the right one the
winners. Very exciting.
Well, I like it, anyway.

HermoNir, Nir Hermoni
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(give me some time, I'll get to a proper signature...)

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3710 Re: Stars
6/7/93 22:52 18/ [e-mail] (Jeffrey Walkup)
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> First create a normal sphere (F5). Then add a axis. Then make path
> on the axis. Then Join Axis with sphere. Then add a simple star
> object (try cone with few points). Then Replicate this star object
> along the path zou created. And la viola one space layer. To get
> a deep space effect you can combine several star layers with different
> sized sphere-paths. Also try tubes instead of spheres.

Yes!  This works like a charm!  You don't even have to do the "make axis
make path, join" step - you can just Replicate your object along *ANY*
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other object - simply type the name of the object into the "Path" box.
I didn't know you could do this!  It's quite interesting actually, if
you've not tried it, you should.  I think there are a lot of
possibilities - sure makes some nice stars anyway!

--
Jeff Walkup, Digital Animator / Videographer | Energy = Matter = Spacetime
 [e-mail] - San Francisco   |         ERLEICHDA!
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3711 UNSUBSCRIBE
6/7/93 04:30 15/ [e-mail] (David Dustin)
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I really want to unsubscribe from this mailing list.  Not due to lack of
interest, but due to the fact I now have to pay for Mail :(

I have sent a request to unsubscribe to imagine-request@...  but I am still
getting IML mail.  If Dave or anyone who can remove me from the list is
reading this, can you please remove me.

Twas fun while it lasted.....


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--
David Dustin               [e-mail]      |  Rendezvous BBS
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"I don't have time to think, I've got programs to write" | Eclipse Software
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3712 Re: Animating snakes (fwd)
6/8/93 09:22 43/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 93 09:22:12 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
To: IML <[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Animating snakes

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> In message <[e-mail]>, Shivani Govil wrote:
> >I was trying to animte a snake in motion,

David Oxley replied:
> In the last Imagine Newsletter, they describe how to animate a swimming fish
> using the Conform to Path function morphed over a number of frames.

For those interested in how this could be accomplished in LightWave.....
The new displacement mapping handles this task quite easily. In fact, in
the new release, there is a demo scene of mine in which I have a school of
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sharks swimming by the camera using the same sort of motion. It is simply
accomplised by using a black-white-black gradient image map for the displacement
map. This image is moved across the shark or snake and the pixel values in
the image tell how much to displace the object at any given point. The
difference between shark and snake motion is two parameters: texture size
and displacement amplitude. And texture maps have always followed object
deformations in LightWave.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
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Damn, I would REALLY LOVE to use Lightwave! Why doesn't Newtek release it
for the PAL users ?!

Nik.

[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3713 Re: Re(2): DPS and other stuff...
6/8/93 10:38 18/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
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> I've heard its possible to simulate field rendering by interlacing two
> images. Is that so?

It is possible. If you render 60 frames per second of action, and then toss
out the even numbered scan lines for the odd frames and the odd lines for
the even frames, and finally interlace the odd and even pairs together, you
will achieve the desired effect. There are perhaps a couple ways of doing
this with the current crop of image processing packages. Ofcourse your
render time will double due to the extra rendering of the eventually
discarded scan lines. And no, you can't simply render at 752 x 240 for each
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field and then combine because the image will then jitter vertically.
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%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3714 StarFields
6/8/93 18:26 14/ [e-mail]
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In regards to the discussion on star-fields....

Have you tried making a star-field animation in DPaint or whatever
and then mapping it on a simple plane? Renders quickly, looks pretty
good. I did a rotating planet in a star-field that way for an end title
and it worked great.

**********************************************************************
*"I do not see any mention of God in your description of the workings*
* of the Universe"  (Napoleon)                                       *
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*"Sire, I have no need of that hypothesis." (Laplace)                *
**********************************************************************
[e-mail]
(Bill Carey)
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3715 UNSUBSCRIBE
6/8/93 20:24 3/ Kiernan Holland <[e-mail]>
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21400.3.1.3716 UNSUBSCRIBE
6/8/93 21:50 1/ [e-mail]
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please oh please oh PLEASE!!!!
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3717 Starfield
6/9/93 00:45 30/ [e-mail]
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 [C [C [C [C [C [C [C [C [C [C [C [C [C [C [C [C [C [C [C [C [A [A [A [A [A [A [A [A

'ello aLL

Concerning stars - what I know is a Steve Worley's technique, from
Understanding Imagine 2.0 or from the IML compendium. Here goes:

Create a 4-sided pyramid. That's the simpllest object you can see from every
direction. Modify it's attributes to whatever you like. Copy-paste the
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pyramid, place it near the first one, rotate the clone some x degrees on
all axes to distort symetry. Join the objects.
Copy the object, paste it, rotate it, join. Repeat that process until you
have many pyramids, scattered randomly all over.
Now you can add, for example, a random pattern of gray-white tones, by
applying a brushmap to the object.

I think this is the simplest way to go. Just make sure you don't get too
close to the stars- clear an area in the middle of the starfield where the
action should take place. Pyramid stars can be interesting, but not very
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realistic.

Nir Hermoni, signing OF--






                                                                       .
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3718 grass
6/9/93 10:47 19/ [e-mail] (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston )
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Hi,
        I'm starting a project that will require a pasture, as in
a grassy field.  Has anyone done this type of simulation in the
past?  Any info would be appreciated.

SHayne

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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+  SHAYNE WHITE - STANDARD DISCLAIMER ....                   +
+  AMIGA 2000, RCS FUSION FORTY, 7 MEGS RAM, 213MB MAXTOR    +
+  [e-mail]                                        +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3719 grass
6/9/93 14:08 24/ Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>
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In a previous post [e-mail] wrote:

>I'm starting a project that will require a pasture, as in a grassy
>field.  Has anyone done this type of simulation in the past?  Any
>info would be appreciated.

Well, depending on what you are doing, a simple green plane with a
roughness value in the attributes can work for simple grass.  In fact
I made a short animation of a truck wizzing down the road and I didn't
even have to move the ground thanks to the "feature" built into the
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roughness attribute.
The "feature" I'm refering to is that roughness doesn't remain the
same between frames, I.E. you can't use it on non moving anims.

Of course I'm posting this from work, so I could be all wet.  But
that's the way I remember it.

*************************************************************
* Adam Benjamin                     [e-mail] *
* Christian Animator                   [e-mail]    *
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* Spokesmen for Club Paradise          Not a spokesman for  *
* Members ONLY (John 3:3)              Zenith Data Systems  *
*************************************************************

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3720 Re: grass
6/9/93 15:03 13/ [e-mail] (Jeffrey Walkup)
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>         I'm starting a project that will require a pasture, as in
> a grassy field.  Has anyone done this type of simulation in the
> past?  Any info would be appreciated.

The way I did this was to draw a grass texture, using green as the
'grass' and red/brown for the 'dirt'.  Then I extracted the brown parts
(with a stencil), converted them to grays, and used that as an altitude
map, complementing the grass color map.  This gave me raised grass with
brown dirt below.  Looks fine if you don't get *too* close.

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--
Jeff Walkup, Digital Animator / Videographer | Energy = Matter = Spacetime
 [e-mail] - San Francisco   |         ERLEICHDA!
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3721 Re: UNSUBSCRIBE
6/9/93 16:00 44/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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> From [e-mail] Wed Jun  9 00:32:56 1993
> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 21:24:53 -0600
> From: Kiernan Holland <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE
> Content-Length: 36
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE
> UNSUBSCRIBE
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> UNSUBSCRIBE
>
Did any one else see Daves message about him being on vacation?  I he still
on it?  Thats probably why some of you are having trouble getting unsubscribed
from the list....  Dave?  Are you back Dave?

And to you Kiernan Holland, you should know better...

as Dave says:

Command:
"HEY!
YOU!
WAKE UP!
LOOK AT ME!
:slappity smack:

            **** DO NOT POST SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE
                 MESSAGES TO THE LIST... IT IS RUDE!*****

Use the following:    [e-mail]
Command:
for these things.

I'd hate to have to kill anyone."

This might not work right away, however.  As I said, Dave may still be on
vacation.  (I can call you Dave, can't I?  ;)


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]
Command:

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3722 DPS-AR questions, anyone got the answers?
6/9/93 16:43 65/ RenderStud! <[e-mail]>
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-----

        Hi all in renderland!

        I have beem trying to contact DPS with some questions about their
Personal Animation Recorder.  However, as they are in the same time
zone, and I am working over the summer almost all day, it is a bit
hard to get in touch.

        Anyhow, I have a couple of questions , and since they haven't
replied to my FAX yet, I figured I'd ask the list here in case someone
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else knows.

        Well here they are,  I'll break them in to 2 groups, hardware and
software.  There's a couple in each.

HARDWARE:

1.  Is it shipping yet, or what is it's planned release date?
2.  What other IDE (smaller) would be reccommend or is ANY IDE drive
        really ok?
Command:
3.  For the above drive in 2, about how much info would it hold?
4.  Does the system have a BlackBurst/Sync INPUT? to all allow it to be
        synced to other devices.
5.  Does it have a sync output with RGB?
6.  Is there any type of Demo tape available esp. on SVHS?

SOFTWARE:
1.  How does the software convert images?  i.e.:  If you drag/drop or
        save an IFF to the drive, will some type of program intercept it
        and convert it on the fly?  Or is there some utility needed?
Command:
2.  Is there a needed utility to re-read the data from the drive in IFF?
3.  MOST IMPORTANT...for animation, can it
                a) pause on 1 frame for any length of time
                b) be told to play loops of frames
                c) better yet, have a script file or something similar to have
                        a scene where a and b can be done over and over in any order
                        etc...
4.  Related to 3, how or can you even insert a frame?  i.e.: are frames
        numbered?  And if so does it have to be played in order?  And if so
        is there a utility to re-number frames for insertions?  How about
Command:
        deleting a segment?

        Of all of these questions, 3 and 4 are the most critical.  I cannot
see having this type of device without the ability to pick and choose
what gets played and at what frame rate for different portions etc...
Imagine making some anims, Playing them back later, and then realizing you
need to lengthen the middle part, or need to insert something.

        I really hope this is available.  I can't believe this info isn't on
the literature i got.  Oh well.  If anyone has ANY answers to ANY of these
Command:
questions, please please please please post here or send e-mail to me!

                        Thanks alot!

                                Mike C.
                                aka RenderStud
                                [e-mail]


--
Command:
+======================================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3723 grass
6/9/93 13:56 17/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 17 (58%)
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-----

One of the Amiga magazines (Amazing Computing - I think) had a nice article
about creating tall grass for Imagine rendering a few months ago.  The
author used altitude maps as I recall.  Maybe someone out there  (who
actually has that issue - I just peeked at the article) could help you out!
   __
  /  \                        \                /            |      |
 |                             \              /     o       |    --+--
 |       _                      \            /          _   | _    |
 |      / \  | _  |    |         \    /\    /  | _  |  / \  |/ \   |
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 |     (   ) |/ \ |    |          \  /  \  /   |/ \ | (   ) |   |  |
  \__/  \_/| |     \__/|           \/    \/    |    |  \_/| |   |  |
-----------------------+----------------------------------+-----------
                       |                                  |
CL Wright              |                                  |
[e-mail]     \_/                                \_/
Pecten International Company (a wholly owned subsidiary of Shell Oil Co)
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3724 3D-ROM, InterChange v3.0
6/9/93 19:36 23/ John Foust / Syndesis Corporation <[e-mail]>
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To: >internet: [e-mail]

We're in the midst of cleaning up the Syndesis mailing list in
preparation for the newsletter that announces the release of the
"Syndesis 3D-ROM", our CDROM collection of more than 500 freely
distributable 3D models.

The 3D-ROM is a demonstration of the translation abilities of
InterChange Plus, our system for converting between 3D file formats.
All objects are present as LightWave objects and scenes, Imagine
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PC/Amiga, 3D Studio .3DS, AutoCAD DXF (3DFACEs) and Wavefront .obj.
It's also got more than 400 tileable, wrappable texture maps, plus
the message archives of the Imagine and LightWave mailing lists.

The next Syndesis newsletter will also announce InterChange Plus v3.0.
We've added a full ARexx interface, added 49 more InterFonts, among
other enhancements.

If you'd like to find out about these products, we'd be glad to add
you to our mailing list.  Please send me your name, address and phone
Command:
via private e-mail.  (Remember, don't reply to the mailing list.)


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3725 Re: grass
6/9/93 19:46 30/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
Lines 1 to 10 of 30 (33%)
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-----
        Hi,
                I'm starting a project that will require a pasture, as in
        a grassy field.  Has anyone done this type of simulation in the
        past?  Any info would be appreciated.

        SHayne
------------------------
There was an example in a early (say about a year or two ago)
Amazing Computing magazine about doing grassy fields in Imagine, in fact.
If you can't find this issue, I will try to track it down in my
-----
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collection... It is the best magazine for the Amiga in existence
and I suggest everyone get a 3 year subscription. Actually you get
Amiga WHirled because of the advertisements and Amazing computing
for the articles... Amiga Whirled probably doesn't have a clue
why they still exist, I just said why.

Anyways, I will look for the article... I'm not at home right now,
but I loaned my monitor out to a friend who just got a Amiga 3000T
from Creative Computing for 1200 bucks... Makes me sick,
I have an Amiga 3000 16/50 that I bought for 2300 dollars about 1.5 years
Command:
agoi on student discount, and my friend gets a 50 pound
tower case complete with a speaker and SCSI
terminator, 200 Meg Quantum, 5 megs of ram and a 25MHz 68030/68882 for
1200 bucks... Just makes me sick ( ;-) ).

Kiernan

(Now, I don't believe half the Amiga users when they say something
like "CBM is not able to do that", that's pure BS... "CBM won't".
They are business people. Took me 6 years to arrive at that conclusion.)
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3726 Message Test
6/9/93 20:22 7/ Jonathan Hirschman <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 7 of 7 (100%)
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This is a message test.  Someone please tell me if they see this!


           //Jonathan,
       \\//via AutoPilot


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3727 RE: grass
6/10/93 15:14 20/ "Oxley David" <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 20 (50%)
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In article <[e-mail]> Shayne White wrote:
>
>        I'm starting a project that will require a pasture, as in
>a grassy field.  Has anyone done this type of simulation in the
>past?  Any info would be appreciated.

I have a suggestion, which involves Essence and a digitised picture of a field
of grass.  Not that I've used it yet, but one of the Essence textures causes a
mapping to ignore the alignment of the object it is mapped on to.  So, if you
could get an image of a field (or maybe a short sequence of images of grass
-----
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swaying in a breeze, if the grass is long) and texture-map it onto a simple
plane using the appropriate Essence texture (I can't remember its name), you
might be able to convey the impression that your scene actually contains a
field of grass!

Just a thought :)

Regards,
David Oxley,
Logica UK Ltd.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3728 Re: 3D-ROM, InterChange v3.0
6/10/93 08:03 13/ First Consulting Group <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 13 (76%)
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The 3D-ROM sounds great.  One suggestion/question: Is there a conversion
program for the IBM PC to convert IFF files to TIFF, PCX, GIF, BMP or
any other common bitmap format?  If there is such a beast, I think
including it on the 3D-ROM would be a good idea.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3729 Syndesis 3D-ROM mailing list
6/10/93 09:19 14/ John Foust / Syndesis Corporation <[e-mail]
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To: >internet: [e-mail]

There seems to be some confusion: the "mailing list" in question is a
snail mail, US Postal Service, on-paper newsletter.  It is not an
electronic mail mailing list.  Send your mailing address to receive
the next issue of the Syndesis newsletter.

To answer the other most popular questions, yes, this disc can be
used on any computer that reads ISO-9660 CDROMs: Mac, PC, Amiga,
Atari, NeXT, SGI, etc.  (You can use it with Imagine PC, barring
-----
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whatever lurking bugs that Impulse still has when reading
Amiga-format objects in Imagine PC.)


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3730
6/10/93 11:15 14/ [e-mail]@unix.portal.com
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To: >internet: [e-mail]

There seems to be some confusion: the "mailing list" in question is a
snail mail, US Postal Service, on-paper newsletter.  It is not an
electronic mail mailing list.  Send your mailing address to receive
the next issue of the Syndesis newsletter.

To answer the other most popular questions, yes, this disc can be
used on any computer that reads ISO-9660 CDROMs: Mac, PC, Amiga,
Atari, NeXT, SGI, etc.  (You can use it with Imagine PC, barring
-----
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whatever lurking bugs that Impulse still has when reading
Amiga-format objects in Imagine PC.)


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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3731 Re: Imagine PC Questions
6/2/93 14:30 0/ [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3732 Re: grass
6/10/93 10:22 25/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Wed, 9 Jun 1993, Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston wrote:

>
>
>
> Hi,
>         I'm starting a project that will require a pasture, as in
> a grassy field.  Has anyone done this type of simulation in the
> past?  Any info would be appreciated.
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>
> SHayne
>
>
A friend of mine used Essence textures to get the look of grass. I think
that he used the bump texture

Nik.

[e-mail]
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>



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3733
6/10/93 12:34 66/ [e-mail]@unix.portal.com
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Okay,
for some reason, I thought having ten letters in my mailbox about grass was
hilarious, so I laughed, and now everyone in the lab is staring at me.
Here's my contribution:
if you want really really detailed grass, like every blade, here is an idea:
create a flat outline of grass clumps (kind of like a stage flat) and scatter
them around whatever kind of flat grass you want.  See, you said 'pasture', not
neatly mown southern California lawn.  Pasture makes me think of cows and
people chewing on weed tips and talking with a funny habit of extended
syllables.  Lots of spit, cowshit, and bugs the size of hamburgers.  I would
-----
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also suggest you give the 'flat element' to your grass some rises and dips,
and you can use the altitude concept with the magnetism on a flat plane.
To make it look better, raise LARGE areas to a certain height, then smooth
the level transitions so that you don't have gourad cliffs (only, what are
gourad cliffs?).  See, pastures are at least 3-4 feet deep.  if you sit down in
them, you cannot be seen.  It's like nature's shag carpet.  If you want to
really spiff up your panel thickets, try something like this:

front view:

Command:
  /\ /| /\ |\ ||
 /  V |/  \| \||
|              |
|              |
|______________|

side view:

    ||
   /||\
Command:
  | || |
  | || |
  |_||_|

top view:

      |
  |   |    |
==============
  |   |    |
Command:
      |

the use of flat side panels makes the object look thick from all sides.
I omitted the planes on the top.  I figured you wouldn't be flying a
helicopter camera.

If I am totally off-base with this, sorry.  I thought you were doing something
low to the ground, like a cow-interview or a documentary on burger bugs or
something.

Command:
        If you are just doing something flat, yeah, use a texture.  Make the
texture with close shades of yellow, off-white, and blue green.  I doubt you
can find grass that is purely one color, and I really doubt you can find
a pasture that is one color.  If you want to go crazy, you could make some
stalk weeds, out of a bent tube extrusion and something zig-zaggish at
the base for a clump.  When making the ground map, if you want it to seem
alive and inviting and you are not imitating the topography of Sarasota, FL
(max height in the county is 2 feet!!!!), build some raises and dips with
irregular patterning, but with about the same height of raise or dip.  ANy
more than that will make the variety in scale suggest a larger scene or
Command:
environment.

-Joe Solinsky
"What are you lauging at?"
"People are mailing me about grass."
"It could be worse-- it could be sod."
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3734 IDE vs. SCSI
6/10/93 11:04 33/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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        What does IDE stand for?

        I know SCSI is Small Computer Systems Interface and that is a
        standard peripheral configuration.  I am assuming IDE is a similar
        concept.  Can both exist on the same system?  I ask because I
        already have a SCSI controller in my 2500/30.  I am interested in
        the DPS harddrive animation system and realize it needs an IDE
        interface.  I need to know what that entails so I can plan accordingly.

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        Thanks,

        Dale





       _____________________________^_____________________________
                                  __ __
Command:
                                ____ ____
       _____________________________ _____________________________
       dale r. rogers
       afme support
       MailStop: LR24A4
       Tel: [phone]
       [e-mail]

                                    .

Command:



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3735 From My Chair
6/10/93 10:13 49/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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Long Time No See, Imagineers!  :-)

In a recent posting, Tom Setzer quotes me:

>>Use the following:    [e-mail]
>>for these things.
>>
>>I'd hate to have to kill anyone."

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Hmmmm, maybe I wouldn't hate it THAT much   ;-)
Seriously, please use the correct account (as noted in the IML Guide)
for status changes here. Thanks.

>
>This might not work right away, however.  As I said, Dave may still be on
>vacation.  (I can call you Dave, can't I?  ;)

Well, Will Riker calls me -Capt Jean Luc Wicard-...
;-)       (old Star Trek reference..never mind)
Command:
but "Dave" would be great. Yes, I am back and the subscription/unsubscription
bottleneck is cleared out. It should again take less than a day for any account
status changes. The new machine (the reason some folks got "unknown host"
errors while trying to post to the list last week) is up and running and
seems to be delivering reliably now. Many thanks for everyone's
patience while I was gone.

It appears that Dale Bennett, (Sys Admin extraordinaire
and professional KickBoxing champion of the Upper MidWest)
has successfully accomplished the "Bounceless Mailing List"
Command:
trick.  (YESSSSSSS!)

IML posters no longer need to attempt to edit their
message headers to redirect errors while talking to the list.
(e.g.- errors-to:[e-mail] or errors-to:/dev/null)

Posters will no longer be seeing them there butt-ugly bounces that
make posting a drag. (If you don't post to the IML, but only lurk...
don't worry about what I'm talking about.)

Command:
So far, things appear to be working fine.

Again, thanks on behalf of many readers Dale!


Dave Wickard  [phone]     "As doctors, we should NEVER be able
[e-mail]          accept the death of one of our patients
[e-mail]         unless it was caused by our own incompetence."
                                  -Steve Martin
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3736 Re: DPS-AR questions, anyone got the answers?
6/10/93 12:54 68/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
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> 1.  Is it shipping yet, or what is it's planned release date?

It is shipping now since last week.

> 2.  What other IDE (smaller) would be reccommend or is ANY IDE drive
>       really ok?

Only VERY fast IDE drives will work with it and the only one that has been
qualified thus far is the Seagate 3600A 500MB at about $780 street price.
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I'm hoping that the Micropolis 2112A 1.2GB is approved since I would like
greater animation capacity.

> 3.  For the above drive in 2, about how much info would it hold?

500MB hold 3-5 minutes.

> 5.  Does it have a sync output with RGB?

There is no RGB output. Any video output must obviously provide a sync signal.
Command:

> 6.  Is there any type of Demo tape available esp. on SVHS?

There is a demo tape that is being shipped with the product. In fact a couple
of my test animations are on it (a scene cut from Fred Floaty and the Furnace
animation test). You may be able to get DPS to ship you a copy.

> SOFTWARE:
> 1.  How does the software convert images?  i.e.:  If you drag/drop or
>       save an IFF to the drive, will some type of program intercept it
Command:
>       and convert it on the fly?  Or is there some utility needed?

You write images to it as though it were a standard hard drive. It does the
conversion for you on the fly (ie no additional utility is needed).

> 2.  Is there a needed utility to re-read the data from the drive in IFF?

As above, you read from it like an HD device as well.

> 3.  MOST IMPORTANT...for animation, can it
Command:
>       a) pause on 1 frame for any length of time

My understanding is that this is not a problem.

>       b) be told to play loops of frames

Because animation frames must be located sequentially on the disk, loop
operation (which is possible) can cause a glitch when jumping to a non-
contiguous location. Apparently the software includes the ability to copy
blocks of images to other locations to allow glitchless looping at the cost
Command:
of drive space.

>       c) better yet, have a script file or something similar to have
>       a scene where a and b can be done over and over in any order etc...

As mentioned above, frames must be sequential on the drive for glitch free
operation. This is why DPS is not pursuing the non-linear editing market.

> 4.  Related to 3, how or can you even insert a frame?

Command:
I'm not sure how that works yet.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3737 Progressive Peripherals #
6/10/93 12:41 45/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
Lines 1 to 10 of 45 (22%)
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-----


        Does anyone out there have a phone number for Progressive
        Peripherals that will give me a live human being?  I recently
        purchased Baud Banditt and the disk I received was bad.  I sent it
        back to them a couple of weeks ago and don't know the status.  I
        have left about 4 messages in a 2 week period, and they haven't
        returned my call.

        I have three numbers for them:
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                [phone]  Computer Labyrinth - I would need a specific
                                extension to get a real (question answering)
                                                person.  Even then I suspect I'll get a voice
                                                mail message.

                [phone]  Disconnected

                [phone]  This number has been changed to (303)
                                238-5555.  Get the idea?
Command:


        Thanks in advanced,

        Dale





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       _____________________________^_____________________________
                                  __ __
                                ____ ____
       _____________________________ _____________________________
       dale r. rogers
       afme support
       MailStop: LR24A4
       Tel: [phone]
       [e-mail]

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                                    .




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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3738 Re: grass
6/10/93 12:58 39/ Wayne Haufler <[e-mail]>
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> On Wed, 9 Jun 1993, Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >         I'm starting a project that will require a pasture, as in
> > a grassy field.  Has anyone done this type of simulation in the
> > past?  Any info would be appreciated.
> >
> > SHayne
> >
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> A friend of mine used Essence textures to get the look of grass. I think
> that he used the bump texture
>
> Nik.
>
> [e-mail]
>

I used a combination of Roughness and Essence Bump texture, but it
was only for a rough still of a backyard scene.
Command:

Your approach might depend on your camera's point of view of the ground.
Will the camera be pretty much at eye level and fairly close to the ground?
Or will it be mostly overhead?  That is, sideview or top view?  If the former,
then the previously mentioned technique from the magazine (I'll try to dig
up my copy) would work.

I think the article's technique mapped onto the sides (and tops) of various
'chunks' of earth on top of a ground plane, each chunk at different distances
from the camera.  But it was a broken-up marshy scene, rather than a
Command:
smooth prairie scene.

Hope this helps some.

             __
\\ /\\ /\\ //_    Wayne A. Haufler   [Christian/SW Engineer/XWindows/Amigan]
 \/--\// \//__    [e-mail]         McDonnell Douglas-Houston
     //           Hobby:  "Computer Animations For Christian Endeavors"
                  GodlyGraphics mailing list: [e-mail]
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3739 Re: IDE vs. SCSI
6/10/93 13:56 13/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
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>       I am interested in
>       the DPS harddrive animation system and realize it needs an IDE
>       interface.

The IDE interface is built right into the DPS board and the drive is dedicated
to it. No additional IDE controller is needed.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
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%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3740 Re: grass
6/10/93 13:59 64/ "Charles Congdon" <[e-mail]>
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On Wed, 9 Jun 1993, Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston wrote:

>
>
>
> Hi,
>         I'm starting a project that will require a pasture, as in
> a grassy field.  Has anyone done this type of simulation in the
> past?  Any info would be appreciated.
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>
> SHayne
>
>

        The Amazing Computing article featuring the creation of grasslands was
written by Marc Hoffman, and appears in the April 1993 issue.  Marc uses a
combination of color, filter, and altitude maps applied to a number of planes
at different distances to simulate grass.  While great for static scenes, this
technique is not very well suited to animations with a great deal of camera
Command:
motion (unless you are an amazing artist who can redraw the brushmaps from all
viewpoints in the animation).

        For animations, Essence is a reasonable solution, so long as you don't
get close enough to the grass to see it is simply bumps.  It also depends
on the sort of grass you want - Essence (or any form of alitude mapping that
is not used in conjunction with filter and color maps) is great for lawns and
golf courses, but not too good for waving fields of wheat.

        For "realistic" grass that has actual height and can be veiwed from all
Command:
angles, you need actual grass objects.  Unfortunately, you need between 1000
and 5000 blades of grass (at 3-5+ points each) to get something that doesn't
resemble a desert.  This uses a *lot* of memory, and renders very inefficiently
since the blades of grass are so much smaller than the Imagine world size.  If
you want your grass to blow in the wind, you need one object for every frame,
which rapidly eats up disk space as well.
        If you try to implement this anyway, note that you can't do this via
groups of Imagine objects (Imagine 2.0 locked up for me when I tried to group
more than about 200 objects).  Instead, you need to create a single object
using something like Glenn Lewis' T3DLIB (it's shareware - please register)
Command:
that represents a large number of grass blades.  Be careful that you don't
exceed Imagine's 65K point object limit, which is really easy to do when
modelling "natural" objects.
        Alternately, you can create each blade in the stage editor using either
T3DLIB or John Grieggs' ISL.  While the stage editor is not bothered by huge
number of objects, only add the grass to your scene after everything else has
been laid out (the screen update time can be very long).  Be warned that your
staging file will easily be larger than a megabyte in size.

        Unfortunately, modelling natural objects at the level of detail you see
Command:
looking out the window (OK, a very small portion of what you see out your
window) is very difficult without playing all sorts of tricks that involve
memory/speed tradeoffs.  The level of detail in even a simple shrub or a 10cm
sqaure of lawn is simply mind-boggling.

        Have fun with your project!
        Charles

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Congdon                                      Oracle Corporation
Command:
   Standard disclaimer...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3741 Re: 3D-ROM, InterChange v3.0
6/10/93 14:34 13/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        The 3D-ROM sounds great.  One suggestion/question: Is there a conversion
        program for the IBM PC to convert IFF files to TIFF, PCX, GIF, BMP or
        any other common bitmap format?  If there is such a beast, I think
        including it on the 3D-ROM would be a good idea.

------------------
Yes, it is called PBMplus... And it is very available... Yes, I am
a little fresh, but it is better than being rotten. They should really
put everything in either RLE, PPM or JPG format since those
are supported by most machines UNIX, non-UNIX alike.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3742 Re: From My Chair
6/10/93 14:48 4/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        Well, Will Riker calls me -Capt Jean Luc Wicard-...
        ;-)       (old Star Trek reference..never mind)
----------------------------
Just call us the guys with the "Red Shirts"
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3743 Re: IDE vs. SCSI
6/10/93 14:46 4/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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                What does IDE stand for?
---------------
Incredibly Dumb Expansion (interface)

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3744 IDE drive for DPS PAR (was Re: IDE vs. SCSI)
6/10/93 14:35 54/ watters <[e-mail]>
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>       What does IDE stand for?

I was told once that it stood for Integrated Digital Expansion, I
was also told it was for Intelligent Disk (Drive) Expansion.
We are a bit biased to SCSI around here so when I have asked in the past I
always got I Don't care Either...IDE.

>Can both exist on the same system?

Yes.
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>  I ask because I
>       already have a SCSI controller in my 2500/30.  I am interested in
>       the DPS harddrive animation system and realize it needs an IDE
>       interface.

It has it's own IDE interface onboard.  The DPS PAR with work in a system
that has a SCSI controller.

I hate to make a plug, but if people are planning on getting a drive for
Command:
the DPS Personal Animation Recorder... I strongly suggest you get in touch
with the company I work for as we are a distributor for many high-end drive
vendors including HP and the better Seagate stuff and I believe the
Seagate 3600A is  the only drive that has been qualified so far.
I will own a DPS PAR myself so you will have some experienced technical
support if you get the drive here.

Believe me... I don't care if you get the drive here or not... the money
doesn't go into my pocket... although I would enjoy getting to talk to a lot
of Amiga people that need help instead of a day full of Unix dweebs. :)
Command:

While we are at it... if you need any large hard disks, MagnetoOptical drives,
or tape (4mm DDS/DAT, 8mm, etc.) give Cranel a call because you will get
some decent pricing from a distributor and I will get to talk to a lot more
of you!  We also sell multi-Terabyte optical systems if you are rendering
a lot! :)

Cranel's number is [phone] or [phone]
You can find info and adds from Cranel in most Unix and Imaging Rags such
as SunWorld and Imaging Magazine.
Command:

Hope this wasn't too bad... I just hate that we don't sell to many Amiga
users... some Universities here and there that we are already under contract
with but that is it.

             _      __
David    ~  |_|_---'  |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
Command:
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering

          Congratulations Emerson Fittipaldi, Chevrolet, and Penske!!!
                    -=+ 1993 Indianapolis 500 Winners +=-
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3745 Re: grass
6/10/93 17:22 49/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        you want your grass to blow in the wind, you need one object for every frame,
        which rapidly eats up disk space as well.
                If you try to implement this anyway, note that you can't do this via
        groups of Imagine objects (Imagine 2.0 locked up for me when I tried to group
        more than about 200 objects).  Instead, you need to create a single object
        using something like Glenn Lewis' T3DLIB (it's shareware - please register)
        that represents a large number of grass blades.  Be careful that you don't
-----------------------------------
If you are a good (or at least mediocre) C programmer and have a
copy of POV or Rayshade, you can probably do the impossible using
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another rendering program. Rayshade lets you make instances of
objects so you could possibly create many objects... Another thing,
rayshade can do bump and tranparent mapping (not the greatest in the world)
but you probabnly could kludge it some way so you could have
rayshade INCLUDE a different image map each time a frame is rendered.
Using just the "system()" command and the FILE handling commands
you could write these steps (could be flowcharted):

1. Load in a animation frame from a 20 frame grass animation,
2. Create a Grey scale and Color RLE image from the frame,
Command:
3. Write the necessary "texture" call into a file that will be included
        in the original scene file (just after the object[s] to be bumped
        and made transparent around the edges of the grass)..
4. Tell rayshade to render the scene.
5. Cjpeg the image and store it away in a directory or archive it away.
6. Delete the original image created by rayshade.
7. Go to next frame in grass animation until there is no more frames
        in the grass animation.
8. Else restart grass animation frame number count until the number of
        repeats is done.
Command:

As I might have said, this is pretty darn easy to code and beats
playing around with programs like Imagine... it is more screwy,
but hey what good is a computer science degree if you can't use it??

Good news.. we are going to get a SGI server (150 Mips) and 4 SGI
Indigos, late next week, or so. I will need to figure out a way
to have all five systems working on one animation... Maybe I can
now do 4000 frame animations at 640x480 ;-), probably not.
The server will have 2 processors... this should make for some
Command:
good tests... It is feasible to write code for Rayshade that
conforms all objects in a universe to any mappable function...
It is easy, but screwy also, just make copies of every
object then remap all the points so that they align with a
function for both the x and y axis then just shoot the function
(if periodic) out of phase for each frame about a 10th of
a radian or something like that... anyone know how to make wavy gravy
(not the 60-70's hippy clown)... like the floppy sombrerro.

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3746 Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/11/93 00:32 27/ Santi Lo Monaco <[e-mail]>
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Well last Dave's message made me think maybe I can try again to post to
this list without being Kicked-off bouncing in the cyber-space.
BAD NEWS FOR IMAGINE-PC USERS!!!!!!!!
When my copy arrived, I couldn't wait to get down with the thing and get
some real GREAT stuff done......NO WAY.
I mean, have read ALL the "manual" (that is always been the best reason to
avoid pirated stuff), and while diligently following suggested examples I
would regularly find myself at the dos C:> with a weird message about XXXXX
Bytes being still allocated, the only time i got to the point to Ray-Trace
ONE (1) imagine that was mercylesly ""crappy" i suppose not a tremendous
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amount of thinking went in developing antialiasing algorithm, (TIP: you
single IMPULSE programmer check this book: Photoralism and Raytracing in C,
by Stephen Coy  (VIVID author) S&M Books.

The worst thing is that when I called Impulse they told me It was the
first time somebody complained about bugs in the PC version (IT is not
BUGS, IT IS UNUSABLE!!!!). But ho ho guys this is the Net they cannot hold
the truth, I have personally checked with 3 other users (whose addres i got
from the list) the have got the same problems I have and fell "mixed
feelings about Imagine PC and Impulse"
Command:

This is for their records: IT IS NOT BAD HARDWARE IN 1 (single ) PC . IT
IS
REAL WORK-STOPPING BUGS IN THE SOFTWARE PERIOD.
so long and thanks for the hospitality.
Santi Lo Monaco
[e-mail]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3747 IDE vs. SCSI
6/11/93 00:24 7/ Jonathan Hirschman <[e-mail]>
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I belive that IDE stands for Intelligent Drive Electronics.


           //Jonathan,
       \\//via AutoPilot


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3748 Message Test Results
6/11/93 00:23 69/ Jonathan Hirschman <[e-mail]>
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Thanks to everyone for verifying that I could send messages to IML.  I can
also see my own message, in addition to all of your verifications and
critiques :)
   Only hitch was this here "error message"



>Date:  10-Jun-93 00:42 EDT
>From:  Mail Delivery System   >INTERNET:[e-mail]
>Subj:  Delivery failure notification
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>
>Sender: [e-mail]
>Received: from mercury.unt.edu by iha.compuserve.com (5.65/5.930129sam)
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>23:42:06 -0500
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>From: Mail Delivery System <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail]
>Date:    Wed, 9 Jun 93 23:41:55 CST6CDT
>Subject: Delivery failure notification
>
>With reference to your message with the subject:
>   "Message Test"
>
>One or more addresses in your message have failed with the following
>responses from the mail transport system:
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>
>   User <[e-mail]> not known at this site.
>
>For assistance, please mail [e-mail].
>
>-------------------- Returned message follows ---------------------
>Received: from mercury.unt.edu by gab.unt.edu (Mercury 1.0);
>    Wed, 9 Jun 93 23:41:48 CST6CDT
>Received: from email.SP.Paramax.COM by mercury.unt.edu with SMTP id
>AA28357   (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 9 Jun 1993
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>23:41:48 -0500 Received: by email.sp.paramax.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
>        id AA18983; Wed, 9 Jun 93 22:24:17 CDT
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>Date: 09 Jun 93 23:22:14 EDT
>From: Jonathan Hirschman <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
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>Subject: Message Test
>Message-Id: <[e-mail]>>
>
>
>This is a message test.  Someone please tell me if they see this!
>
>           //Jonathan,
>       \\//via AutoPilot
>
>
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>

Thanks again...


           //Jonathan,
       \\//via AutoPilot


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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3749 Re: Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/11/93 05:14 16/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
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        I too have that annoying bug where for no reason what so ever
it just quits and say XXXX bytes still allocated.  I just kept saving
my work, reloading and starting over.  I don't think I'll use the PC
version that much though.  I haven't called impulse yet about it as
I've been too busy.  Oh well.


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--
+======================================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3750 Grass replies
6/11/93 07:31 28/ [e-mail] (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston )
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        I'd like to thank everyone for their replies concerning
the pasture that I am trying to create.  So far I have used
the Essence bump texture and a roughness setting of about 130 to
achieve the effect.  I think it looks pretty good, but I will
continue to play around, possibly placing clumps of weeds, and
other things (cow patties perhaps :) around the field.
        The pasture is a grazing pasture, so the grass must be
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short.  The project is something I'm doing for my parents, who
own a dairy farm.  I want to have a cow or two grazing in a field
with the farm's logo.  When I get it done I'll post my results
and any techniques that I used or was informed of by others.  I
couldn't believe the number of replies I got from my first
question.  Thanks again for the help!

Shayne


Command:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+  SHAYNE WHITE - STANDARD DISCLAIMER ....                   +
+  AMIGA 2000, RCS FUSION FORTY, 7 MEGS RAM, 213MB MAXTOR    +
+  [e-mail]                                        +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3751 Grass replies and COWS-Objects
6/11/93 11:44 8/ [e-mail] (Heberle H.)
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Hello Shayne,
I have a cow for you. It's from Viewpoints free distributable objects.
Are you interested, aren't you?
Greetings to all of you in the USA. I will be back in september. The
next time to discover your country.
You should visit Germany. It' an interesting area.
Horst Heberle
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3752 brushes
6/11/93 12:18 23/ [e-mail]
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Hello fellow Imagineers,
        I ran into an interesting problem last night involving brushmaps.
I was rendering an example pic to show the difference between altitude maps
and color maps. I had four spheres, one with no map, one with color, one with
altitude, and one that used both.

All spheres used the same iff file for the brush. Now for some reason when I
went to render, I would get an error message saying "Can't access brush.."
with my brush path. I fiddled around with different combinations of the
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spheres and what seems to be happening is Imagine chokes if there are more
than 4 references to the same brushmap. I copied the brush to a second name
and referenced it twice and the first twice, and it rendered perfectly.

Now is this just a glitch in my setup, or is there some imagine limitation I
don't know about?

Also, on the "What does IDE mean?" thread, it's Integrated Drive Electronics,
at least according to the newest InfoWorld...

Command:
Zach Williams ([e-mail])
Precision Imagery

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3753 Re:  Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/11/93 11:31 10/ [e-mail] (Kurt Schultz)
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-----
Wait a minute. I've had/used Imagine PC for about a month. No problems at all.
Anti-aliasing is adjustable from the preferences screen, try changing it.
While you can certainly complain about Imagine's design, I have found that
the port to the PC to be rather good in regards to the platform migration.
I've had no memory errors at all, everything works OK so far. Of course it
helps if you already use/know Imagine on the Amiga. There certainly could
be some improvements nad some bugs squashed, but it runs, its usable, and
it makes images and animations. I know because I've made'em.

kurt
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3754 Fred Fish Disks
6/11/93 13:10 8/ [e-mail] (Carroll Moore)
Lines 1 to 8 of 8 (100%)
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-----
I'm sorry for using this list for an answer to this question,
but can someone give me the address of a good ftp site for
current as well as older fred fish PD disks?  I started using
oes.orst.edu but there fred fish disks are incomplete (the
contents file does not match the archives available in the
directory).  Any help would be appreciated!

Carroll
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3755 Re:  Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/11/93 14:35 12/ [e-mail] (Elmer Beachley)
Lines 1 to 10 of 12 (83%)
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Santi:

I too purchased PC Imagine and it does not work on my system, even with
all drivers (except mouse) and memory managers disabled.

It does work on a friends PC, but I've tried everything the tech support
guy (a very nice fellow btw) and it still doesn't work on MY system.
I've set it aside for the moment.  Maybe they'll fix it but I got the
impression they don't have a way to test on a wide range of hardware.
Sigh,
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Elmer Beachley [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3756 Re: brushes
6/11/93 23:41 20/ Jacek Artymiak <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 20 (50%)
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-----

In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>

>All spheres used the same iff file for the brush. Now for some reason when I
>went to render, I would get an error message saying "Can't access brush.."
>...
>Now is this just a glitch in my setup, or is there some imagine limitation I
>don't know about?

I don't think its Imagine at all. Rather DOS getting confused when it receives
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requests for access the file while previous request has not yet been cleaned up
after.

You can't blame Imagine for everything ;-)

.------------------------------------------------------.
| Jacek Artymiak, email: [e-mail] |
 ------------------------------------------------------

Jacek
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3757 RE:What is IDE
6/11/93 16:28 4/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 4 of 4 (100%)
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Well How about Internal Data-Bus Extension ???

Jas
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3758 Rayshade?
6/11/93 16:05 5/ [e-mail] (William E. Costello)
Lines 1 to 5 of 5 (100%)
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Does anybody know if there is a mailing list for rayshade?


bill.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3759 RE:What is IDE
6/11/93 17:20 5/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
Lines 1 to 5 of 5 (100%)
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        Well How about Internal Data-Bus Extension ???
------------------
That's IDBE...

How about Instant Disk Erase??
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3760 Re: IDE vs. SCSI
6/11/93 16:52 8/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
Lines 1 to 8 of 8 (100%)
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-----
        I belive that IDE stands for Intelligent Drive Electronics.


                   //Jonathan,
               \\//via AutoPilot
-------------------
Intelligent Drive Electronics <= 200 Meg hard drives
Incredibly Dumb Electronics > 200 Meg hard drives
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3761 Re: Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/11/93 16:49 86/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
Lines 1 to 10 of 86 (11%)
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        I mean, have read ALL the "manual" (that is always been the best reason to
        avoid pirated stuff), and while diligently following suggested examples I
        would regularly find myself at the dos C:> with a weird message about XXXXX
        Bytes being still allocated, the only time i got to the point to Ray-Trace
------------------------
Well at least the Imagine manual is not as bad as the wordperfect manuals.
Impulse has never been good on manuals... They really really and trully need
a staff of technical writers. It really seems like Impulse is a
small company because the quality of software and documentation you
get from them looks like a one-man operation. You can find better
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stuff coming out of shareware. I really think Impulse could do a lot
better, they just need to organize themselves better. They need
better programmers, that is for sure... Any Bachelor Degree level
graphics programmer could create better rendering algorithms
and any applications programmer could create an easier to use
interface, but I don't know why Impulse hasn't hired any
of these programmers...
-----------------------
        ONE (1) imagine that was mercylesly ""crappy" i suppose not a tremendous
        amount of thinking went in developing antialiasing algorithm, (TIP: you
Command:
        single IMPULSE programmer check this book: Photoralism and Raytracing in C,
        by Stephen Coy  (VIVID author) S&M Books.
-----------------------
Yes, I have the programs that come withthe book... It is pretty interesting.
I don't even use Imagine's rendering module because you can find "better"
rendering software in shareware and public domain. My advice to Impulse
is "make an export/rendering option to use external rendering modules
like Renderman, Rayshade, POV and Radiance. Adding an Arexx interface
would be even cooler... " I bet, if they add just a minimal amount of
support for external rendering software and Arexx, anyone would be able
Command:
to write software to render animations on a multi-workstation network
using multiple copies of a public domain rendering program.
I think it is a little screqy that they haven't.. Even the MAc program
VISION 3D supports Radiance, Renderman and Rayshade formats and
its in public domain. The only thing that is keeping Vision 3D from
being commercial quality software is a better interface and animation
support... I recommend it to anyone, but it is a several times slower
than Imagine ona the same processor. I am writing programs to work
around what I cannot port to an external rendering program.
-------------------------
Command:
        The worst thing is that when I called Impulse they told me It was the
        first time somebody complained about bugs in the PC version (IT is not
        BUGS, IT IS UNUSABLE!!!!). But ho ho guys this is the Net they cannot hold
        the truth, I have personally checked with 3 other users (whose addres i got
        from the list) the have got the same problems I have and fell "mixed
        feelings about Imagine PC and Impulse"
-------------------------
True, it hasn't been a success... I think that companies that develop
for the Amiga need to stop depending on the "comfee chair" that
Amiga users give them when they make mistakes, because it causes
Command:
developers to (at least the more dishonest and crooked ones)
ignore potential errors. I really believe that about 50% of the Amiga software
that exists, is overpriced for the ammount of obvious effort that
is put into it. I'm constantly seeing them... For instance,
the "Sign Language" teaching program that just recently came out...
All it teaches is 26 letters represented in sign language.. Stupid...
You can learn that without the program... they should have an entire
dictionary of sign language complete with animations on a CD-ROM
or 20 disks... All the cost, zero effort.. How about Directory OPUS...
Everyone likes this one, but what is keeping anyone from creating something
Command:
just like it?? (I never have used it, but all it looks like to me is a
fancy alternative to symbolic shell, which are in public domain).
-------------------------
        This is for their records: IT IS NOT BAD HARDWARE IN 1 (single ) PC . IT
        IS
        REAL WORK-STOPPING BUGS IN THE SOFTWARE PERIOD.
        so long and thanks for the hospitality.
        Santi Lo Monaco
        [e-mail]
-------------------------
Command:
WHat BIOS does you and your friends use??? I wrote a assembly
program for a professor last semester in 8086 assembly... The
program worked on all the PC's in our computer lab but
crashed on his machine. I believe his machine has some finer
details in the operating system that caused it to crash.
There are 256 interrupts in a PC, each interrupt has any number
of (or 0) subroutines... If one should change, that could
screw up some programs that use that subroutine. The handling
on interrupts and the location of the routines in memory
varies from PC to PC. I would suggest trying it on many different
Command:
machine of different BIOS, operating system revisions
and possibly system hardware. If it still fails... Then I
would contact Impulse.

If they think you are wrong, give them the proof...
They will not get off their butts unless you force them to...
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3762 Re: Fred Fish Disks
6/11/93 17:15 39/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
Lines 1 to 10 of 39 (25%)
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-----
        I'm sorry for using this list for an answer to this question,
        but can someone give me the address of a good ftp site for
        current as well as older fred fish PD disks?  I started using
        oes.orst.edu but there fred fish disks are incomplete (the
        contents file does not match the archives available in the
        directory).  Any help would be appreciated!
-------------
Have you tried doing a string search on "Archie" for fred fish disks.
The place I frequent for fred fish disks has a "ux1" in the
first part of the address... Anyways... some people get mad at
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me if I tell them how to use Archie... if you are one who
who hates extra info, just ignore the rest.

Archie is a Anonymous FTP Site Database (or Archive).
By telneting to a Archie server you can do name searches
on most all the FTP sites known to man. Since there is
help provided internally to every Archie site and the FTP-List (common
list) tells you how to get on to Archie, I will only give
an example of how you would go about finding all the fred fish
disks in the FTP world..
Command:
type the following in this order (don't try to figure out what you
are doing... follow this exactly):

telnet archie.unl.edu
archie
set search exact
set sortby time
prog fish
mail "your Email address here"
bye
Command:

where "your Email address here" is your email address, the only
thing that is not typed exactly...
What this will do is search for every file/directory on every FTP site
in the database that has the name "fish", then it mails the list
back to "your Email address" and ends the session with "bye" ("quit"
might work, if bye doesn't).

Later
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3763 Re:  Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/11/93 17:17 21/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
Lines 1 to 10 of 21 (47%)
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-----
        I too purchased PC Imagine and it does not work on my system, even with
        all drivers (except mouse) and memory managers disabled.

        It does work on a friends PC, but I've tried everything the tech support
        guy (a very nice fellow btw) and it still doesn't work on MY system.
        I've set it aside for the moment.  Maybe they'll fix it but I got the
        impression they don't have a way to test on a wide range of hardware.
        Sigh,

        Elmer Beachley [e-mail]
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-----------------------------
What is the difference between you and your friends PC??
BIOS?
MSDOS?
IBMDOS?
What revision?
CPU?
Memory?
Any TSR's running?
Using doskey?
Command:

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3764 Re: Fred Fish
6/11/93 19:44 9/ "Andrew Church" <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 9 of 9 (100%)
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-----
  Here are two FTP places I've found with Fred Fish libraries:

ux3.cso.uiuc.edu  (128.174.5.61) -- Fred Fish, AmiNet, other
nic.funet.fi     (128.214.6.100) -- Fred Fish, LOTS of music, other

  Hope this helps.

  --Andy Church

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3765 Re:  Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/11/93 20:39 19/ [e-mail] (Elmer Beachley)
Lines 1 to 10 of 19 (52%)
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-----
almost everything is different unfortunately.

      works          my system
----------------  -----------------
 20mhz 386          40mhz 386
 ??? bios           ami bios
 dos 4.?            dos 5.0
 4meg memory        16meg memory
 several tsrs       only the mouse driver
 no doskey          no doskey
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i might add that i've had no problems with software compatibilty before
this with my system.  it has ide, stealth vga, wd8003 network, adaptec 1522
scsi, old targa-16 and soundblaster-16.

the only peripherals imagine mentioned as having problems were the
bernoulli disks.

elmer beachley
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3766 Re:  Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/12/93 09:18 37/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
Lines 1 to 10 of 37 (27%)
-----
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-----
              works          my system
        ----------------  -----------------
         20mhz 386          40mhz 386
         ??? bios           ami bios
         dos 4.?            dos 5.0
         4meg memory        16meg memory
         several tsrs       only the mouse driver
         no doskey          no doskey

        i might add that i've had no problems with software compatibilty before
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        this with my system.  it has ide, stealth vga, wd8003 network, adaptec 1522
        scsi, old targa-16 and soundblaster-16.

        the only peripherals imagine mentioned as having problems were the
        bernoulli disks.

        elmer beachley
-------------
That is a tough one.. I would have to have a copy of it myself to
diagnose it... You could probably DEBUG the binaries and do a trace to
Command:
see where it goes or probably find out where the message is being called
and find the subroutine...  Chances are the code was compiled
entirely in C and tracing would be near impossible... But it is worth a
try..

It might have problems with the networking software if it is
NFS. We have NFS and there is some stuff that just does not like
NFS for some reason...  I'm not too knowledgeable about networks...
Besides you shouldn't have to diagnose these problems.. Impulse needs
to work them out...
Command:

Well see you later

Good Luck,

Kiernan Holland
[e-mail]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3767 Moon IFFs
6/13/93 01:29 9/ Tony Jones <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 9 of 9 (100%)
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-----
Does anyone have or know of any colour/altitude brushes that will render as
a reasonably realistic moon?

--

  _/_/_/ _/_/_/  email: [e-mail] | "Every day for us something
   _/     _/   FidoNet: 2:253/404.35       |  new, open mind for a different
  _/   ___/   AmigaNet: 39:138/1.35        |  view" - Metallica

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3768 Re:  Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/12/93 17:12 13/ [e-mail] (Elmer Beachley)
Lines 1 to 10 of 13 (76%)
-----
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-----
Kiernan:

I've tried booting without any drivers except the mouse, so while I do
use FTP and NFS normally, there is no software active when I try imagine.

After I start imagine it reads the disk but I never get the startup picture
on the VGA.  I think I tried changing the name of the startup picture
to see if I got an error message, and as I remember, I did not.

So I'm pretty much stumped.  I don't have the time right now for low level
-----
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debugging.  Thanks for your ideas.

Elmer
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3769 Phong shading and stuff
6/11/93 08:49 29/ Byrt Martinez <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 29 (34%)
-----
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-----
Systems'n'Software, Fremont, CA  94539-6669
Comments: Validated 11-11-92
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 08:39:45 PDT
Organization: Systems'n'Software, Fremont, CA  94539-6669

Howdy fellow Imagineers!

I'm hoping someone has a "fix" or method for achieving what I want.
I'm trying to build an object and it is comprised of several grouped
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objects. In one area I would like to blend two objects together, as if
one was "pulled" from the other. The two objects are intersecting and
separate. When I simply put them together there is a definite sharp
boundary where they intersect. I would like them to be phong shaded
together. Make soft has no effect, probably because they are separate
objects. Anybody have any ideas?

Also, I 've built a cylindrical type of form object which phong shades
very nicely. But when I use a slice on part of it, the area where I
sliced does not keep the phong shading, at least not consistently. It
Command:
is especially noticable when viewed from an acute angle. The faceting
from the polygons becomes very pronounced. Again, Make soft has no
effect. Any clues on why this is happening?

Byrt Martinez

----
[e-mail]  (Byrt Martinez)
Systems'n'Software Free Public Access BBS --- [phone]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3770 Re: Progressive Peripherals #
6/12/93 10:10 34/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 34 (29%)
-----
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move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

On Thu, 10 Jun 1993, Dale R Rogers wrote:

>
>
>       Does anyone out there have a phone number for Progressive
>       Peripherals that will give me a live human being?  I recently
>       purchased Baud Banditt and the disk I received was bad.  I sent it
>       back to them a couple of weeks ago and don't know the status.  I
>       have left about 4 messages in a 2 week period, and they haven't
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>       returned my call.
>
>
>
>       Thanks in advanced,
>
>       Dale
>
>
>
Command:
>
>
Tell me about it! It is a lot worse when calling from Australia.
Apparentely their Tech support used to be good....

BTW, does anyoone know if they're shipping those Zeus boards at any higher
than the snail's pace?

Nik.

Command:
[e-mail]



Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3771 moon iffs
6/13/93 07:18 13/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 13 (76%)
-----
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text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
 From: nova@ibmp
[H[5B---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
[K[K[K[K[K[K[K[K[K[K[K[K[K------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------
[K[7;1HDoes anyone have or know of any colour/altitude brushes that will render

as[K[8;1Ha reasonably realistic moon?[K[9;1H[K[10;1H--


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the first anim I made w/ Imagine was a simple rotating moon-:)
I used a 32 color iff from the Distant Suns package of a moon section
and it looked pretty realistic way back when. If you don't have access
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3772 Re: Moon IFFs
6/13/93 05:54 17/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 17 (58%)
-----
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-----

On Sun, 13 Jun 1993, Tony Jones wrote:

> Does anyone have or know of any colour/altitude brushes that will render as
> a reasonably realistic moon?
>
> --
>
You may want to try getting onto pubinfo.jpl.nasa.gov - they have some
nice GIF's available for FTP
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Nik.

[e-mail]



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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3773 Re: Phong shading and stuff
6/13/93 09:44 37/ RenderStud! <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 37 (27%)
-----
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move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

>
> objects. In one area I would like to blend two objects together, as if
> one was "pulled" from the other. The two objects are intersecting and
> separate.
>
        Okay....the only way Imagine lets you phong shade is by having each
part be the same object!  I would reccomend saving the objects seperately
for safety.  Then make 2 objects 1 when they're together and 1 when
they're apart by positioning them and then JOIN'ing them.  Save these
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2 new objects, and morph them.  That should do it.

>
> It is especially noticable when viewed from an acute angle. The faceting
> from the polygons becomes very pronounced. Again, Make soft has no
> effect. Any clues on why this is happening?
>
        I am not sure if this is due to your slice, but Phong shading has
kind of a limitiation.  If you have 2 (or more) polygons and view them
from an angle, you'll get nice smooth shading.  But if you view them
Command:
front on, you'll get a Sillouhette view which shows the polygons along with
the shading.  Basically, phong shading will interpolate the color and
make smooth shades along the surface of the polygons, but will not do
anything for the edges.  If you want smoother edges, you MUST use more
polygons.  The closer you get to your object, or the larger it becomes
means you typically need more polygons.

                                Mike C.


Command:

--
+======================================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3774 Re:  Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/13/93 23:49 14/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        Kiernan:

        So I'm pretty much stumped.  I don't have the time right now for low level
        debugging.  Thanks for your ideas.

        Elmer
-------------------------
Sure.. No problem... I am just a computer aide and sometimes when
someone has a problem, I always think there must be some way to fix it, so
my AIDEing kicks in .....
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Its like the joke... "What is a Computer Aide??"
                  "An Unemployed Computer Professional"

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3775 Re: Phong shading and stuff
6/14/93 00:05 27/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        >
        > It is especially noticable when viewed from an acute angle. The faceting
        > from the polygons becomes very pronounced. Again, Make soft has no
        > effect. Any clues on why this is happening?
        >
                I am not sure if this is due to your slice, but Phong shading has
        kind of a limitiation.  If you have 2 (or more) polygons and view them
        from an angle, you'll get nice smooth shading.  But if you view them
        front on, you'll get a Sillouhette view which shows the polygons along with
        the shading.  Basically, phong shading will interpolate the color and
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        make smooth shades along the surface of the polygons, but will not do
        anything for the edges.  If you want smoother edges, you MUST use more
        polygons.  The closer you get to your object, or the larger it becomes
        means you typically need more polygons.

-------
Sometimes I wish Imagine had some way of using Splines to create
objects... I mean, make the objects smooth in the first place
then let you create approximations accoding to how much memory you
have left... That way, the program could have the capability to create
Command:
more polygons within the area that is visible to the observer and
all other parts that are invisible or reflected off the objects
could be given a minimum number of polgons per patch...
I wonder if anyone has ever thought about that...

Kiernan

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3776 Re:  Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/14/93 08:28 42/ Mark Marino <[e-mail]>
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I cast my vote with Santi.  Imagine PC has been very buggy for me.

Depending on your particular use of memory managers and device drivers,
Imagine can be extremely prone to drop you to DOS (or worse yet, hang
your machine) at seemingly random intervals (I've had it happen when
ALL I was doing was moving the mouse!!!).  Forget trying to use third
party memory managers such as QEMM.  My experience is that this will
cause endless headaches.  Also forget trying to use a combination of
expanded and extended memory.  Imagine will barf every time.  To be
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fair, the Imagine PC release notes mention these problems, but they don't
really give you an adequate solution.  My solution has been to use a
pretty vanilla DOS configuration (only use HIMEM, don't use EMM386).
This prevents me from loading SMARTDRV, but I can live with that.

It would be nice if Impulse fixed these problems so I could run Imagine with
QEMM.  Maybe Imagine PC 3.0...

Besides the hanging problem, I have one other major complaint about
Imagine PC 2.0.  Most of the keyboard shortcuts just don't work.  This
Command:
is a real pain in the butt and slows down productivity.  The main
keyboard shortcuts for transformations and screen re-center work fine,
but if you want to do anything else (attributes, redraw, etc.) you have
to use the pull down menus.  Why this is so, I have no idea.  I get the
feeling that the development team at Impulse (from what I've heard,
it's a team of one) has released a beta-quality product for the PC.  Thier
adamant stance that the PC product is bug-free makes it all the more annoying.

Just my opinion,
Mark
Command:

P.S.  I didn't mention the features that just plain don't work in Imagine
PC, such as font imports, etc.  (I don't want to appear overly
critical).  Imagine is a powerful program with tons of potential and a
great price.  I just hope Impulse addresses some of these issues and
stops treating all the PC complaints as if they were isolated problems.

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                                                                             |
| Mark Marino              | [e-mail]           |  uunet!osf!omar         |
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| Open Software Foundation | 11 Cambridge Center    |  Cambridge, MA 02142    |
|_____________________________________________________________________________|
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3777 Re: Phong shading and stuff
6/14/93 08:40 51/ Byrt Martinez <[e-mail]>
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>
>
> >
> > objects. In one area I would like to blend two objects together, as if
> > one was "pulled" from the other. The two objects are intersecting and
> > separate.
> >
>       Okay....the only way Imagine lets you phong shade is by having each
> part be the same object!  I would reccomend saving the objects seperately
> for safety.  Then make 2 objects 1 when they're together and 1 when
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> they're apart by positioning them and then JOIN'ing them.  Save these
> 2 new objects, and morph them.  That should do it.
>

Okay, I've already tried JOINing the objects together and no go. The lighting
on the objects is way off, or at least the way the light is being reflected off
of the objects. The smaller object closest to the camera reflects light
differently than the larger object that it's supposed to be a part of. On the
smaller object, it is dark at the far end even though the larger object is
still well lit. It's really ugly! I've also tried turning off phong shading and
Command:
the smaller object looks like it is now part of the larger object. Unfortunately,
I lose the smoothness that I need! A royal Catch-22!

About the morphing part you mentioned... isn't that only for animations? Right
now I'm only in the process of creating the object, not an animation. If I can
use morphing, please explain in a little more detail how it could be done.

> > It is especially noticable when viewed from an acute angle. The faceting
> > from the polygons becomes very pronounced. Again, Make soft has no
> > effect. Any clues on why this is happening?
Command:
> >
>       I am not sure if this is due to your slice, but Phong shading has
> kind of a limitiation.  If you have 2 (or more) polygons and view them
> from an angle, you'll get nice smooth shading.  But if you view them
> front on, you'll get a Sillouhette view which shows the polygons along with
> the shading.  Basically, phong shading will interpolate the color and
> make smooth shades along the surface of the polygons, but will not do
> anything for the edges.  If you want smoother edges, you MUST use more
> polygons.  The closer you get to your object, or the larger it becomes
> means you typically need more polygons.
Command:

I think I wasn't too clear as to what Iwas trying to explain. I'm aware of the
edge-on faceting of an object and don't have a problem with it. The problem
comes when an otherwise acceptably shaded object loses its smoothness in the
area where the slice occurred. Maybe if I uuencoded a picture of what I'm
talking about, it would be clearer.


Thanks for the help!

Command:
Byrt Martinez
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3778 Re:  Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/14/93 08:34 34/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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>
> almost everything is different unfortunately.
>
>       works          my system
> ----------------  -----------------
>  20mhz 386          40mhz 386
>  ??? bios           ami bios
>  dos 4.?            dos 5.0
>  4meg memory        16meg memory
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>  several tsrs       only the mouse driver
>  no doskey          no doskey
>
> i might add that i've had no problems with software compatibilty before
> this with my system.  it has ide, stealth vga, wd8003 network, adaptec 1522
> scsi, old targa-16 and soundblaster-16.

There, much better.  If you have problems it always helps to give as much info
as possible.  If I recall, there were some problems with the latest version of
Dos(well, not with Dos, but with Imagine working under that version).  I saw
Command:
something about it on this list.

Do any PC Imagineers remember this?  Get it fixed?  I think it was an early
release of Imagine PC.  I thought I read that someone had gotten it fixed(via
a secret Impulse upgrade).

Good luck,


Tom Setzer
Command:
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3779 Re: Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/14/93 08:54 60/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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> From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
> better programmers, that is for sure... Any Bachelor Degree level
> graphics programmer could create better rendering algorithms
> and any applications programmer could create an easier to use
> interface, but I don't know why Impulse hasn't hired any
> of these programmers...
> -----------------------
Well, get busy... We will anxiously await your improvements ;)
> -------------------------
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>       The worst thing is that when I called Impulse they told me It was the
>       first time somebody complained about bugs in the PC version (IT is not
>       BUGS, IT IS UNUSABLE!!!!).
GRRRRR....Welcome to the wonderful world of Impulse tech support

> True, it hasn't been a success... I think that companies that develop
> for the Amiga need to stop depending on the "comfee chair" that
> Amiga users give them when they make mistakes, because it causes
> developers to (at least the more dishonest and crooked ones)
> ignore potential errors. I really believe that about 50% of the Amiga software
Command:
> that exists, is overpriced for the ammount of obvious effort that
> is put into it.
GRRR...Bite my tongue, suppress flames....and pray those guys in their "comfee
chair" don't leave the Amiga behind....

> -------------------------
> WHat BIOS does you and your friends use??? I wrote a assembly
> program for a professor last semester in 8086 assembly... The
> program worked on all the PC's in our computer lab but
> crashed on his machine. I believe his machine has some finer
Command:
> details in the operating system that caused it to crash.
> There are 256 interrupts in a PC, each interrupt has any number
> of (or 0) subroutines... If one should change, that could
> screw up some programs that use that subroutine. The handling
> on interrupts and the location of the routines in memory
> varies from PC to PC. I would suggest trying it on many different
> machine of different BIOS, operating system revisions
> and possibly system hardware. If it still fails... Then I
> would contact Impulse.

Command:
Tee hee, tee hee....

>That is a tough one.. I would have to have a copy of it myself to
>diagnose it... You could probably DEBUG the binaries and do a trace to
>see where it goes or probably find out where the message is being called
>and find the subroutine...  Chances are the code was compiled
>entirely in C and tracing would be near impossible... But it is worth a
>try..

<Insert favorite outburst of laughter here>
Command:
Oh, stop, my sides are killing me.

Sorry, had a rough morning...;)  I'm better now.


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3780 Re: Fred Fish
6/14/93 12:35 13/ Mark Marino <[e-mail]>
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>   Here are two FTP places I've found with Fred Fish libraries:
>
> ux3.cso.uiuc.edu  (128.174.5.61) -- Fred Fish, AmiNet, other
> nic.funet.fi     (128.214.6.100) -- Fred Fish, LOTS of music, other
>

Excuse my (and I assume others) ignorance, but what exactly are the
Fred Fish libraries?  For any interested parties, they can be found on
ux3.cso.uiuc.edu in directory /amiga/fish.  Now if I only knew what
they were...
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Mark
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3781 Re: Phong shading and stuff
6/14/93 10:03 43/ Wayne Haufler <[e-mail]>
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>> > objects. In one area I would like to blend two objects together, as if
>> > one was "pulled" from the other. The two objects are intersecting and
>> > separate.
>> >
>>      Okay....the only way Imagine lets you phong shade is by having each
>> part be the same object!  I would reccomend saving the objects seperately
>> for safety.  Then make 2 objects 1 when they're together and 1 when
>> they're apart by positioning them and then JOIN'ing them.  Save these
>> 2 new objects, and morph them.  That should do it.
>>
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>
> Okay, I've already tried JOINing the objects together and no go.

It seems to me that phong shading would only work to smooth edges
of adjoining faces; that is, every "real" edge line should be smoothed,
but any "artificial" edge lines formed by intersecting objects
would not be smoothed, even if the intersection was between
two parts of the same object, or two JOINed objects.  It probably
is not enough that they (faces) be part of the same object.

Command:
For smoothing of "artificial" edge lines to work, some collision or
intersection detection algorithm would have to be used, first,
for the renderer to know about the intersection line, before it can be
smoothed.  Does anybody know of a (affordable) renderer that will do this?

Of course, this is only my understanding and reasoning of your problem.

One suggestion might be to do the smoothing of your intersection lines
with a paint program, or an image processing program that can process
a defined region rather than the whole image.  This might could be
Command:
setup to semi-automatically process a whole animation, if the intersection
line doesn't move too much.

This would be a nice affect for pulling something out of a liquid,
since liquids generally adhere some to surfaces (except mercury, perhaps),
and thus look a little blended with the object.

             __
\\ /\\ /\\ //_    Wayne A. Haufler   [Christian/SW Engineer/XWindows/Amigan]
 \/--\// \//__    [e-mail]         McDonnell Douglas-Houston
Command:
     //           Hobby:  "Computer Animations For Christian Endeavors"
                  GodlyGraphics mailing list: [e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3782 Re:  Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/14/93 11:25 13/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        Dos(well, not with Dos, but with Imagine working under that version).  I saw
        something about it on this list.

        Do any PC Imagineers remember this?  Get it fixed?  I think it was an early
        release of Imagine PC.  I thought I read that someone had gotten it fixed(via
        a secret Impulse upgrade).

        Good luck,
----------------------
The only problem that I know about Dos 6.0 is that MS decided to
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bundle stacker into the software as part of the system... there has been
a lot of problems resulting from use of the stacker option..
Otherwise, I don't know..
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3783 Re: Phong shading and stuff
6/14/93 11:22 11/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        comes when an otherwise acceptably shaded object loses its smoothness in the
        area where the slice occurred. Maybe if I uuencoded a picture of what I'm
        talking about, it would be clearer.
---------------------------
Does it look like portions are darker than they should be??? Any wierd
shading??? This could be the problem that my brother disgnosed in
Imagine about 1.5 years ago when I first showed it to him.. Imagine 1.1
has a problem with its phong shading. I think it might have passed
on to later versions as well..

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Can you FTP??
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3784 Fred Fish
6/14/93 13:54 9/ [e-mail] (William E. Costello)
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   Excuse my (and I assume others) ignorance, but what exactly are the
   Fred Fish libraries?  For any interested parties, they can be found on


Lots and lots of interesting pd/shareware software.

William Costello
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3785 Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/14/93 13:52 15/ [e-mail] (William E. Costello)
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   The only problem that I know about Dos 6.0 is that MS decided to
   bundle stacker into the software as part of the system... there has been
   a lot of problems resulting from use of the stacker option..
   Otherwise, I don't know..


---------------------------

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I think the problem with this is that it is not stacker, but
a stacker look-a-like.

William Costello
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3786 stuff
6/14/93 07:57 40/ "Mr. Scott Krehbiel" <[e-mail]>
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I've been using Wavefront recently, and there are features there that
I absolutely LOVE!!  I wonder how difficult it would be to implement
these features in a product like imagine (dream on..)

Anyway, one thing that Wavefront has that I wish Imagine had is
the texture vertex.  Each polygon has a normal at each vertex,
showing which way the polygon faces (simple enough) but you
can smooth an object, making the normals approach each other
from connected polygons.  In effect, this bends your polygons
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so that they connect smoothly (at least as far as the shader is
concerned - it doesn't affect your geometry)  I'm probably getting
the Wave technology all screwed up, but you get the picture...
nice feature.


About the grass field, it seems that a program like Renderman would
be able to tackle this quite easily.  In Renderman, you can import
a model and write a C script telling Renderman how to deform,
texture, replicate, shade, etc. etc. you object.
Command:
You could load in a blade of grass, and have Renderman deform it along
the x axis over a set period, then replicate it, then stretch it
vertically, then place it.  If you tell it to do this repeatedly,
you should be able to create a whole field of tall, short, fat, and
thin grass that all blows in the wind together.  I believe that
Renderman can do these types of things without using up all kinds of
memory on models - instead, you write the object replication into
the shading algorythm somehow.  If you're interested in doing
organic things like trees and fields, you might want to give
Renderman a try.
Command:

BTW: I've been told that Renderman was used (perhaps with some imported
     models) for the Listerine comercial with the bottle swinging
     through the forest (to the tune of Jungle Boy by Baltimora)

Just hoping to stir a few minds about the wide variety of approaches
out there.  Imagine is way cool, but there are other methods of
rendering that you might want to check out.

Scott
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3787 Re: Phong shading and stuff
6/14/93 05:04 36/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
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>
>Sometimes I wish Imagine had some way of using Splines to create
>objects... I mean, make the objects smooth in the first place
>then let you create approximations accoding to how much memory you
>have left... That way, the program could have the capability to create
>more polygons within the area that is visible to the observer and
>all other parts that are invisible or reflected off the objects
>could be given a minimum number of polgons per patch...
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>I wonder if anyone has ever thought about that...
>
>Kiernan
>
>
>

        Yes.  This is actually typical of modelers that are first
polygonal based, and then they add splines.  It's easier to let the
user model with spline patches, but to then break them down in to
Command:
polygons for rendering in the polygon renderer than to make a spline
renderer.  Ususally the user has control over how much detail different
parts have, so curved parts can be smoother.  I have never heard of
a renderer that changes the amount based on the camera/object angle/pos
though it's an interesting idea.

        I believe Toaster 3.0 now supports this as I stated above.
Perhaps Imagine will too...?


Command:

--
+======================================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3788 Re: Phong shading and stuff
6/14/93 16:08 7/ Byrt Martinez <[e-mail]>
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>
> Use Merge, not Join!
>
I've used both, no help!

Byrt

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3789 Re: Phong shading and stuff
6/14/93 08:54 44/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
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>
>Okay, I've already tried JOINing the objects together and no go. The lighting
>on the objects is way off, or at least the way the light is being reflected off
>of the objects. The smaller object closest to the camera reflects light
>differently than the larger object that it's supposed to be a part of. On the
>smaller object, it is dark at the far end even though the larger object is
>still well lit. It's really ugly! I've also tried turning off phong shading and
>the smaller object looks like it is now part of the larger object. Unfortunately,
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>I lose the smoothness that I need! A royal Catch-22!
>
>About the morphing part you mentioned... isn't that only for animations? Right
>now I'm only in the process of creating the object, not an animation. If I can
>use morphing, please explain in a little more detail how it could be done.
>

        Oh... I thought you were trying to do an anim of them pulling
apart.  If not, JOIN them and then try MERGE i think to remove redundant
points.  Other than that, you may have to adjust your lighting.
Command:
You may have to go through point by point to get the objects to trully
attatch and phong shade properly.

>
>I think I wasn't too clear as to what Iwas trying to explain. I'm aware of the
>edge-on faceting of an object and don't have a problem with it. The problem
>comes when an otherwise acceptably shaded object loses its smoothness in the
>area where the slice occurred. Maybe if I uuencoded a picture of what I'm
>talking about, it would be clearer.
>
Command:
>

        Hmm.. you could ftp it wuarchive.  Maybe you need to do that
MERGE on it.  I think whenever you do slices and joins you need to
remerge the points to make the phong shading comes back since sometimes
you will get duplicate points from the operation...



--
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+======================================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3790 Re: Phong shading and stuff
6/14/93 13:07 30/ Wayne Haufler <[e-mail]>
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>> > objects. In one area I would like to blend two objects together, as if
>> > one was "pulled" from the other. The two objects are intersecting and
>> > separate.
>> >
...
I just wrote:
> This would be a nice effect for pulling something out of a liquid,
> since liquids generally adhere some to surfaces (except mercury, perhaps),
> and thus look a little blended with the object.

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Come to think of it, this effect or feature could solve a whole class of
problems, namely modeling segmented objects, like the snake mentioned before,
and jointed objects, like the Cycleman or Humanoid object that is
available commercially.  If the line where two joints or segments intersect
could be smoothed, it would look much more naturally like "skin".
Of course, some user control over the extent of smoothing would be nice.

Perhaps this is partly what is meant by the "bones" feature of Imagine 3.0.
Any guesses or speculations?  Any renderers out there with this
feature?  Real 3D?  Lightwave?  Aladdin?
Command:

Of course, spline-based modeling might be another approach to getting
this effect.

             __
\\ /\\ /\\ //_    Wayne A. Haufler   [Christian/SW Engineer/XWindows/Amigan]
 \/--\// \//__    [e-mail]         McDonnell Douglas-Houston
     //           Hobby:  "Computer Animations For Christian Endeavors"
                  GodlyGraphics mailing list: [e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3791 Re: Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/16/93 09:12 77/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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> From [e-mail] Wed Jun 16 10:21:00 1993
> > for the Amiga need to stop depending on the "comfee chair" that
> > Amiga users give them when they make mistakes, because it causes
> > developers to (at least the more dishonest and crooked ones)
> > ignore potential errors. I really believe that about 50% of the Amiga software
> > that exists, is overpriced for the ammount of obvious effort that
> > is put into it.
> GRRR...Bite my tongue, suppress flames....and pray those guys in their "comfee
> chair" don't leave the Amiga behind....
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> -------------
> Some (if not most) Amiga users complain... I mean, some think it is a
> blessing if they even get to edit 3D objects. If something is wrong, they
> don't complain... some will even advertise the software even if it
> has 20 problems with it... Take for instance DMCS... I was lucky to learn the
> -------------
Let me clairify my GRRRR.  It wasn't the complaining that I was complaining
about.  It was your comment on overpriced software.  Have you taken a look
a the price of MAC software and to a lesser extent, PCsw?  Sure there are really
nice packages out there, high end stuff, that you pay for and is probably worth
Command:
it.  But they got crap that you pay for too.  Here on the Amiga we have programs
like Vista and Scenery Animator for under $100!!!  To me, that is amazing!!!
And they send free(thats right, I said FREE(as well they should)) upgrades when
they make mistakes. I've seen 3D packages on the MAC(can't recall which one)
with half the features that cost twice as much as Imagine(keeping with the topic
of the list).  So, don't get me wrong...ya gotta complain if it don't work. But
ya gotta love it if it do.

> > varies from PC to PC. I would suggest trying it on many different
> > machine of different BIOS, operating system revisions
Command:
> > and possibly system hardware. If it still fails... Then I
> > would contact Impulse.
>
>       Tee hee, tee hee....
> -------------
> Boy you sound like a sorry customer...
> -------------

Sorry that they don't provide better support! ;)

Command:
> >That is a tough one.. I would have to have a copy of it myself to
> >diagnose it... You could probably DEBUG the binaries and do a trace to
> >see where it goes or probably find out where the message is being called
> >and find the subroutine...  Chances are the code was compiled
> >entirely in C and tracing would be near impossible... But it is worth a
> >try..
>
> <Insert favorite outburst of laughter here>
> Oh, stop, my sides are killing me.
>
Command:
> -------------
> Hey, I have traced the bootstrap of MSDOS with complete understanding...
> I know tracing Imagine is near impossible but I was thinking that the problem
> may be something that happens at first, so it may be in at the first 500
> instructions... Then again, the code is not linear and it would be like
> finding a needle in a field of haystacks. It was just a thought.
> What you could probably do is find some way to get the instruction
> in a physical address that was last executed and from that you might be
> able to have a debugging program trace all the way to that point then
> list which were the last instructions to be executed... If the last
Command:

And say you find that MOVE that is writing to NULL or some other illegal address
...???  I mean sure, finding it isn't so bad, maybe...but...now what?  Call
Impulse, and tell them their MOVE is writing to a bad addr?  I'd say your best
bet, as someone pointed out earlier(maybe it was you) is to figure out what
differences there are between the non-working setup and the working setup.
I know some people have gotten it working without having to trace through on the
assembler level.


Command:
Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3792 T3DDD and Icoons question...
6/16/93 10:12 7/ Mark Marino <[e-mail]>
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Are either of these available for the PC platform, or do either come
with source code to compile on the PC platform?

Thanks,
Mark
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3793 Re: Phong shading and stuff
6/16/93 10:23 11/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        As mentioned in my previous post, metaballs are what you want to achieve what
        you are talking about. TDI recently added metaball modeling and rendering to
        their software and if I remember, Prisms has it as well. I forget if Softimage
----------
Like most everything else.. so does Rayshade!!! It has metaballs..
But I don't know about complex object spliting/merging..
/***********************************************************************
** Kiernan Holland, [e-mail], [e-mail] **
** (University Of New Mexico - Los Alamos Branch Computer AIDE)       **
** "If it doesn't work, turn it off/on or ask me to watch."           **
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3794 Re: stuff
6/16/93 09:23 106/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        About the grass field, it seems that a program like Renderman would
        be able to tackle this quite easily.  In Renderman, you can import
        a model and write a C script telling Renderman how to deform,
        texture, replicate, shade, etc. etc. you object.
        You could load in a blade of grass, and have Renderman deform it along
        the x axis over a set period, then replicate it, then stretch it
        vertically, then place it.  If you tell it to do this repeatedly,
--------
Rayshade will do this... Do you remember the photographs that
were shown in a recent (probably 2 years ago) edition of National
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Geographic, where pictures ofrenderings of Mars were made??
That was all done with Rayshade.. I have written a program that
will even let you fly through a world may with rayshade using
paths created on Imagine (not Imagine Paths but contiguous
paths made up of connected vertices).

Rayshade also handles Motion Blur, over 8 kinds of textures,
CSG, ray-tracing/rendering, several primitives including Phong-Shaded
triangles and Altitude maps. It is in Public Domain and can be compiled
on most any UNIX machine. POV is pretty cool too. Renderman
Command:
is better for most things, but for what it is not, Rayshade is!!
--------
        you should be able to create a whole field of tall, short, fat, and
        thin grass that all blows in the wind together.  I believe that
--------
as easy as:

name grass
list
#include "grass.ray"
Command:
end

name line_of_grass
list
object green grass translate 0 0 0
object green grass translate -10 0 0
object green grass translate -20 0 0
object green grass translate -30 0 0
object green grass translate -60 0 0
end
Command:

name field_of_grass
list
object green line_of_grass translate 0 0 0
object green line_of_grass translate 0 -10 0
object green line_of_grass translate 0 -50 0
object green line_of_grass translate 0 -90 0
object green line_of_grass translate 0 -100 0
/* ... */
end
Command:

object green field_of_grass translate 0 0 0
object green field_of_grass translate 0 -110 0
object green field_of_grass translate -70 -110 0
object green field_of_grass translate -70 0 0

eyep 500 500 100
lookp 0 0 0
eyesep .15 /* for 3D renderings */

Command:
/* etc. */
--------------------
        Renderman can do these types of things without using up all kinds of
        memory on models - instead, you write the object replication into
--------------------
Same with Rayshade.
--------------------
        the shading algorythm somehow.  If you're interested in doing
        organic things like trees and fields, you might want to give
        Renderman a try.
Command:
--------------------
My friend Pat McCormick wrote code (not to mention got a parallel
version of Rayshade going) to do forest simulations and
one an award at the nearby Los Alamos National Laboratories.
He has written code to do Smoke/Cloud simulations too.
As soon as we get the Indigos he plans to start back up... If he
does, and when he does, I will see about making an animation
and I will post it to wuarchive...
--------------------
        BTW: I've been told that Renderman was used (perhaps with some imported
Command:
             models) for the Listerine comercial with the bottle swinging
             through the forest (to the tune of Jungle Boy by Baltimora)
--------------------
Yes, and lightsavers, the listerine commercials for fighting tooth
decay, the new minty listerine  (like George of the Jungle... ;-) ),
and the Boxing match, Planters Peanuts (for which Livesavers is
a sub), and I believe the DOW "scrubbing bubbles" commercials too.

The only problem with Renderman is it is slower than hardening
lava... But at least it is as spectacular as lava.
Command:
-------------------
        Just hoping to stir a few minds about the wide variety of approaches
        out there.  Imagine is way cool, but there are other methods of
        rendering that you might want to check out.

        Scott
-------------------
Agreed!!! POV is pretty cool and looks like a Renderman Jr. to me.
Rayshade supports some features that POV may not, that
are particular attractive (like motion blur, bump mapping,
Command:
32-bit image map support, animations, C preprocessor and program
structure embeded in design). Radiance is another one, but it is
harder to learn...

Kiernan
-------------------
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3795 renderman grass
6/16/93 08:26 29/ "Mr. Scott Krehbiel" <[e-mail]>
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I haven't used renderman, so this is all speculation on what I've
heard, but when I took an "intro to renderman" class, I was told
that you can write your own instructions for how an object gets
rendered.  The type of stuff that I'm told you can do with this
is to create a patch of grass, then write a shader that says
whenever you reach x number of units over, look back to this point
to get your color of this other point over here, basically meaning
that you could tile one patch of grass across an entire field, with
hardly any polygons.  If you got good at it, you could use perhaps
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only a couple blades of grass, and create some randomness in your
tiling.  I think it would be possible to also write in perspective
in your shader, so that the grass is tiled in three dimensions, and
recedes properly.
Matter of fact, you might be able to have the shader figure out
what your camera angle is toward one side of a hill, then render
the patch of grass at that angle and place it there, then move on
to the next part of the hill, etc.  The neat thing is that this
would use a minimum of polygons.

Command:
Man!  this is sounding like fun, the more I think about it!  I'm
gonna have to start playing with this program.

Lets see... learn C (no problem)
            Buy Renderman (no problem)
            Buy a Mac   (BIG problem)
   nah... I'll just use the schools computers

Scott
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3796 Re: Icoons
6/16/93 08:50 35/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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|I guess I should mention that Icoons can be found on Aminet in the

        What is Aminet?  Is it a node out there in netland?  Is it a BBS?
        I want ICoons but I don't want to subscribe to a BBS just to get
        it.  Do you know of a node on the Internet where I can find a
        copy?

|
|   gfx/3d
|
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|directory.  Under the name:
|
|  ICoons1.0.lzh
|
|or
|
|  ICoons_Nofp.lzh   for those without an FPU.
|


Command:
       _____________________________^_____________________________
                                  __ __
                                ____ ____
       _____________________________ _____________________________
       dale r. rogers
       afme support
       MailStop: LR24A4
       Tel: [phone]
       [e-mail]

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                                    .




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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3797 Re: Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/16/93 08:18 57/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        > for the Amiga need to stop depending on the "comfee chair" that
        > Amiga users give them when they make mistakes, because it causes
        > developers to (at least the more dishonest and crooked ones)
        > ignore potential errors. I really believe that about 50% of the Amiga software
        > that exists, is overpriced for the ammount of obvious effort that
        > is put into it.
        GRRR...Bite my tongue, suppress flames....and pray those guys in their "comfee
        chair" don't leave the Amiga behind....
-------------
Get the press and pillows... Ya I got the "comfee chair" bit from monty python..
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Some (if not most) Amiga users complain... I mean, some think it is a
blessing if they even get to edit 3D objects. If something is wrong, they
don't complain... some will even advertise the software even if it
has 20 problems with it... Take for instance DMCS... I was lucky to learn the
program but in the initial stages the DMCS users should have torn down
Electronic Arts door. If Impulse is bad enough that they don't answer
their phone and they only have a programming team of one, I would
send complaint letters and contact the better business bureau.
-------------
        > varies from PC to PC. I would suggest trying it on many different
Command:
        > machine of different BIOS, operating system revisions
        > and possibly system hardware. If it still fails... Then I
        > would contact Impulse.

        Tee hee, tee hee....
-------------
Boy you sound like a sorry customer...
-------------
        >That is a tough one.. I would have to have a copy of it myself to
        >diagnose it... You could probably DEBUG the binaries and do a trace to
Command:
        >see where it goes or probably find out where the message is being called
        >and find the subroutine...  Chances are the code was compiled
        >entirely in C and tracing would be near impossible... But it is worth a
        >try..

        <Insert favorite outburst of laughter here>
        Oh, stop, my sides are killing me.

-------------
Hey, I have traced the bootstrap of MSDOS with complete understanding...
Command:
I know tracing Imagine is near impossible but I was thinking that the problem
may be something that happens at first, so it may be in at the first 500
instructions... Then again, the code is not linear and it would be like
finding a needle in a field of haystacks. It was just a thought.
What you could probably do is find some way to get the instruction
in a physical address that was last executed and from that you might be
able to have a debugging program trace all the way to that point then
list which were the last instructions to be executed... If the last
instruction is the target of a jump, there will be no chance in finding the
bug (probably) but if not then the error may happen withinh the last 30
Command:
or 300 or 3000 instructions.  If the code is C and compiled (most likely)
there is no hope in the world that you would find the error unless you
had the original C source code. I think it sucks that Impulse doesn't
beta test (an obvious conclusion) thier software before releasing it.
It is almost as if they hate to find errors.
-------------
        Sorry, had a rough morning...;)  I'm better now.
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3799 icoons
6/16/93 08:32 7/ "Mr. Scott Krehbiel" <[e-mail]>
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What method of spline tesselation does icoons use?  Can you specify
the method?  There are different methods producing very different
results, some more expensive than others in terms of the number
of polygons created.

Scott
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3800 Re: stuff
6/16/93 08:01 24/ "Mr. Scott Krehbiel" <[e-mail]>
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I realize in re-reading my earlier post that I wasn't at all clear
in what I was saying.  I hate it when I do that!

What I was wowed by was the amount of control that Wavefront gives
you over rendering.  I'm still learning this stuff, so pardon me
if I get my facts mixed up, but anyway... in Wave, each vertex
has its own normal, not just each polygon.  That means that you
could take one corner of a square, and rotate its normal, making that
corner face a different direction, not the whole square.  In this
way, adjacent faces are as good as joined when you make their
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vertex normals face the same way, 'cause at the edge where they
join, they are both considered to be facing the same direction.
It's like you can bend a polygon.  The results far exceed anything
I've seen from other shaders.


The neat thing is that you have total control over what's happening
in the shader.  You don't just turn smoothing off and on, you can
set which way each normal points (at least that is what I'm told -
I haven't learned how to do that yet).  Trust me - Imagine can't
Command:
touch this!  Wavefront makes Imagine's renderer look like a bunch
of canned effects.

Scott
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3801 Re: Fred Fish
6/16/93 08:51 61/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        >   Here are two FTP places I've found with Fred Fish libraries:
        >
        > ux3.cso.uiuc.edu  (128.174.5.61) -- Fred Fish, AmiNet, other
        > nic.funet.fi     (128.214.6.100) -- Fred Fish, LOTS of music, other
        >

        Excuse my (and I assume others) ignorance, but what exactly are the
        Fred Fish libraries?  For any interested parties, they can be found on
        ux3.cso.uiuc.edu in directory /amiga/fish.  Now if I only knew what
        they were...
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----------
Are you a PC user?? Is so, forget it you don't apply...

If not,  read on...

Fred Fish is a dude that back in 1986 (when Amiga software was
nearly non-existent) came to a user group meeting and showed off
the programs that he made so far.. At the time, hardly anyone
had written software for the Amiga outside of CBM. What happened
was that Fred got elected to head thier public domain archives...
Command:
To make a long story short, Fred is now the organizer of a 850+
public domain / shareware disk distribution called the Fred
Fish Disk Library.. Amazing Computing maintains a list of all the
programs in his collection in the back of thier magazines and
there are programs like "Aquarium" that do complete database
searches, like "Archie" on the internet does FTP sites...

I'm pretty sure that there isn't a PD library in the whole
world that is as well organized as Fred Fish's. Each disk
comes with documentation on how to get Fred Fish disks,
Command:
a "Contents" document that gives a description of each program on
the disk, a "C" directory that contains commands that are used
to read documents, view animations, play music, view pictures and
decompress files, relating to the context of the disk.
Each Fred Fish disk can carry 880K of programs so 850x880 Kilobytes
is how much storage you need to carry 850 disks of the distribution.
It used to be that you would have to pay 7 bucks to get a copy
of one Fred Fish disk, which is still true if you can't afford the
alternatives... Since the software is Freely Distributable,
there are archives all around the Internet with Fred Fish disks,
Command:
there is also two (?) CDROM disks that contain the entire Fred Fish
distribution but the price is unbelievably low... I think you get a
copy with the 50 dollar SCSI interface CDROM drive support package
that Xetec is selling.

The disks contain GNU distributions, TeX editors, Postscript interpreters,
compilers, games, pictures, animations, music modules (few though),
terminal emulators, paint programs, archiving programs, disk utilities..
You name it, it probably has it. However, there is still a handful of programs
(quite a big handful) that Fred Fish doesn't have in his collection.
Command:
For that we have archives of sites like Aminet and AB20 that contain
many sparsely-documented (as far as Fred Fish disks go) programs like Rend24
and ProTracker. The Aminet and AB20 archives are available in CDROM
form (ofcourse) from Walnut Creek for about 25 bucks apiece (I'm not
sure if they are still selling AB20's archive). If you need thier
phone number, I can probably get you it... However, they should be
pretty easy to find since the places they archive the most exist
on the Internet (via FTP anonymous)... The archives done by Walnut Creek
are so well known that they tend to be the primary part of most users'
CDROM libraries now.
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3802 renderman... pd??
6/16/93 07:10 17/ "Mr. Scott Krehbiel" <[e-mail]>
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I was asked if Renderman is pd, and no, I'm afraid it's quite
hefty in price.  The Unix version costs a couple thousand, from
what I've heard, which is nothing compared to what.. $50,000
for Wavefront,  but too expensive for the curious hobbyist.

Renderman also has a version for the Mac, and it uses the same
command language, so you can kinda preview stuff on the Mac, then
do your real work on a workstation.  I have no idea how much the
Mac version costs.
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That is a good point that was brought up, though... there's so much
cool PD stuff that you can script for...  eh heck!  Get Rayshade
and see what you can do with that!  Then, if you like scripting,
spring for Renderman (and a Unix box to run it on)

Scott
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3803 Re: Phong shading and stuff
6/16/93 05:22 17/ [e-mail] (Stephen Menzies)
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Mark Thompson <[e-mail]> writes:

>What works VERY nicely for this kind of stuff is metaballs. They are also known
>as blobby objects or iso-surfaces. Metaballs are like blobs of goo that when
>in contact with other metaballs, automatically form a smooth junction. They
>are invaluable for modeling organic objects. A human form can be built with
>a few dozen metaballs with extreme ease.

One may remember a publicity image published in CGW slightly over a year
ago of a female torso done with metaballs. I believe this is the torso
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referred to in the recent CGW article on Metaball technology that required
only 43 metaballs.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
\\\Stephen Menzies, TFX Animation Inc., TAARNA Systems, Montreal, Qc.///
[[]] [e-mail] [[]] [e-mail] [[]] [e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3804 Re: Phong shading and stuff
6/16/93 05:15 24/ [e-mail] (Stephen Menzies)
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Mark Thompson <[e-mail]> writes:

>As mentioned in my previous post, metaballs are what you want to achieve what
>you are talking about. TDI recently added metaball modeling and rendering to
>their software and if I remember, Prisms has it as well. I forget if Softimage
>does. But no, no PC based software has this capability. Bones in Imagine
>are likely a copy of what they are in LW, a means to put a skeletal structure
>inside an object and deform the object based on the movements of the skeleton.

The recent Computer Graphics World article on Metaball technology states
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that SoftImage Image has incorporated V-Clay of Magic-Box,CA, into ver2.6
as "Meta-Clay". Apparently the advantage of V-Clay is that it can render
with scanline algorithms and from what I understand, can be hardware
shaded in real-time during the modelling process.
No mention though of whether they have a solution to incapability of
of metaball technology to accept texture-coordinates (pretty big problem),
though I would expect that a metaball object could be converted to a
mesh.

--
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\\\Stephen Menzies, TFX Animation Inc., TAARNA Systems, Montreal, Qc.///
[[]] [e-mail] [[]] [e-mail] [[]] [e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3805 Re: Phong shading and stuff
6/15/93 12:46 22/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
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>
>As mentioned in my previous post, metaballs are what you want to achieve what
>you are talking about. TDI recently added metaball modeling and rendering to
>their software and if I remember, Prisms has it as well. I forget if Softimage
>does. But no, no PC based software has this capability. Bones in Imagine
>are likely a copy of what they are in LW, a means to put a skeletal structure
>inside an object and deform the object based on the movements of the skeleton.
>
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        Actually the copy of PoV-Ray I grabbed a couple of weeks ago for
my 486 has metaballs implemented as far as i can tell.  It may not be
that fancy, but they're there!



--
+======================================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
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+======================================================================+
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3806 Icoons
6/15/93 13:33 19/ [e-mail] (Jeffrey Walkup)
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> Icoons isn't a bad little program, and I think with a little work it
> could be very usable.

I guess I should mention that Icoons can be found on Aminet in the

   gfx/3d

directory.  Under the name:

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  ICoons1.0.lzh

or

  ICoons_Nofp.lzh   for those without an FPU.

--
Jeff Walkup, Digital Animator / Videographer | Energy = Matter = Spacetime
 [e-mail] - San Francisco   |         ERLEICHDA!
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3807 An Imagine question (I use Microstation at work)
6/15/93 13:13 28/ [e-mail] (Thorne Kontos)
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Greetings,
     Can someone point me towards an Imagine FAQ? I was wondering
about its capabilities, in particular its ability to do work with
splines. I have Microstation and ModelView on my system at work
and occasionally get a chance to play around with it.
     I have done a complete chess set and board and can put up an
RGB/TIFF/GIF file on wuarchive.wustl.edu if anyone is interested.
I am not quite happy with the knights I have done, but they work
with the rest of the pieces I designed. I have also done some geometric
figures (early attempts at 3D modeling). I can convert the design file
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(Intergraph's proprietary format (.dgn) to the format used by AutoCad
and someone can take it from there if they want to fool around with the
models.
     My only complaint with ModelView is it lacks multiple light
sources and some of the subprograms (Escher in particular) tend to be
somewhat buggy at times. This program can animate but as I have seen
animations on my Amiga, I can honestly say the Amiga sometimes puts
the workstation generated animations to shame.
     I want to try to do a reasonable comparison between Imagine and
Intergraph's programs so I can decide which to buy (I get a hefty
Command:
employee discount and may get Microstation as it does a large number
of functions. I post a list of Microstation/ModelView's capabilities
if anyone is interested...

                                             Thanks,
                                             Thorne K. Kontos
                                             Intergraph A.P.D.

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3808 Seagate 3600A for DPS PAR, mailing list deal.
6/15/93 12:39 74/ David [e-mail], GraphX head <[e-mail]>
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> I hate to make a plug, but if people are planning on getting a drive for
> the DPS Personal Animation Recorder... I strongly suggest you get in touch
> with the company I work for...


Welp, I asked for it I guess.

I have been flooded with requests for pricing information on this drive, so
I will post a general reply and not a direct one to each individual.
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The Situation:

Cranel Inc., is a distributor of mass storage and imaging products.  Cranel
sells almost exclusively to VARs (Value Added Resellers) and VADs (Value
Added Dealers) in the Unix storage and DOS/Windows - OS/2 imagine markets.

Cranel, as a distributor, does not sell into any Amiga markets directly, and
there are currently no Cranel VAD/VAR customers servicing Amiga customers.
Command:

As a unique situation, and as a personal project, I am providing a quote on
a storage product to my fellow Amiga users and graphics artist.

I am recieving _no_ commission or compensation for this, which is why I don't
have a problem with this article.  It is merely a gesture of friendship to
those of you I talk to through Email, mailing lists, newgroups, or in person.
It is also my little bit to help service a platform that gets nothing but
disrespect from the markets Cranel services everyday.

Command:
If I can just get someone like HP to notice that a few of their drives are
being sold to Amiga owners I will have accomplished something.


The Quote:

The only drive to have been qualified on the DPS Personal Animation Recorder
so far has been the Seagate 3600A.

The 3600A is a 540MB formatted IDE drive
Command:
It has a 10.5ms average seek for reads and a 12ms average seek for writes.
It is rated at 200k power hours between failure and draws 5.5watts idle.
The drive runs at 5,411RPM for a average lantency of 5.54ms.
It is a low-profile drive with dimmensions of; 1" high, 4" wide, 5.75" deep,
and it is 1.65lbs.
It has a 256KB multisegmented cache and a 2 year warrenty.
(This is all from the spec sheet)

The price is $750 plus shipping and must be done COD, Visa, or Mastercard.
No terms.
Command:

You must be a current member of one of the Amiga related mailing lists
at this time to be able to get it at this price.  This is merely to limit
the scope of who is involved.

I would like to publicly ask the administrators of these list if they could
send me a current subscription list to help keep things fair.

If you are interested you should get in touch with me through Email at:
[e-mail]
Command:


This unique situation does not apply to any current or future Cranel
customers that are already being represented by a Cranel salesperson.

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
Command:
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3809 MPEG converter
6/15/93 11:37 11/ Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>
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Hi all,

I am working on a rather large 256 color anim5 anim and I would like
to also create an Mpeg animation so I can upload it.

Is there a PD/shareware MPEG creation program for the PC or the Amiga?

Any leads would be appreciated,

Adam B.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3810 What is IDE
6/15/93 12:43 6/ [e-mail] (Heberle H.)
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What's about   .... Internal Data Error
Horst Heberle
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3811 Re:  Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/15/93 10:27 39/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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From [e-mail] Sun Jun 13 16:05:38 1993
From: [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)
Subject: Re:  Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
To: [e-mail] (Elmer Beachley)
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 93 14:22:49 PDT
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>; from "Elmer Beachley" at Jun 12, 93 8:12 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.2 PL14]

>
> Kiernan:
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>
> I've tried booting without any drivers except the mouse, so while I do
> use FTP and NFS normally, there is no software active when I try imagine.
>
> After I start imagine it reads the disk but I never get the startup picture
> on the VGA.  I think I tried changing the name of the startup picture
> to see if I got an error message, and as I remember, I did not.
>
> So I'm pretty much stumped.  I don't have the time right now for low level
> debugging.  Thanks for your ideas.
Command:
>
Make sure you're using the latest version of the mouse driver!  A friend of
mine tried out the package, and couldn't get it to work until he upgraded
to version 8.something of the Microsoft driver.

Use VESA drivers.  My VESA Local Bus card has them built in, but I bet yours
does not.  UNIVESA, available on an FTP site near you, adds VESA capability
to almost any SVGA card.

You do have a FP system, right?  You need at least a 386 system with Floating
Command:
Point support.

Wouldn't it be nice if Impulse were on the net passing this info around?  I
suggest that the keeper of the FAQ start a section on "I got Impulse PC and
it don't work, what do I do?".  :-)

> Elmer
>
_john
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3812 Re: Phong shading and stuff
6/15/93 11:11 39/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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|
|There is a shareware 3D modeller called "Icoons" that does exactly this.
|It lets you model with splines, and then breaks the curves down into
|polygons for rendering.  The modelling works a lot like
|Journeyman/Playmation, (in fact, it reads JMan objects), it will output
|to T3D for conversion to Imagine.  The detail level is adjustable (the
|number of points/polys on each curve), but of course it is not adaptive
|- once you save the object, it's written in stone.  Of course, you could
|save several versions of the object with varying levels of detail, and
|use the more detailed versions when the camera is closer, etc etc... to
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|sort of do the adaptive method manually.
|
|Icoons isn't a bad little program, and I think with a little work it
|could be very usable.
|

        Speaking of which.  Where can I get Icoons (please include the
        TCP/IP address)?

        Dale
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       _____________________________^_____________________________
                                  __ __
                                ____ ____
       _____________________________ _____________________________
       dale r. rogers
       afme support
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       MailStop: LR24A4
       Tel: [phone]
       [e-mail]

                                    .




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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3813 Re: Phong shading and stuff
6/15/93 09:44 14/ [e-mail] (Jeffrey Walkup)
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> Perhaps this is partly what is meant by the "bones" feature of Imagine 3.0.
> Any guesses or speculations?  Any renderers out there with this
> feature?  Real 3D?  Lightwave?  Aladdin?

Don't know much about the 'bones' in Imagine 3.0, but in LW 3.0, the
bones are applied to a single object.  As far as I've seen (very
little), you can't deform groups of separate objects with a single bone.
You can, of course, model an object in several pieces, but they need to
be joined together to be used as a 'boned' object.
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--
Jeff Walkup, Digital Animator / Videographer | Energy = Matter = Spacetime
 [e-mail] - San Francisco   |         ERLEICHDA!
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3814 Re: Phong shading and stuff
6/15/93 08:41 13/ Byrt Martinez <[e-mail]>
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> Keep a watchfull eye on this stuff as it is showing a lot of promise, esp. the
> super metaballs which are setup in a hierarchy that specifies which metaballs
> can affect each other.

> Modeling with metaballs is the tough part right now.  One could make an
> impact be designing and writing a metaball modeler that was easy to use.

Actually, there's an article in the current Computer Graphics World (?) about
metaballs and super metaballs. Looks interesting, though didn't get a chance
to read it.
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Byrt Martinez

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3815 Re: Phong shading and stuff
6/15/93 07:07 17/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
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> It's easier to let the user model with spline patches, but to then break
> them down in to polygons for rendering in the polygon renderer than to
> make a spline renderer.
>       I believe Toaster 3.0 now supports this

Yes, it does. However, LightWave never sees the spline patches. All polygon
tessellation is done in Modeler with a user definable polygon density. I
prefer patch subdivision to occur adaptively at render time, but the current
LW approach is probably faster (not to mention easier to add to the existing
software).
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%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3816 Re: stuff
6/15/93 06:59 24/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
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> Anyway, one thing that Wavefront has that I wish Imagine had is
> the texture vertex.  Each polygon has a normal at each vertex,
> showing which way the polygon faces (simple enough) but you
> can smooth an object, making the normals approach each other
> from connected polygons.

This is precisely what phong shading does. It sounds to me that Wavefront
is merely giving you a little more control over how the abutting normals are
averaged together.

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> About the grass field,

Creating or replicating any sort of geometry for grass would be crazy, it
requires FAR too many primitives. Instead, some sort of procedural rendering
technique using fractals, particle systems, etc. is much better suited to
the task without waisting billions of polygons. There are several Siggraph
papers that illustrate and describe these methods.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
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%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3817 Re: Phong shading and stuff
6/15/93 07:15 18/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
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> >> > objects. In one area I would like to blend two objects together, as if
> >> > one was "pulled" from the other.
> Perhaps this is partly what is meant by the "bones" feature of Imagine 3.0.
> Any renderers out there with this feature?

As mentioned in my previous post, metaballs are what you want to achieve what
you are talking about. TDI recently added metaball modeling and rendering to
their software and if I remember, Prisms has it as well. I forget if Softimage
does. But no, no PC based software has this capability. Bones in Imagine
are likely a copy of what they are in LW, a means to put a skeletal structure
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inside an object and deform the object based on the movements of the skeleton.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
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%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3818
6/14/93 23:46 25/ [e-mail] (Marcelino Vilaubi)
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>        Hmm.. you could ftp it wuarchive.  Maybe you need to do that
>MERGE on it.  I think whenever you do slices and joins you need to
>remerge the points to make the phong shading comes back since sometimes
>you will get duplicate points from the operation...

   Yes, first put the objects into the proper orientation, slice
them and delete the excess objects that are created. You can then join
the objects together and perform a merge to get rid of excess points.
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Turn on phong shading and the seam where your objects meet will be smooth.
If there are any problems with shading you may try editing the attributes
and rendering again. If the two objects had different attributes they
will now be the same. Also, I have tried performing multiple merges
in a row on the same object with the point count dropping sometimes.
This doesn't always work, but sometimes it will cure phong problems.

I have used the slice and merge method and it works like a charm for me.

Good luck.
Command:

Mars

---
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3819 Re: Phong shading and stuff
6/15/93 05:57 55/ David [e-mail], GraphX head <[e-mail]>
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> From [e-mail] Tue Jun 15 01:53:19 1993
> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 93 15:07:34 CDT
> From: Wayne Haufler <[e-mail]>

> >> > objects. In one area I would like to blend two objects together, as if
> >> > one was "pulled" from the other. The two objects are intersecting and
> >> > separate.
> >> >
> ...
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> I just wrote:
> > This would be a nice effect for pulling something out of a liquid,
> > since liquids generally adhere some to surfaces (except mercury, perhaps),
> > and thus look a little blended with the object.
>
> Come to think of it, this effect or feature could solve a whole class of
> problems, namely modeling segmented objects, like the snake mentioned before,
> and jointed objects, like the Cycleman or Humanoid object that is
> available commercially.  If the line where two joints or segments intersect
> could be smoothed, it would look much more naturally like "skin".
Command:

There is a lot of work being done with implicit surfaces, a.k.a. metaballs.
Metaballs can be thought of as CSG spheres, or maybe balls of gas, which have
a density that increases as you get closer to the center.  The renderer has
a specified density and as soon as you go above it, i.e. close enough to the
center, the pixel gets colored the color of the object.
From this you can see that two metaballs which are close to each other can
jointly affect the density between them, usually in an additive way.  This
will make two metaballs blend into each other similar to water or mercury,
with out the surface tension bringing them together of course.
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Keep a watchfull eye on this stuff as it is showing a lot of promise, esp. the
super metaballs which are setup in a hierarchy that specifies which metaballs
can affect each other.

> Of course, some user control over the extent of smoothing would be nice.

Modeling with metaballs is the tough part right now.  One could make an
impact be designing and writing a metaball modeler that was easy to use.

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> Perhaps this is partly what is meant by the "bones" feature of Imagine 3.0.
> Any guesses or speculations?  Any renderers out there with this
> feature?  Real 3D?  Lightwave?  Aladdin?

I wish.

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

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--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3820 Re: stuff
6/15/93 05:58 56/ David [e-mail], GraphX head <[e-mail]>
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> From [e-mail] Mon Jun 14 19:17:28 1993
> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 10:57:06 -0400
> From: "Mr. Scott Krehbiel" <[e-mail]>

> I've been using Wavefront recently, and there are features there that
> I absolutely LOVE!!  I wonder how difficult it would be to implement
> these features in a product like imagine (dream on..)

I wouldn't want it's price.
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> Anyway, one thing that Wavefront has that I wish Imagine had is
> the texture vertex.  Each polygon has a normal at each vertex,

just like every 3D package.

> showing which way the polygon faces (simple enough) but you
> can smooth an object, making the normals approach each other
> from connected polygons.  In effect, this bends your polygons
> so that they connect smoothly (at least as far as the shader is
Command:
> concerned - it doesn't affect your geometry)

Unless I am missing something you were just wow'ed by phong shading which
most software has, including imagine.
It is easy to calculate the exact illumination at the vertices because you
know what the normal vector is at that point and how it relates to any and
all light sources.  The problem is the area within the boundries of the
polygons.  One form of smooth shading, Gaurand (pronounced Gaarow), calculates
the illumination at the vertices and then linearly interpolates these
illumination values across the polygon.  It is fast, which is why you are
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seeing it used it more and more video games (mostly flight simulators), but
it is prone to some shading errors.
Phong shading is more accurate, but a lot slower, and it consists of
interpolating the normal vectors and not the illumination values.  This sounds
like what you were looking at, interpolating the normal vectors of the vertices
across the polygon and between connected polygons.

> Just hoping to stir a few minds about the wide variety of approaches
> out there.  Imagine is way cool, but there are other methods of
> rendering that you might want to check out.
Command:

If you are doing production work, you are crazy if you don't keep up on
developements in software on all platforms.  CG is not a religion, so don't
loose focus of the goal which is to produce the highest quality work possible
with the least amount of cost burden to yourself.  So explore everything you
can get your hands on.

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-
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--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3821 Re: Phong shading and stuff
6/15/93 06:48 28/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
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> >> > In one area I would like to blend two objects together, as if
> >> > one was "pulled" from the other. The two objects are intersecting and
> >> > separate.
> It seems to me that phong shading would only work to smooth edges
> of adjoining faces

Correct. Phong shading is simply surface normal averaging and interpolation.
If the two surfaces are not connected, the normals cannot be averaged and
interpolated. What you need to do is modify your surface geometry and joining
or merging will not do that. Instead, you must use booleans to add the
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surfaces together and then possibly subdivide the resulting polygons in the
area of intersection. This should allow phong interpolation to be done. You
may further wish to use something like the magnet tool to manually smooth the
geometry at the intersection, especially if any polygon angles get too acute,
ie. less than 90 degrees.

What works VERY nicely for this kind of stuff is metaballs. They are also known
as blobby objects or iso-surfaces. Metaballs are like blobs of goo that when
in contact with other metaballs, automatically form a smooth junction. They
are invaluable for modeling organic objects. A human form can be built with
Command:
a few dozen metaballs with extreme ease.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3822 Re: icoons
6/16/93 10:23 20/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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From [e-mail] Wed Jun 16 11:54:51 1993
From: [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)
Subject: Re: icoons
To: [e-mail] (Mr. Scott Krehbiel)
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 10:12:37 PDT
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>; from "Mr. Scott Krehbiel" at Jun 16, 93 11:32 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.2 PL14]

>
>
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> What method of spline tesselation does icoons use?  Can you specify
> the method?  There are different methods producing very different
> results, some more expensive than others in terms of the number
> of polygons created.
>
Icoons is PD, with source.  I bet you could get it and see!  :-)

> Scott
>
_john
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3823 Re: stuff
6/16/93 10:19 33/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        > About the grass field,

        Creating or replicating any sort of geometry for grass would be crazy, it
        requires FAR too many primitives. Instead, some sort of procedural rendering
        technique using fractals, particle systems, etc. is much better suited to
        the task without waisting billions of polygons. There are several Siggraph
        papers that illustrate and describe these methods.
-----------
Ya, and I suppose you can write us the code to do it??
I serriously doubt it... If so, it would take you several weeks..
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It is much easier to replicate objects.. Besides, you really aren't
using up memory like you would if you were actually copying objects...
You load only the primitives of one object, then the ray-tracer
(I suppose) treats duplicates as one in the same, just instantiated and
morphed elsewhere.. There was a animation I saw where some instantiated
several manequins on unicycles to infinity... Don't tell me it
is crazy...

I have made an army of 80 soldiers each with 10,000 polygons using
rayshade and a typical render at 1280x1024 would take about two or
Command:
three hours.. Each soldier was the same. What would be hard is
to simulate grass with polgons... It is simpler to use fractals and
particle systems, it wouldn't require more memory than just
the algorithms to describe the objects, but using polygons is
not as bad as making multiple copies like in Imagine, because
it has no way of instantiating objects, which really SUCKS!!...

(How do you like my new .sig??)
/***********************************************************************
** Kiernan Holland, [e-mail], [e-mail] **
Command:
** (University Of New Mexico - Los Alamos Branch Computer AIDE)       **
** "If it doesn't work, turn it off/on or ask me to watch."           **
***********************************************************************/
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3824 Re: Phong shading and stuff
6/16/93 10:57 26/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        One may remember a publicity image published in CGW slightly over a year
        ago of a female torso done with metaballs. I believe this is the torso
        referred to in the recent CGW article on Metaball technology that required
        only 43 metaballs.
----------
Yes, I was thinking about that when they said Metaballs..
All metaballs are is particles with specific mass and gravitational force
that cause globule objects to be formed by attracting material
of other metaball particles.. Rayshade has support for it...
Rayshade also has support for intersecting, union and differences
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of two objects (true boolean objects).
I guess metaballs are a rendering program's idea of jaggy free
elements.
----------
        \\\Stephen Menzies, TFX Animation Inc., TAARNA Systems, Montreal, Qc.///
        [[]] [e-mail] [[]] [e-mail] [[]] [e-mail]
----------
Hey, I didn't know you were still around here... Have you made any
more pictures? Loved that Flower you did in Amiga World. Would be nice
to see how you did that, I mean like a tutorial... Will you be
Command:
doing any of that stuff in the future?
/***********************************************************************
** Kiernan Holland, [e-mail], [e-mail] **
** (University Of New Mexico - Los Alamos Branch Computer AIDE)       **
** "If it doesn't work, turn it off/on or ask me to watch."           **
***********************************************************************/
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3825 Re: Phong shading and stuff
6/16/93 10:28 26/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        >       I believe Toaster 3.0 now supports this as I stated above.
        > Perhaps Imagine will too...?

        There is a shareware 3D modeller called "Icoons" that does exactly this.
        It lets you model with splines, and then breaks the curves down into
        polygons for rendering.  The modelling works a lot like
------------
And it is incredibly impossible to learn how to use.. I gave up on it.
------------
        Journeyman/Playmation, (in fact, it reads JMan objects), it will output
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        to T3D for conversion to Imagine.  The detail level is adjustable (the
        number of points/polys on each curve), but of course it is not adaptive
        - once you save the object, it's written in stone.  Of course, you could
        save several versions of the object with varying levels of detail, and
        use the more detailed versions when the camera is closer, etc etc... to
        sort of do the adaptive method manually.

        Icoons isn't a bad little program, and I think with a little work it
        could be very usable.
------------
Command:
Yes, make that much more work... The Amiga version is near impossible..
/***********************************************************************
** Kiernan Holland, [e-mail], [e-mail] **
** (University Of New Mexico - Los Alamos Branch Computer AIDE)       **
** "If it doesn't work, turn it off/on or ask me to watch."           **
***********************************************************************/
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3826 Re: MPEG converter
6/16/93 10:49 34/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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-----
        I am working on a rather large 256 color anim5 anim and I would like
        to also create an Mpeg animation so I can upload it.

        Is there a PD/shareware MPEG creation program for the PC or the Amiga?
-------------
You don't want to do that with 256 colors even... Besides MPEG
is almost the same as JPEGing frames and packing (not quite, MPEG
also does some form of delta compression)... That is what I do, I JPEG my
animations before hand then I pack them... On some programs you can't do
this, but if you can write an Arexx program to do so, it would
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be better than puting it first into ANIM5 format. There might be some
way to split a ANIM5 animation into individually JPEG'd frames using
Rend24. I am using REND24 to put Anim5 Animations together from
hundreds of JPEG'd frames. It takes a while to put an animation
together, but it is worth it. For instance, last night I rendered
(finally) my roller coaster animation (390 frames) as a ANIM5
animation using Rend24, and it took about 4 hours to make the animation.
Completed it was about 3.5 megs... In jpeg form it was about 2 megs.
But the color resolution was full 24-bit color on the JPEG's frames
(well 24-bit is not realistic, more like what your eye can ultimately
Command:
perceive). The animation I made from the JPEG'd frames was HAM and
320x200.. You could just as easily made a HAM8 animation out of it
just by selecting the HAM8 format from Rend24... Remember Rend24
is in Shareware, so you should be able to find it.

Thanks all for helping me find that REND24, it has worked wonders
for me..

- Kiernan
/***********************************************************************
Command:
** Kiernan Holland, [e-mail], [e-mail] **
** (University Of New Mexico - Los Alamos Branch Computer AIDE)       **
** "If it doesn't work, turn it off/on or ask me to watch."           **
***********************************************************************/
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3827 A general question
6/16/93 12:53 14/ JHAIGH at CSOMPOB1 <[e-mail]
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          Q:  How is possible that so many people are able to
          SUBSCRIBE to IML using the correct address? (We are not
          always getting requests to subscribe through the list), but
          cannot figure out how to UNSCRIBE - even after being told
          MANY, MANY times how to do so?

          I am feeling empathy for Dave W. - who, time and time again
          has told people how to unscribe, only to be IGNORED!!

          Don't get me wrong, I enjoy being a member of the list and
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          have learned alot, but feel the VERY LEAST we can do is to
          follow a few simple procedures.  Don't you??  So, let's get
          with it and UNSCRIBE in the right way.

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3828 Grass
6/16/93 12:05 11/ [e-mail]
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The script based Amiga rendering program Raydance can create a field of
grass using a "cloning" technique. If you can get ahold of a copy of
the old Avid magazine, Vol 3 , Issue 5, it has a picture on the cover
of a patch of grass created with RayDance. Note that I have not owner
(owner-->owned) or used RayDance, I'm just repeating the info given in
the "About the Cover" box.

                            Scott Corley


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3829 Re: MPEG converter
6/16/93 13:23 27/ Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>
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        I am working on a rather large 256 color anim5 anim and I would like
        to also create an Mpeg animation so I can upload it.

        Is there a PD/shareware MPEG creation program for the PC or the Amiga?
-------------
>You don't want to do that with 256 colors even... Besides MPEG
>is almost the same as JPEGing frames and packing (not quite, MPEG
>also does some form of delta compression)...

Opps, I should have been more clear.  I am creating a 256 color
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anim5 anim for the Amiga people (well, now I am starting to think
about just making a ham-6 anim5, but I digress)  I also want to
make an MPEG movie for the MAC and PC folks I will be sending this
anim to.  All my initial frames are IFF24, I'll use Imagemaster to
convert them to 256color and it looks like I have a PD PC program that
encodes 256color GIFS into MPEG movies.  So I will use Imagemaster to
write out the ANIM-5 along with 400 GIF images so I can load them
into this PC MPEG encoder.... Should only take about a week 8^)

I could convert the IFF24's to targa then into this MPEG encoder but
Command:
that would mean moving some serious amounts of data between my 4000
and the PC.  Probably not worth the extra time it would take.

Thanks,

Adam B

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3830 Re: icoons
6/16/93 11:53 75/ [e-mail] (Jeffrey Walkup)
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> What method of spline tesselation does icoons use?  Can you specify
> the method?  There are different methods producing very different
> results, some more expensive than others in terms of the number
> of polygons created.


From the Icoons docs:

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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ICoons is based on a special type  of  curves  called  "Kochanek-Bartels
splines", these splines has the following properties:

     They pass through their control points (called knots),

     It is possible to control the local behaviour of the spline at each
     knot,  by   varying  three  parameters  called  TENSION,  BIAS  and
     CONTINUITY.

Command:
It is possible to model nearly any curve by placing knots and  modifying
these three parameters at each knot.

[...]

The surfaces created by ICoons, are so called bicubically blended  Coons
surfaces,  such  a  surface  is  fully defined by its (up to) 4 boundary
curves.  The points on the surface  is  found  simply  by  interpolation
between these boundary curves.

Command:
     The surface is defined fully by the boundary curves, this mean that
     there's no control points inside the surface.   (The  more  popular
     Bezier  surfaces  has  internal  control  points.   It  can be very
     difficult for the user to visualize where these controlpoints are).

     The surface interpolates (ie. passes through) the  boundary  curves
     and the control points.

Together these two  'features'  makes  it  semi-easy  for  the  user  to
visualize the surface by looking on the boundary curves.
Command:

In ICoons, a surface is made up of patches: Each patch (which is a Coons
surface) is defined by the 2, 3 or  4  connected  spline  segments  that
surround it. These segments must not all be from the same spline.

If there's more than 4 segments, then the area defined by  the  segments
don't define a patch, even if the segments comes from different patches.

[...]

Command:
Generate - TTDDD format                         (Shortcut: LAMiga-S)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Generate a file containing a TTDDD description of  the  current  object.
Each  patch will be cut up in a N * N of triangles where N is the "Patch
resolution" parameter from the configuration window.

A little N creates small and fast objects, while a big N creates objects
which follow the corresponding splines much nicer.

[etc...]
Command:

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Hope that answers your question!

Not a bad little program - though it could use an "UNDO" function.

There are NTSC and PAL versions in the archive.

The author says he probably won't have time to work on it further,
Command:
though the SOURCE CODE is included.

--
Jeff Walkup, Digital Animator / Videographer | Energy = Matter = Spacetime
 [e-mail] - San Francisco   |         ERLEICHDA!
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3831 RE: MPEG converter
6/16/93 14:27 39/ [e-mail]
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> You don't want to do that with 256 colors even... Besides MPEG
> is almost the same as JPEGing frames and packing (not quite, MPEG
> also does some form of delta compression)...

Actually I beleive that the main difference between the two is that the
compression method used by MPEG is not symetrical. ie it takes more to compress
than to decompress. Faster Playback ?


> That is what I do, I JPEG my
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> animations before hand then I pack them... On some programs you can't do
> this, but if you can write an Arexx program to do so, it would
> be better than puting it first into ANIM5 format. There might be some
> way to split a ANIM5 animation into individually JPEG'd frames using
> Rend24. I am using REND24 to put Anim5 Animations together from
> hundreds of JPEG'd frames.

So are you saying that you render a load of pictures convert them to JPEG
Then put them into an ANIM5 file ? If so can a normal ANIM5 player play
the JPEGed anim back, and what sort of frame rate do you get ?
Command:


> .. rest deleted


Is this a frequently used method?
Has anyone got any examples?


Jason
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+----------------------------  -   -   -  -
|  Signature Under Construction ...
|

|

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3832 POV- where?
6/16/93 13:26 16/ "Rob (R.D.) Hounsell" <[e-mail]>
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Folks,

  I've already got Rayshade, but I wanted to have a look at PoV. Archie found
it at nestroy.wu-wien.ac.at under /pub/src/Graphics, but the PoV directory has
the wrong permissions for me to look at it.  Any ideas?

Thx
Rob
--
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| Rob Hounsell                           BNR WAN:  HOUNSELL@NMERH53           |
| Team Leader: UNIX                      INTERNET: [e-mail]            |
| Global Product Performance:            PHONE: [phone]                |
| Paradigm Club Development. Dept. PS27  ESN: 395-2904                        |
| Northern Telecom Public Switching                                           |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3833 POV- where?
6/16/93 14:44 8/ [e-mail]
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I know pov can be found at ftp.wustl.edu, under (and don't quote me)
/pub/graphics/graphics/ray

but I must warn you that wuarchive is down until friday June 18.

William Costello
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3834 Re:  Grass
6/16/93 15:13 57/ "Charles Congdon, DEC Products Division, [phone]" <CC
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>> About the grass field,
>
>   Creating or replicating any sort of geometry for grass would be crazy, it
>  requires FAR too many primitives. Instead, some sort of procedural rendering
>  technique using fractals, particle systems, etc. is much better suited to
>  the task without waisting billions of polygons. There are several Siggraph
>  papers that illustrate and describe these methods.
>  -----------
>  Ya, and I suppose you can write us the code to do it??
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>  I serriously doubt it... If so, it would take you several weeks..
>  It is much easier to replicate objects.. Besides, you really aren't
>  using up memory like you would if you were actually copying objects...
>  You load only the primitives of one object, then the ray-tracer
>  (I suppose) treats duplicates as one in the same, just instantiated and
>  morphed elsewhere.. There was a animation I saw where some instantiated
>  several manequins on unicycles to infinity... Don't tell me it
>  is crazy...

        Let's be clear here.  For each replicated object you need to store at
Command:
least postion/scale/and orientation triplets.  Extras could include also
storing a world-space bounding volume and any surface attributes that change
from copy to copy.  When the renderer figures out that it needs to do a
rigorous intersection test with a replicated object, it will make
the appropriate coordinate transforms to object space and use the results for
the scanline or ray interestion test.  Only one copy of the actual points is
needed.

        In the case of a manequins, this will save lots of RAM since the
information for each replicated object will use *much* less space than complete
Command:
object descriptions.  But in the case of grass, where the blade can be made up
of as little as 3 points, the savings will be less spectacular (the actual
magnitude depends on the implementation of the object description data
structures).  You *still* have to store *something* about each individual
blade.  Use thousands of blades, and even replication can eat up a fair amount
of RAM. (if anything, it lets you do a heck of a lot more with your scene
before you run out of RAM).

        Still, RAM isn't the only issue here.  You still have to render those
thousands of grass blades.  They'll be pretty close together, so the renderer
Command:
will end up spending a fair amount of time doing intersection or Z-buffer
testing, and sorting.  Have fun if it does antialiasing.

        As was mentioned, fractals and particle systems will also to the job
for grass.  Fractals typically require a fair amount of RAM and CPU, and
particle systems require memory to track each particle (the amount depends on
the complexity of your particle simulation).  The results, however, can be
*very* satisfying.

        In short, there's no free lunch.  Any method of rendering complex
Command:
natural objects will require a fair amount of RAM, processing time, or both.
The result you get pretty much depends on your deadlines and how much
memory you have available.  And the tools you have available, both in your head
and on your hard disk...

        Cheers,
        Charles
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3835 New subscriber w/ questions
6/16/93 15:37 23/ Peter Garza <[e-mail]>
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Greetings all!  I just subscribed to the IML and had a
couple of questions.  I am making an anim of 2 dancing
robots and set up their cycles in the Cycle editor.  I
changed the position, slightly, in one of the keyframes and
went to the Stage to see what the change had done.  When I
went back to the Cycle and tried to reload the cycle,
Imagine said "Not a (proper) animated object file" and
couldn't load it.  It still turns up in the Stage and
Detail editors fine.  This happened one other seemingly
random time.  Any help on how to get it back, or do I have
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to remake the cycle with snapshots (urg).
        My second question is haw can I get Imagine to make
an anim that can be loaded into DPaint 4.  If I make a
project in ANIM format and load the anim into DPaint, the
frames degrade in successive frames until the anim looks
like colored TV static.  In a similar vein, if I play an
anim using AmigaVision, it plays fine until the last few or
the very last frame.  The frames then turn into static-like
pictures.

Command:
Thanks for any help,
Peter Garza  ([e-mail])

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3836 Retina and Imagine problem
6/16/93 16:12 7/ Mark Davis <[e-mail]>
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I am running Imagine on a 1024x768 screen.  I am experiencing crashes
while in the Stage editor whenever I try to zoom in closely in one of the
tri-views.  Before the machine crashes I noticed that the screen wasn't
being refreshed properly (dragging an object left pixel trails of the
object).  Have any of you Retina/Imagine users experienced this?

mark
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3837 Pov Where To Find
6/17/93 03:00 24/ Santi Lo Monaco <[e-mail]>
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Finding PoV should not be that hard:
try   ftp.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de
under /pub/dkbtrace/POV-Ray1.0/
there you will find PoV executables,
under /pub/dkbtrace/utils/
lots of utilities and another great Raytracer -VIVID-
under /pub/dkbtrace/incoming/
lots of new utilities and scenes and another tracer: PolyRay

there is a list for PoV users too:
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subscribe dkb-l yourname
this should be in the body of your mail, list address is:
[e-mail]
it is not really busy lately but we are all waiting for PoV version2 which
should be out soon (would like to know when though!)


BYE to all fellow imagineers hoping one day i can imagine too
(BTW i guess we the beta-testers of Imagine Pc will be upgraded free to
the new version ?!?!)
Command:

One question: Somebody mentions "Metaballs", are they related somehow to
those
"Blobs" cited in some RT literature?
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3838 Wavefront v. Imagine
6/16/93 18:37 14/ John J Humpal <[e-mail]>
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Mr. Scott Krehbiel writes:
>
> Trust me - Imagine can't
> touch this!  Wavefront makes Imagine's renderer look like a bunch
> of canned effects.

        Well, jeez, what do you expect?!  Imagine costs $200, and
what does Wavefront cost?  $8000?  $10000?  Wavefront makes
all the consumer grade renderers look weak, I'm sure.
--
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-John

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3839 Re: Fred Fish
6/16/93 19:11 24/ [e-mail] (Jean Pepin)
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> I'm pretty sure that there isn't a PD library in the whole world that is as
> well organized as Fred Fish's. Each disk comes with documentation on how to
> get Fred Fish disks, a "Contents" document that gives a description of each
> program on the disk, a "C" directory that contains commands that are used to
> read documents, view animations, play music, view pictures and decompress
> files, relating to the context of the disk. Each Fred Fish disk can carry
> 880K of programs so 850x880 Kilobytes is how much storage you need to carry
> 850 disks of the distribution.

Sorry but CAM disk are well organized, each number are theme classifed, a
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number can contain up to 5 disk full of compressed data, the collection
reach 775 number, far more than 1000 disk, contain some theme like, DTP
fonts, Objects 3d, Pictures, music modules, Vector clip art, Animations, who
are praticly inexistant in Fish, also all data are tested and judged for
quality. Fish disk is the well know PD collection, not the only one.

Attention: this is just information, not a revision or publicity, i'm the
CAM maker. :)
--
\***  CCC AAA M   M  CLUB AMIGA MONTREAL           ------- Internet -------
Command:
***   C   A A MM MM  3501 Cote Ste-Catherine #212 |   [e-mail]   |
***** C   AAA M M M  Montreal, Quebec H3T 1Z8      ------------------------
 ***  CCC A A M   M  [phone]                Jean Pepin -- PRESIDENT
---------------------------Le bon sens c'est CAM-------------------------->
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3840 RE: MPEG converter
6/16/93 23:29 237/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        > hundreds of JPEG'd frames.

        So are you saying that you render a load of pictures convert them to JPEG
        Then put them into an ANIM5 file ? If so can a normal ANIM5 player play
        the JPEGed anim back, and what sort of frame rate do you get ?
------------------
No... I use Rend24 to convert the JPEG'd frames to ANIM5... I use
Rayshade 4.0 to render these ultra large RLE (32-bit graphics format)
images, and convert the images each to JPEG format, then I stuff the
frames on several disks, take it home, pull out Rend24 and have it
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convert the JPEG'd frames to HAM format and splice the frames
together to make a ANim5 format animation. Actually I have
C programs to do most of the work for me.. I haveone program
called Rayfly that takes two files with a cammera and target path
and provide it with a file containing the environment and all the
objects in that environment... What Rayfly does is it reads both of the path
files to determine the cammera positions and such in the 3D universe
and rayfly writes these coordinates in a form that rayshade can take them,
then I #include the cammera positionsinto the file that I will
render... Then I JPEG the frames when they are finished and delete the
Command:
original frames.. This is all automated in a rayfly using just a combination
of file handling and system() calls.

Here is my program:

#define DEBUG 0
#define AnimationName argv[1]
#define CammeraPathName argv[2]
#define LookPathName argv[3]
#define FrameBase argv[4]
Command:
#define FrameIncrement argv[5]
#define Tween 10.0
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <string.h>

/*
** This program makes animations using Rayshade on a standard
**      Unix system equiped with MIPS C.
*/
Command:

main(int argc, char *argv[]) /* Get arguements from command line */
{
        /*
        ** Frame number and Count <== 0
        */
        int frame = 0, count = 0;
        int increment = 0;
        float camaxis1[3], camaxis2[3];
        float lokaxis1[3], lokaxis2[3];
Command:
        float Cincment[3], Lincment[3], tweens;
        FILE *cfptr, *lfptr, *wfptr;
        char tempstring[256];

        if (argc < 6)
           {
          printf("The syntax is \"%s <animation.ray> %s %s",argv[0],
                                "<cammera_path.geo> <lookpoint_path.geo> \n",
                                "<framebase> <increment> \"\n ");
                }
Command:
        else
                {
                increment = atoi(FrameIncrement);

                /* can we read the Cammera and LookPoint files??? */
                if ((cfptr = fopen (CammeraPathName,"r")) == NULL)
                        printf("%s could not be opened. \n",CammeraPathName);
                else
                if ((lfptr = fopen (LookPathName,"r")) == NULL)
                        {
Command:
                        fclose(cfptr);
                        printf("%s could not be opened. \n",LookPathName);
                        }
                else
                        {

                        /*
                        ** Take off header of the cammera read-in file
                        */
                        fscanf(cfptr, "%f%f%f", &camaxis1[0],&camaxis1[1],&camaxis1[2]);
Command:
                        /*
                        ** Get the real Cammera Start and End coordiantes
                        */
                        fscanf(cfptr, "%f%f%f", &camaxis1[0],&camaxis1[1],&camaxis1[2]);
                        fscanf(cfptr, "%f%f%f", &camaxis2[0],&camaxis2[1],&camaxis2[2]);

                        /*
                        ** Take off header of the lookpoint (target) read-in file
                        */
                        fscanf(lfptr, "%f%f%f", &lokaxis1[0],&lokaxis1[1],&lokaxis1[2]);
Command:
                        /*
                        ** Get the real Lookpoint Start and End coordiantes
                        */
                        fscanf(lfptr, "%f%f%f", &lokaxis1[0],&lokaxis1[1],&lokaxis1[2]);
                        fscanf(lfptr, "%f%f%f", &lokaxis2[0],&lokaxis2[1],&lokaxis2[2]);

                        while (!feof(cfptr) && !feof(lfptr))
                                {
                                Cincment[0] = (float) ((camaxis2[0] - camaxis1[0])/Tween);
                                Cincment[1] = (float) ((camaxis2[1] - camaxis1[1])/Tween);
Command:
                                Cincment[2] = (float) ((camaxis2[2] - camaxis1[2])/Tween);
                                Lincment[0] = (float) ((lokaxis2[0] - lokaxis1[0])/Tween);
                                Lincment[1] = (float) ((lokaxis2[1] - lokaxis1[1])/Tween);
                                Lincment[2] = (float) ((lokaxis2[2] - lokaxis1[2])/Tween);

                                for (tweens = 1 ; tweens <= Tween ; tweens++)
                                        {
                                        if ((wfptr = fopen ("cammera.ray","w")) == NULL)
                                        printf("File could not be created \n");
                                        else
Command:
                                                {
                                                if (DEBUG)
                                                        {
                                                        if ((camaxis1[0] == lokaxis1[0]) &&
                                                                (camaxis1[1] == lokaxis1[1]))
                                                                {
                                                                printf ("eyep %f %f %f \n",
                                                                        camaxis1[0],camaxis1[1],camaxis1[2]);
                                                                printf ( "lookp %f %f %f \n",
                                                                        lokaxis1[0]+.02,lokaxis1[1],lokaxis1[2]);
Command:
                                                                }
                                                        else
                                                                {
                                                                printf ("eyep %f %f %f \n",
                                                                        camaxis1[0],camaxis1[1],camaxis1[2]);
                                                                printf ( "lookp %f %f %f \n",
                                                                        lokaxis1[0],lokaxis1[1],lokaxis1[2]);
                                                                }

                                                        }
Command:
                                                if ((camaxis1[0] == lokaxis1[0]) &&
                                                         (camaxis1[1] == lokaxis1[1]))
                                                        {
                                                        fprintf (wfptr, "eyep %f %f %f \n",
                                                                camaxis1[0],camaxis1[1],camaxis1[2]);
                                                        fprintf (wfptr, "lookp %f %f %f \n",
                                                                lokaxis1[0]+.02,lokaxis1[1],lokaxis1[2]);
                                                        fclose  (wfptr);
                                                        }
                                                else
Command:
                                                        {
                                                        fprintf (wfptr, "eyep %f %f %f \n",
                                                                camaxis1[0],camaxis1[1],camaxis1[2]);
                                                        fprintf (wfptr, "lookp %f %f %f \n",
                                                                lokaxis1[0],lokaxis1[1],lokaxis1[2]);
                                                        fclose  (wfptr);
                                                        }

                                                count++;
                                                if ((count % increment)==0)
Command:
                                                {
                                                        frame++;

                                                        if (DEBUG)
                                                                {
                                                                printf("rayshade -V stuff.results -p %s > %s%d.rle \n",
                                                                        AnimationName,FrameBase,frame);
                                                                printf("cjpeg -Q80 %s%d.rle > %s%d.jpg ; rm %s%d.rle \n",
                                                                        FrameBase,frame,FrameBase,frame,FrameBase,frame);
                                                                }
Command:
                                                        else
                                                                {

/* THIS IS WHERE MY PROGRAM TELLS RAYSHADE TO RENDER A FRAME
**      AND JPEG IT.
*/
                                                        sprintf(tempstring,
                                                                "rayshade -V stuff.results -p %s > %s%d.rle",
                                                                AnimationName,FrameBase,frame);
                                                        system(tempstring);
Command:

                                                        sprintf(tempstring,
                                                                "cjpeg -Q80 %s%d.rle > %s%d.jpg ; rm %s%d.rle",
                                                                FrameBase,frame,FrameBase,frame,FrameBase,frame);
                                                        system(tempstring);
                                                                }

                                                        } /* Rayshade */
                                                } /* Wfptr */

Command:
                                                camaxis1[0] += Cincment[0];
                                                camaxis1[1] += Cincment[1];
                                                camaxis1[2] += Cincment[2];
                                                lokaxis1[0] += Lincment[0];
                                                lokaxis1[1] += Lincment[1];
                                                lokaxis1[2] += Lincment[2];
                                        }       /* FOR LOOP */

                                camaxis1[0] = camaxis2[0];
                                camaxis1[1] = camaxis2[1];
Command:
                                camaxis1[2] = camaxis2[2];
                                lokaxis1[0] = lokaxis2[0];
                                lokaxis1[1] = lokaxis2[1];
                                lokaxis1[2] = lokaxis2[2];

                                fscanf(cfptr, "%f%f%f",
                                        &camaxis2[0],&camaxis2[1],&camaxis2[2]);
                                fscanf(lfptr, "%f%f%f",
                                        &lokaxis2[0],&lokaxis2[1],&lokaxis2[2]);
                                } /* While More To read Loop */
Command:
                                fclose(cfptr);
                                fclose(lfptr);
                        } /* If can open Cammera and Look files */
                }  /* Correct number of arguements IF scope */
} /* End of Program */

-----------------
I also have a program that converts output that this program
creates (as JPEG files) and will try to make tar files containing
approximately as much data to stuff a disk of a specific
Command:
number of kilobytes... I really kludged that one too..

It took the system 3 days to ray-trace my roller coaster, but
it came out to be 390 frames... Not one instruction cycle was
wasted on my Amiga rendering my animations... I use a combination
of the AMiga, C code, a VAX 5000, JPEG, system() calls, rayshade
and rend24... It seems to be a bit much for rendering animations..
I agree, but there are some things you can do with a public domain
renderer that are near impossible to do in Imagine... One thing
is remap points according to equations created in C, and complex
Command:
animation movements... For instance, I could create a C program that
would simulate gravity and would let you perform complex situations
where the feild of view and the density of fog, etc., changes
with the animation.. Imagine is limited, if you are a programmer..
If you are a artist you could probably care less, but those who
can program can figure out ways to do things that would otherwise be
impossible with a limited modeling/rendering program.

I think you get the idea...
-----------------
Command:
        Is this a frequently used method?
        Has anyone got any examples?
------------------
I will upload a copy of my rollercoaster niamtion to Wuarchive as soon as
it comes back on-line... I will also try to find other places that
will accept my uploads. Anyone have any suggestions???

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3841 Re: Wavefront v. Imagine
6/16/93 23:51 11/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        > Trust me - Imagine can't
        > touch this!  Wavefront makes Imagine's renderer look like a bunch
        > of canned effects.

                Well, jeez, what do you expect?!  Imagine costs $200, and
        what does Wavefront cost?  $8000?  $10000?  Wavefront makes
        all the consumer grade renderers look weak, I'm sure.
--------
Imagine can't touch some PD rendering programs... True,
comparing Wavefront and Imagine is like comparing Amiga to a Cray...
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It is senseless...
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3842 Re: Retina and Imagine problem
6/16/93 23:48 8/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        tri-views.  Before the machine crashes I noticed that the screen wasn't
        being refreshed properly (dragging an object left pixel trails of the
        object).  Have any of you Retina/Imagine users experienced this?

        mark
----------------
I have experienced this without a Retina on my Amiga 3000.. I don't know
what causes it...
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3843 Re:  Grass
6/16/93 23:45 79/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        >  You load only the primitives of one object, then the ray-tracer
        >  (I suppose) treats duplicates as one in the same, just instantiated and
        >  morphed elsewhere.. There was a animation I saw where some instantiated
        >  several manequins on unicycles to infinity... Don't tell me it
        >  is crazy...

                Let's be clear here.  For each replicated object you need to store at
        least postion/scale/and orientation triplets.  Extras could include also
        storing a world-space bounding volume and any surface attributes that change
        from copy to copy.  When the renderer figures out that it needs to do a
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        rigorous intersection test with a replicated object, it will make
        the appropriate coordinate transforms to object space and use the results for
        the scanline or ray interestion test.  Only one copy of the actual points is
        needed.
-------------
Ya... That's how it is done... Our system hardley ever uses up any ram...
The great thing about Unix is it has Virtual Memory support...
However, the 1280x1024 image of an 80 soldier army that I made
took up (I think) only 5 megs of memory, MAX, to render under rayshade..
-------------
Command:
                In the case of a manequins, this will save lots of RAM since the
        information for each replicated object will use *much* less space than complete
        object descriptions.  But in the case of grass, where the blade can be made up
        of as little as 3 points, the savings will be less spectacular (the actual
        magnitude depends on the implementation of the object description data
        structures).  You *still* have to store *something* about each individual
        blade.  Use thousands of blades, and even replication can eat up a fair amount
        of RAM. (if anything, it lets you do a heck of a lot more with your scene
        before you run out of RAM).
------------
Command:
In UNIX you don't.. especially on a 300 meg hard drive with only 80 megs
left... If you want proof, I will make you a picture with several thousand
or ten thousand blades of grass... each with 100 polygons... I will try it
at least... and I will make a program to randomly place the blades of
grass.. Then I will probably do a fly-through of the scenery... How
about that??? All those who would like to see me do that, say
yay!
-----------
                Still, RAM isn't the only issue here.  You still have to render those
        thousands of grass blades.  They'll be pretty close together, so the renderer
Command:
        will end up spending a fair amount of time doing intersection or Z-buffer
        testing, and sorting.  Have fun if it does antialiasing.
-----------
It does... as I said, I did a picture containing 80 soldiers which
each took about 10,000 polygons, and I instantiated them in several places..
My rendering is on wuarchive under "army.jpg" I believe...
-----------
                As was mentioned, fractals and particle systems will also to the job
        for grass.  Fractals typically require a fair amount of RAM and CPU, and
        particle systems require memory to track each particle (the amount depends on
Command:
        the complexity of your particle simulation).  The results, however, can be
        *very* satisfying.
------------
Oh, I know.. but it is hardly possible for me to use particle systems
since none of the public domain programs support them.. It is a moot
dicussion...
------------
                In short, there's no free lunch.  Any method of rendering complex
        natural objects will require a fair amount of RAM, processing time, or both.
        The result you get pretty much depends on your deadlines and how much
Command:
        memory you have available.  And the tools you have available, both in your head
        and on your hard disk...
----------
I have them.... The SGI's we are getting will come with 2
1.2 gig hard drives, and you can bet that at 10:00 PM at night I will have
exclusive access to all four of the indigos and the main SGI workstation..
Talk about heaven!!!! The SU has been kidding me that they will put a
quarter mechanism on it... I said "just as long as I can play
with the flight simulator on the 150 Mips server... ;-)
-----------
Command:
                Cheers,
                Charles
-----------
Later
/***********************************************************************
** Kiernan Holland, [e-mail], [e-mail] **
** (University Of New Mexico - Los Alamos Branch Computer AIDE)       **
** "If it doesn't work, turn it off/on or ask me to watch."           **
***********************************************************************/
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3844 Re: MPEG converter
6/17/93 00:37 5/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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Have you got a copy of that Encoder??? Could you put it on teh FTP sites...
Or is it around??

Thanks

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3845 Re: T3DDD and Icoons question...
6/17/93 00:36 15/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        Are either of these available for the PC platform, or do either come
        with source code to compile on the PC platform?

        Thanks,
        Mark
---------------------
Ask Glenn Lewis, he made T3D library that contains programs
like TDDD2RAY and TDDD2PS (yes Postscript... and it works!!!).
I think at one time he had it in full source code distribution form.
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Well, Glenn How About it??!!!

Icoons is a GNU project, I think, the source code is available,
I'm sure...
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3846 Re: Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/17/93 00:32 142/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        > don't complain... some will even advertise the software even if it
        > has 20 problems with it... Take for instance DMCS... I was lucky to learn the
        > -------------
        Let me clairify my GRRRR.  It wasn't the complaining that I was complaining
        about.  It was your comment on overpriced software.  Have you taken a look
        a the price of MAC software and to a lesser extent, PCsw?  Sure there are really
        nice packages out there, high end stuff, that you pay for and is probably worth
        it.  But they got crap that you pay for too.  Here on the Amiga we have programs
        like Vista and Scenery Animator for under $100!!!  To me, that is amazing!!!
---------
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Now where the f*ck did I say that AMiga software was sh*t...
I said AMiga users don't complain enough to push the programmers and
companies..  Like, CBM just expects thier users to kiss thier beautiful
butts everytime they release a model, just like mac users do with Apple.
If the users compalin about the computers, CBM would work harder to
impress the users.. They don't have a chance in the world to enter the PC
market successfully, they now know that the Amiga is where it is at...
They are not going to abandon the Amiga platform... I think that
is what most Amiga users are afraid of, therefore they kiss *ss...

Command:
I don't... I like what I see and I will talk about it, but I don't feel
inclined to admire CBM or Impulse, or anybody... If it is a good
product, it is a good product... They could sell Imagine for
20 bucks and it wouldn't matter... disks are easier to mass produce
than any material good in the entire world and yet it costs an
arm and a leg for programs that come on them...

As programs get better, the old revisions lower in price much faster
than hardware... Probably because some users like myself have
figured it out that programs are overpriced... Less work, more
Command:
money... that's the idea... sell it for what the people will bare...
Amiga users can't afford costly programs, that is why Caligari costs
200 bucks, Imagine costs 200 bucks and Dpaint costs less than 100
dollars.. On the Mac's there are more companies that got more dough,
and they can afford to pay high prices.... Look on any low-end
platform and you will see that this is true...
---------

        And they send free(thats right, I said FREE(as well they should)) upgrades when
        they make mistakes. I've seen 3D packages on the MAC(can't recall which one)
Command:
----------
There are 50 million PC users and 10 million Mac users... the Companies
can get away with it there.. Now when teh Amiga user base expands
to 10 million, expect to find companies charging for upgrades...
----------
        with half the features that cost twice as much as Imagine(keeping with the topic
        of the list).  So, don't get me wrong...ya gotta complain if it don't work. But
----------
MS makes most of thier money off upgrades...

Command:
It is all a matter of user base and ethics... It is one reason
I don't own a PC... Then again I would rather have an Amiga developer
tha makes an effort to make bug-free, defect free, understandable software
(like most MAC software) rather than just make revisions when the users
complain... That is about how it goes on the Amiga...
Either they look for errors deliberately, or they wait for the errors
to come knocking at their door... Impulse should clear up thier
errors before they upgrade thier software... It will make it easier
on both them and the users, however they seem to be doing it the
more screwy disorganized way... Hunt and hack...
Command:

I believe in smart coding styles like programs that are flexible,
modular, top-down design bottom-up implemented, and can "sense"
the environment before they continue execution... Imagine doesn't
seem to do this... Otherwise it would be capable of running
on a PC or whatever, and you would not need to replace register values in
the program's binaries to make it support resolutions like 1280x1024...
The programmer could have at least had Imagine determine how much memory
is available for graphics, what chipset is being used, what the current
screen resolution is, how many colors are possible, etc. and change the
Command:
global variables to reflect the environment... But no... The programmer
has to hard-code the magic numbers in that choose only one of two resolutions
(hires and hires-lace).. It is what we call "Poor Software Design".
I bet the programmer(s??) of Imagine doesn't even have a Masters,
Probably not even a bachelors... It is so obvious..
----------
        ya gotta love it if it do.
---------------
I don't have to... I can choose to, if I see a need.. It just happens
that I have Imagine.. I don't really prefer it... I have figured out a
Command:
way to do what I want to do with it...

It is better than nothing..
---------------
        > > varies from PC to PC. I would suggest trying it on many different
        > > machine of different BIOS, operating system revisions
        > > and possibly system hardware. If it still fails... Then I
        > > would contact Impulse.
        >
        >       Tee hee, tee hee....
Command:
        > -------------
        > Boy you sound like a sorry customer...
        > -------------

        Sorry that they don't provide better support! ;)

        > >That is a tough one.. I would have to have a copy of it myself to
        > >diagnose it... You could probably DEBUG the binaries and do a trace to
        > >see where it goes or probably find out where the message is being called
        > >and find the subroutine...  Chances are the code was compiled
Command:
        > >entirely in C and tracing would be near impossible... But it is worth a
        > >try..
        >
        > <Insert favorite outburst of laughter here>
        > Oh, stop, my sides are killing me.
        >
        > -------------
        > Hey, I have traced the bootstrap of MSDOS with complete understanding...
        > I know tracing Imagine is near impossible but I was thinking that the problem
        > may be something that happens at first, so it may be in at the first 500
Command:
        > instructions... Then again, the code is not linear and it would be like
        > finding a needle in a field of haystacks. It was just a thought.
        > What you could probably do is find some way to get the instruction
        > in a physical address that was last executed and from that you might be
        > able to have a debugging program trace all the way to that point then
        > list which were the last instructions to be executed... If the last

        And say you find that MOVE that is writing to NULL or some other illegal address
        ...???  I mean sure, finding it isn't so bad, maybe...but...now what?  Call
        Impulse, and tell them their MOVE is writing to a bad addr?  I'd say your best
Command:
        bet, as someone pointed out earlier(maybe it was you) is to figure out what
        differences there are between the non-working setup and the working setup.
        I know some people have gotten it working without having to trace through on the
        assembler level.
-----------
Ya... the assembler debuging stuff is a last chance thing...
BIOS and DOS would be two primary causes. There is a
big difference between the way that AMI BIOS and PHOENIX BIOS boot...
It is not expected that BIOS's should be different, they should work the
same, implementation can be different, but sometimes it doesn't
Command:
work out that way...
-----------

        Tom Setzer
        [e-mail]
-----------

/***********************************************************************
** Kiernan Holland, [e-mail], [e-mail] **
** (University Of New Mexico - Los Alamos Branch Computer AIDE)       **
Command:
** "If it doesn't work, turn it off/on or ask me to watch."           **
***********************************************************************/
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3847 Re: MPEG converter
6/17/93 07:07 18/ Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>
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Regarding the MPEG encoder Kholland wrote:

>where did you get it??? I want a copy ;-) I know of an encoder for
>Xwindows and UNIX, but it is a piece of kaka...

This may be a port of that same program, I haven't tried it yet.  The
program I am refering to is PVRGMPG.zip .  It just came across
comp.graphics.animation  and alt.binaries.multimedia The complete
source code is at havefun.stanford.edu   (so I have read)
I will repeat for anyone who may have just tuned in, this is a PC
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program, not an Amiga program.

The person who did the conversion is
[e-mail] (whew glad my address isn't that
long!) He was attempting to get the program up on SIMTEL also.

I would love to see this program ported to the amiga.  Go for it KH!

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3848 Swivel
6/17/93 07:31 12/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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From [e-mail] Thu Jun 17 07:17:00 1993
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 07:20:38 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Thomas E. Smith)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Swivel


Scott was saying something about Swivel on the Mac. I was going to try and write
an object converter between Imagine and Swivel. Does anyone know the Swivel
object format?
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                                                   Tom
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3849 looking for docs on file structure of cycle animations and
6/17/93 08:04 8/ Jonathan Sivier  <[e-mail]>
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   I think my subject line covers it.  I'm working with some imagine files
and am wordering if anyone can point me to documentation of the file structure
of the cycle object animation and the ANID chunk of the file.

   Thanks for your assistance.

Jonathan Sivier
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3850 Changes changes changes
6/17/93 08:25 49/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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YeeeHaw Imagineers!  :-)


Since our system upgrade here, you may have noticed
the address

[e-mail]

showing up on posts. You might see this in the header
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under the from line. (Not the from: line!)

Nevermind... the thing to keep in mind is this-

When you REPLY to a message, be certain that it's
being sent to

imagine

NOT
Command:

imagine-relay


If you respond to imagine-relay, the message will be
forwarded to _me_ privately, not to the IML.
The imagine-relay address is there so that posters no
longer need to put up with getting back all those ugly
bounce reports. The errors only get sent back to me for
administrative purposes.
Command:

So... to make a long story short...
never let your REPLY get sent to imagine-relay, nobody will see it.

Make sure it goes to good 'ole
[e-mail]


As always...use [e-mail]  for
subscriptions...unsubscriptions...address changes...blah blah blah.
Command:


Dave Wickard  [phone]   "I have created genetically-altered
[e-mail]        prehistoric sausage links, living breathing
[e-mail]       prehistoric bacon..millions of years old,
                                and most amazingly, carnivorous prehistoric
                                Armour sliced and canned ham packed in water."
          -from my upcoming novella / animation "Dave Wickard's Jurassic Pork"

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3851 Re: renderman... pd??
6/17/93 09:52 11/ Cliff Lee <[e-mail]>
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> But there
> is a program out (distributed with a book) called BOB that looks just
> as good as Renderman..

FYI,
The book is by Stephen Coy who is the author of VIVID.  BOB is a version
of VIVID.  Both shareware raytracers, and worth looking at.

Cliff

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3852 Imagine, Amiga ragging
6/17/93 08:08 164/ [e-mail]
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I don't know, and much less care who this is from, and the message seems
to have been convoluted but here goes.
From a recent thread:

>>Now where the f*ck did I say that AMiga software was sh*t...
>>I said AMiga users don't complain enough to push the programmers and
>>companies..  Like, CBM just expects thier users to kiss thier beautiful
>>butts everytime they release a model, just like mac users do with Apple.
>>If the users compalin about the computers, CBM would work harder to
>>impress the users.. They don't have a chance in the world to enter the PC
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>>market successfully, they now know that the Amiga is where it is at...
>>They are not going to abandon the Amiga platform... I think that
>>is what most Amiga users are afraid of, therefore they kiss *ss...

+  Well I've had my Amiga since the 1000 days, moved to the 2000, now have
+ a 4000. I don't feel I've been kissing anything, but am really happy CBM
+has maintained an upward path, and with the AGA chipset a grand one at that.
+All with a minimum of software incompatability. As far as CBM and Mac
+releasing new models, most CBM has kept the product line as lean as possible
+and still managed to offer a product that is widespread amoung users. Most
Command:
+hings that run on the 1200(exclude games) will run on the 4000. You don't see
+this on the other platforms. CBM deserves credit for a job well done on the
+4000, and AmigaDos.I am pleased with the software I have  on the Amiga, and
+though I do see room for improvement I realize a small compaanies have limited
+resources as opposed to the very large firms supporting other platforms.

>I don't... I like what I see and I will talk about it, but I don't feel
>inclined to admire CBM or Impulse, or anybody... If it is a good
>product, it is a good product... They could sell Imagine for
>20 bucks and it wouldn't matter... disks are easier to mass produce
Command:
>than any material good in the entire world and yet it costs an
>arm and a leg for programs that come on them...

 +I have seen some really admirable stuff done with Imagine, and for it's
 +price I can't complain. I get many hours of enjoyment out of Imagine
 +and long ago passed the point of not getting my monies worth. To relate
 +the value, or cost of a program to the medium it comes on is not the
 +sign of a clever person at best.

As programs get better, the old revisions lower in price much faster
Command:
than hardware... Probably because some users like myself have
figured it out that programs are overpriced... Less work, more
money... that's the idea... sell it for what the people will bare...

+ It seems that you need a course in business 101 at least. As a
+program matures and you recoup your investment you find yourself
+able to contain cost so to speak much easier. This is also aided by
+the revenue generated by upgrade fees. Some programs that were grossly
+overpriced, as you indicated in the following paragraph had to reduce
+to be competive with the other offerings.
Command:

Amiga users can't afford costly programs, that is why Caligari costs
200 bucks, Imagine costs 200 bucks and Dpaint costs less than 100
dollars.. On the Mac's there are more companies that got more dough,
and they can afford to pay high prices.... Look on any low-end
platform and you will see that this is true...

+Speak for yourself ! I'm a adult that has the ability to manage to
+budget for my software. I see the prices rising as the quality, and power
+of software improves. However I have the advantage of owning most of the
Command:
+better stuff since it's early days and upgrade as often as I can. With
+AGA I'll have to space the upgrades out but will eventually get them all.
+I realize the need to support the Amiga Platform and am +willing to sacrifice
+a little to do so, others seem only interested in a free ride. I buy from my
+local dealer whenever reasonable to support him. $10.00 more or less is a small
+price to pay to help him survive. I am not stupid. I know I can save money
+buying elsewhere, but The Amiga is in an awkward posistion. Because the user
+base is amaller it makes the support extended by this user base much more
+important.
---------
Command:
        And they send free(thats right, I said FREE(as well they should))
upgrades when   they make mistakes. I've seen 3D packages on the MAC(can't
recall which one)
----------
+Virtual Realities, and ASDG both offer excellent support of their programs
+as an example.
------
There are 50 million PC users and 10 million Mac users... the Companies
can get away with it there.. Now when teh Amiga user base expands
to 10 million, expect to find companies charging for upgrades...
Command:
----------
+Disagree here. Bug fixes no, actual product enhancements I see the Amiga
+developers having the right and ability to charge for upgrades. It allows
+them to generate development funds, and the user to enjoy the fruits of
+these development efforts at an incremental cost. The need for upgrade
+charges is even more critical in the Amiga Market.


with half the features that cost twice as much as Imagine(keeping with the topic
of the list).  So, don't get me wrong...ya gotta complain if it don't work. But
Command:
----------
MS makes most of thier money off upgrades...

It is all a matter of user base and ethics... It is one reason
I don't own a PC... Then again I would rather have an Amiga developer
tha makes an effort to make bug-free, defect free, understandable software
(like most MAC software) rather than just make revisions when the users
complain... That is about how it goes on the Amiga...
Either they look for errors deliberately, or they wait for the errors
to come knocking at their door... Impulse should clear up thier
Command:
errors before they upgrade thier software... It will make it easier
on both them and the users, however they seem to be doing it the
more screwy disorganized way... Hunt and hack...

+Well I do wish it could be this way also, but in reality bugs are always
+ a possability. There are so many varables in a software program, and
+especially in a program like Imagine that it would be near impossible
*to eliminate them all and still ship in a reasonable amount of time. I
+have recieved free disks from Impulse(YES IMPULSE) in the past to fix
+critical problems. Regard most Mac software, Yes it seems to have inherent
Command:
+ better stability, that is unless you count the problems with stuff and
+system 7. This stability is also easier to obtain when you don't concern
+yourself with backward compatability.

I believe in smart coding styles like programs that are flexible,
modular, top-down design bottom-up implemented, and can "sense"
the environment before they continue execution... Imagine doesn't
seem to do this... Otherwise it would be capable of running
on a PC or whatever,

Command:
+ Well I think this is a little out of line. Developing for the PC
+with it's many inherent problems has nothing to do with the above.
+Regardless of how you develop your code, if your new to the PC
+(piece C***) enviornment your going to have problems. It's not
+easy going from a OS like Amigados, and a AUTOCONFIG(tm) system
+like the Amiga to the hodgepodge world of messy dos. This is an
+even harder task if your trying to get the same functions you have
+on the Amiga.

 and you would not need to replace register values in
Command:
the program's binaries to make it support resolutions like 1280x1024...
The programmer could have at least had Imagine determine how much memory
is available for graphics, what chipset is being used, what the current
screen resolution is, how many colors are possible, etc. and change the
global variables to reflect the environment... But no... The programmer
has to hard-code the magic numbers in that choose only one of two resolutions
(hires and hires-lace).. It is what we call "Poor Software Design".
I bet the programmer(s??) of Imagine doesn't even have a Masters,
Probably not even a bachelors... It is so obvious..

Command:
+Opps Again. I admit that support for the different resolutions would be nice.
+I also realize that these 1280x1024 requirements wern't even a dream until
+a short time ago. Imagine Supports all the standard(and DCTV) formats that
+were available during it's design cycle. I have a 4000 but still only a 1084s
+for a monitor. The large majority of Imagine users will not have a problem
+with this restriction for quite a while.(I don't consider us netters the
+average user) In time as things settle down and support for 3.0 grows these
+problems should go away.(At least I think so). To throw darts at this time
+seems a little rash, to slam the programmers especially in regards to education
+is outright rude(please forward me a beta copy of your 3D modeler). I'd much
Command:
+rather Impulse spend time on the features list than waste it on screen
+resolutions at this time.

 This thread has become disjointed so I simply makked my thoughts with
a "+" to seperate them. We should also remember that Impulse have offerd
Imagine PC to us for $100.00 . At that price I can put in on my desk at work
and then I can see if it runs or not:-)
                                                bill
/------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill leimberger. NASHUA N.H.
Command:
I am Not an Amiga dealer, or developer. I am simply An
Amiga user that appreciats The Amiga and the things it allows me to do.
These ramblings are my own and do not reflect on my employer, or anyone
else for that matter*/
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3853 Re: Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/17/93 09:20 129/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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> From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

> Let me clairify my GRRRR.  It wasn't the complaining that I was complaining
> about.  It was your comment on overpriced software.  Have you taken a look
> a the price of MAC software and to a lesser extent, PCsw?  Sure there are really
> nice packages out there, high end stuff, that you pay for and is probably worth
> it.  But they got crap that you pay for too.  Here on the Amiga we have programs
> like Vista and Scenery Animator for under $100!!!  To me, that is amazing!!!
> ---------
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> Now where the f*ck did I say that AMiga software was sh*t...

I didn't say you said that.  Look again, take the time to read it this
time through.   You said, and I quote:
"I really believe that about 50% of the Amiga software that exists, is
overpriced for the ammount of obvious effort that is put into it. "
^^^^^^^^^^
Thats a cut and paste boys and girls.

Command:
> If the users compalin about the computers, CBM would work harder to
> impress the users..

  Hasn't worked yet.  If you look on the net, all users do is piss and moan.
Sure Impulse as a company sucks, their customer relations blow, their release
dates are off target and probably too early by the amount of bugs PC users
have seen.  But for $200+ it is still a great deal.  Crappy manual, bugs and
all. (Did you catch that, I was complaining and praising all at once.
Pretty cool, huh?)

Command:

> market successfully, they now know that the Amiga is where it is at...
> They are not going to abandon the Amiga platform... I think that
> is what most Amiga users are afraid of, therefore they kiss *ss...

Are you making this crap up as you go along?  What *I* worry about is
C= going down the tubes.  If the big C determines that it *needs* to abandon
the Amiga, it will.  Take a look at the stock.  ~3.  That ain't good.


Command:
>They could sell Imagine for 20 bucks and it wouldn't matter...

What the hell does that mean?


>disks are easier to mass produce than any material good in the entire
> world

  Even those cute little Troll dolls?

Command:
>  and yet it costs an arm and a leg for programs that come on them...
>
   No sh*t, we keypunches gotta make a living somehow.

> As programs get better, the old revisions lower in price much faster
> than hardware... Probably because some users like myself have
> figured it out that programs are overpriced... Less work, more
> money... that's the idea... sell it for what the people will bare...

Thats from Econ 101 you took last semester I assume?
Command:

> Amiga users can't afford costly programs, that is why Caligari costs
> 200 bucks,

And why Caligari Broadcast cost out the butt.

> It is all a matter of user base and ethics... It is one reason
> I don't own a PC...

Huh?  What ethics?  Whats the reason?  I don't get it.
Command:



> I believe in smart coding styles like programs that are flexible,
> modular, top-down design bottom-up implemented, and can "sense"
> the environment before they continue execution...

Very good, CS201 right?

> Imagine doesn't
Command:
> seem to do this...

 Sense the environment..yeah, probably not from the bugs we've been hearing
about.  But those smart coding styles...that would be tough to say, with out
looking at their code.

> the program's binaries to make it support resolutions like 1280x1024...
> The programmer could have at least had Imagine determine how much memory
> is available for graphics, what chipset is being used, what the current
> screen resolution is, how many colors are possible, etc. and change the
Command:
> global variables to reflect the environment... But no... The programmer
> has to hard-code the magic numbers in that choose only one of two resolutions
> (hires and hires-lace).. It is what we call "Poor Software Design".

I agree with most of that last paragraph(imagine that), until the last point.
That is not what I call poor design.  Just choice.  Bad design is like you said
above, not modular, not top down, lots of gotos. Its low on my wish list
anyway.

> I bet the programmer(s??) of Imagine doesn't even have a Masters,
Command:
> Probably not even a bachelors... It is so obvious..

  Poor guy, can't even defend himself...Hell if he doens't have a bachelors,
then all the more credit to him/her.  BTW, why is it obvious?  I must have
missed something.

>
> /***********************************************************************
> ** Kiernan Holland, [e-mail], [e-mail] **
> ** (University Of New Mexico - Los Alamos Branch Computer AIDE)       **
Command:
> ** "If it doesn't work, turn it off/on or ask me to watch."           **
> ***********************************************************************/
>
What exactly does a Computer AIDE do anyway?  Other than post to the net all
day?

BTW, how did you come to know so much?  Do you have a BS?  MS?  PHD?  How
old are you?   Just curious.  I have a BS in CS working on my MS in CE.  Work
for Motorola as Software Engineer where we do "good" Software design(top down
and all that other fun stuff). What is chicoma.lanl.gov? Is that a part of
Command:
the University?


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3854 Re: Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/17/93 09:14 99/ [e-mail] (Devon Miller)
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Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 01:32:47 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

|Now where the f*ck did I say that AMiga software was sh*t...
|I said AMiga users don't complain enough to push the programmers and
|companies..  Like, CBM just expects thier users to kiss thier beautiful
|butts everytime they release a model, just like mac users do with Apple.
|If the users compalin about the computers, CBM would work harder to
|impress the users.. They don't have a chance in the world to enter the PC
|market successfully, they now know that the Amiga is where it is at...
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|They are not going to abandon the Amiga platform... I think that
|is what most Amiga users are afraid of, therefore they kiss *ss...

|                    Then again I would rather have an Amiga developer
|tha makes an effort to make bug-free, defect free, understandable software
|(like most MAC software) rather than just make revisions when the users
|complain... That is about how it goes on the Amiga...
|Either they look for errors deliberately, or they wait for the errors
|to come knocking at their door... Impulse should clear up thier
|errors before they upgrade thier software... It will make it easier
Command:
|on both them and the users, however they seem to be doing it the
|more screwy disorganized way... Hunt and hack...

|I believe in smart coding styles like programs that are flexible,
|modular, top-down design bottom-up implemented, and can "sense"
|the environment before they continue execution... Imagine doesn't
|seem to do this... Otherwise it would be capable of running
|on a PC or whatever, and you would not need to replace register values in
|the program's binaries to make it support resolutions like 1280x1024...
|The programmer could have at least had Imagine determine how much memory
Command:
|is available for graphics, what chipset is being used, what the current
|screen resolution is, how many colors are possible, etc. and change the
|global variables to reflect the environment... But no... The programmer
|has to hard-code the magic numbers in that choose only one of two resolutions
|(hires and hires-lace).. It is what we call "Poor Software Design".
|I bet the programmer(s??) of Imagine doesn't even have a Masters,
|Probably not even a bachelors... It is so obvious..

I promised myself I would stay out of this, but I'd like to try and head
off an Amiga v. PC bashfest like comp.graphics has been seeing...
Command:

First off, regarding CBM trying harder...

Kiernan said, "If the users compalin about the computers, CBM would work
harder to impress the users."

CBM is a rather unusual company.  The CEO & president, Mehdi Ali, calls all
of the shots.  All of them.  His decisions reflect where he thinks he can
make money next *quarter*.  Not next year.  Not the next 5 years.  The next
3 months.  What the engineers design and what the company releases often have
Command:
little in common.  The first spec. for the AA machine (1200 & 4000) called for
up to 8M of graphics memory and an on-board DSP with CODECs for audio and
telephone.  Look at what actually shipped.  The first design for what became
the 4000 called for a machine with an '030, SCSI and DSP on board, and in a
package that would retail for $995.  Instead out came the 4000 at ~$2800.

How do I know this?  I used to work there.  I was layed off in this year's
second downsizing in April.  As for CBM abandoning the Amiga, they may not
need to.)  They may abandon the business world first.  (For those that haven't
heard, CBM posted a first quarter loss of ~$177 million.  This prompted the 3rd
Command:
round of layoffs last Friday.  Companywide it amounted to ~65% staff reduction.)

As for buggy Amiga programs...

Have you written much SW for the Amiga?  How about the PC?  I've written for
both.   SW can be very portable between the two *IF* you plan to support that
from the outset.  SW that's written expressly for the PC is painful to port to
the Amiga, and vice versa.  On the Amiga, you query the display database for
the type of screen you want (resolution, number of colors, PAL/NTSC, etc) and
you are given a "magic number"  that you pass to the OS's display routines.
Command:
That's what you're seeing being mimiced in the PC.  I'm sure they used good
(or at least reasonable) development practices, but those were focused on the
Amiga environment.  Given the choice, I'd much rather port between the PC and
UNIX (either direction) than port between either of those and the Amiga.

Remember, the original Amiga team was building a game machine, not a micro-
computer.  They apparently saw nothing to be gained by modeling their OS
interface after anyone else.  The engineers at CBM have tried to improve
things, but that is difficult without throwing a lot of stuff out and starting
over.  The changes they have made have been for the better, but SW written
Command:
for one version of the interface will either not run or not run correctly on
a different version.  Also, compatability testing requires that you keep
some machines running with older (probably buggier) OS versions.  Which
translates to machines you can't use for development, only test.

I'm trying not to defend or accuse anyone here, I'm just trying to present
the facts of the situation.  Anything that was written expressly for one
environment is going to take time to get working correctly in another.  If
you want to be able to run on both Amiga & PC you need to design that in
early on.  The game "Lemmings 2" is one example that comes to mind of a
Command:
program designed for either environment.

Devon
--
Devon Miller   ______   "If a person offend you, and you are in doubt as to
               \    /    whether it was intentional or not, do not resort to
                \  /     extreme measures; simply watch your chance and hit
[e-mail]    \/      him with a brick."  -- Twain

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3855 Re: A general question
6/17/93 11:01 11/ [e-mail] (Jeffrey Walkup)
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>           I am feeling empathy for Dave W. - who, time and time again
>           has told people how to unscribe, only to be IGNORED!!

Agreed.  Actually, Dave has a great idea on how to make people remember
the correct method - involving a certain memorable GIF with a text
overlay.  Dave? ;^)

--
Jeff Walkup, Digital Animator / Videographer | Energy = Matter = Spacetime
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 [e-mail] - San Francisco   |         ERLEICHDA!
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3856 Re: New subscriber w/ questions
6/17/93 11:19 32/ [e-mail] (Jeffrey Walkup)
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>       My second question is haw can I get Imagine to make
> an anim that can be loaded into DPaint 4.  If I make a
> project in ANIM format and load the anim into DPaint, the
> frames degrade in successive frames until the anim looks
> like colored TV static.

You need to lock the palette to that of the first frame; DPaint
doesn't handle ANIMs with separate palettes for each frame, as
Imagine will generate by default.  When you start rendering the
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ANIM, Imagine *should* ask you "Lock the palette?".  Say 'yes'.
(Reason I say *should* is that, I swear, sometimes it doesn't ask.
Try messing with the Viewmode properties.)


> In a similar vein, if I play an
> anim using AmigaVision, it plays fine until the last few or
> the very last frame.  The frames then turn into static-like
> pictures.

Command:
Now this sounds like a loop-frames problem.  You probably either:
1) Don't have loop-frames, and AV is expecting them.  Or:
2) You do have loop-frames, but AV is NOT expecting them.
Either way, you'll get garbage when the animation reaches the end and
loops back to the beginning.
If there is an option in AV to deal with loop-frames, turn it on or off,
see what happens.  If there isn't such an option in AV, it is probably
expecting loop-frames on all animations, so you'll have to add them.

--
Command:
Jeff Walkup, Digital Animator / Videographer | Energy = Matter = Spacetime
 [e-mail] - San Francisco   |         ERLEICHDA!
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3857 Re: Changes changes changes
6/17/93 12:25 63/ [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)
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>
>
> YeeeHaw Imagineers!  :-)
>
>
> Since our system upgrade here, you may have noticed
> the address
>
> [e-mail]
>
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Command:
> showing up on posts. You might see this in the header
> under the from line. (Not the from: line!)
>
> Nevermind... the thing to keep in mind is this-
>
> When you REPLY to a message, be certain that it's
> being sent to
>
> imagine
>
Command:
> NOT
>
> imagine-relay
>
>
> If you respond to imagine-relay, the message will be
> forwarded to _me_ privately, not to the IML.
> The imagine-relay address is there so that posters no
> longer need to put up with getting back all those ugly
> bounce reports. The errors only get sent back to me for
Command:
> administrative purposes.
>
> So... to make a long story short...
> never let your REPLY get sent to imagine-relay, nobody will see it.
>
This is a very bad thing for me, and perhaps for others as well.  elm, my
Unix mailer, picks up imagine-relay, since that's who actually sent the
message here.  Personally, I'd rather see bounces and be able to reply
directly, rather than having to check and see which mailing list a message
is from and possibly manually override the address!
Command:

elm is not an uncommon mailer.  Surely I'm not the only one with this
problem?  I do know that none of other half-dozen lists I am on have
done this...

> Make sure it goes to good 'ole
> [e-mail]
>
>
> As always...use [e-mail]  for
Command:
> subscriptions...unsubscriptions...address changes...blah blah blah.
>
>
> Dave Wickard  [phone]   "I have created genetically-altered
> [e-mail]        prehistoric sausage links, living breathing
> [e-mail]       prehistoric bacon..millions of years old,
>                                 and most amazingly, carnivorous prehistoric
>                                 Armour sliced and canned ham packed in water."
>           -from my upcoming novella / animation "Dave Wickard's Jurassic Pork"
>
Command:
>
_john

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3858 Re: Fred Fish
6/17/93 12:33 32/ [e-mail] (Jean Pepin)
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[e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan) writes:

>-------------------------------
>Soo what... can I get it on the Internet??? Well it might as well be
>nonexistent...  Can I get it on CDROM??? I can gte Fred Fish disks
>on CDROM.. You see, that is why Fred Fish is so popular...
>I could probably start my own public domain collection... I do have over 600
>floppy disks... A big burden to me that is why I am getting a CDROM drive.

No internet nor CDROM.
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>I would be interested to see what you have but there is no way I would
>pay for it... Unless it all came on a CDROM..
>The Aminet archive has about 80-100 megs of modules at least... It now
>comes on CDROM. AB20 had a lot of stuff.. It is on CDROM. If you wish
>to make yours on a CDROM, contact Walnut Creek, I'm sure they would
>be interested. Personally I have never heard of CAM.. heck I live more than
>1000 miles away, how could I...

You can see CAM contain in French MAG "Amiga News / Amiga DP".
Command:

>/***********************************************************************
>** Kiernan Holland, [e-mail], [e-mail] **
>** (University Of New Mexico - Los Alamos Branch Computer AIDE)       **
>** "If it doesn't work, turn it off/on or ask me to watch."           **
>***********************************************************************/
--
\***  CCC AAA M   M  CLUB AMIGA MONTREAL           ------- Internet -------
***   C   A A MM MM  3501 Cote Ste-Catherine #212 |   [e-mail]   |
***** C   AAA M M M  Montreal, Quebec H3T 1Z8      ------------------------
Command:
 ***  CCC A A M   M  [phone]                Jean Pepin -- PRESIDENT
---------------------------Le bon sens c'est CAM-------------------------->
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3859 Changes changes changes
6/17/93 13:10 18/ [e-mail] (William E. Costello)
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>>   This is a very bad thing for me, and perhaps for others as well.  elm, my
>>   Unix mailer, picks up imagine-relay, since that's who actually sent the
>>   message here.  Personally, I'd rather see bounces and be able to reply
>>   directly, rather than having to check and see which mailing list a message
>>   is from and possibly manually override the address!
>>
>>   elm is not an uncommon mailer.  Surely I'm not the only one with this
>>   problem?  I do know that none of other half-dozen lists I am on have
>>   done this...

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I agree, I use the mail interface in emacs, and when I hit reply,
it sends it to both imagine-relay, and imagine.  If I don't remove
the imagine-relay, it will go both places which might annoy you.


bill.
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3860 Wow! I'm a star
6/17/93 14:21 13/ Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>
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Ok, this is totally un-related, but how often does one make it to
national TV?
CNBC is showing some footage they shot here at ZDS on Sunday (June 20)
at 7:00am (EDT) on a show called American Spotlight.
They shot some footage of me running our SMT circuit board assembler
and if it doesn't get cut, you just might get a glimse of the back of
my head! (I'm the sandy brown haired guy)

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program 8-)
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Adam B.

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3861 Re: Grass
6/17/93 14:01 50/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan) writes:
> >  Ya, and I suppose you can write us the code to do it??
> >  I serriously doubt it.

Just because such things are FAR beyond your minimal comprehension or
capabilities doesn't mean that is true of everyone. I designed my first
computer vision system (HW & SW) when you were only halfway through grade
school.

> >  you really aren't using up memory like you would if you were actually
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Command:
> >  copying objects.

Memory usage is only part of the problem. Rendering is a BIG issue. Particle
systems can accomplish these tasks many times faster and can easily take
advantage of "data amplification" techniques which minimizes the modeling
required by the animator.

> >  There was a animation I saw where some instantiated
> >  several manequins on unicycles to infinity.

Command:
Yes, it was done on an 800 MFLOP AT&T Pixel Machine. And as Charles Congdon
pointed out, this is a bit different from the case of grass.

Charles Congdon writes:
> particle systems require memory to track each particle (the amount depends on
> the complexity of your particle simulation).  The results, however, can be
> *very* satisfying.

An excellent example of this technique can be found in the '85 Siggraph
proceedings (pg. 313) where Bill Reeves details work done at Lucasfilm
Command:
to model trees, grass, and fire. The accompanying pics are quite nice
and one is a still from an animation of a tall grass field in which the
wind blows the blades about. Render time was on the order of a couple hours
using a VAX 11/750, a truly slow machine by todays standards.

If Kiernan thinks he can accomplish this with polygonally modeled grass
blades, I challenge him to do it. The image in Avid done with Raydance
(no relation to Radiance) had only a couple square feet of grass which
cost over a million polygons and 25 hours of rendering. LightWave comes
closer to a viable solution because it supports 2D particles or lines.
Command:
I ran a test last night which filled about a 100 square meters with tall
grass (textured lines) and it took under 10 minutes. It was still a far
cry from a field.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3862 C code in postings
6/17/93 14:25 12/ [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)
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hi,
can people either*not* post lengthy C code stuff here, or at least warn
us in the headings that you are doing so, so we can avoid having to read
them ?

thanks,
kevin
btw(since this is the IMAGINE list :-))
is the PC version of Imagine currently the same as the amiga 2.0 release,
or does it contain some goodies we can look forward to in 3.0 ? Some PC guys
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I know are interested in using Imagine instead of 3d Studio, and need advice...

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3863 Re: Re: Buggy Pc Imagine
6/18/93 01:55 67/ Santi Lo Monaco <[e-mail]>
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(I do not use a mail-reader, so will not quote anybody)

Regarding what Mark asked about Impulse actually telling me something
about free upgrade to Imagine ver.3, naaahhh not really, they never even
admitted it did not work, somebody on the phone looked like offended when i
said:
(quote myself) "thought you had produced a serious port".
I was stating that they HAVE to upgrade for free the user of the current
PC
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Command:
version, because it simply does not work, simple and easy fact!
When i started this thread, was a bit scared i was the only person in the
whole cyber-world who could not get imagine to work on the pc, then i
realized, assuming yhe list as a universe, actually ONE single person
(1-one-) has posted a message affirming he is happyly working with imagine.
I mean, if i buy a thing for xxx unit of money, it is reasonable i expect
to
obtain xxx unit of utility, (intro to economics), well i was not
complaining
about some non measurable aspects of the software in question, iwas saying
Command:
the thing is somehow broken, it ddoe not give me any utility because i
cannot
trust working for two hours on something that is going to dissappear
at the touch of the mouse or at the click of a control box or wathewer
action it goes out to lunch!
Come on be fair, it would simply be fair business practice giva us a
working version, wheter it'll be called 2, 2.1, 2.3,....3.87 i do not care.


About the marketing branch stemmed out the same thread, my point is:
Command:
I would love to have at my desk a Mac, a Next, an Amiga, (why not) one big
Silicon Graphics etc etc, bad luck  i started computing as a business
student and
my teacher requested all papers in WS4 format...so life goes, since then i
stuck to IBM world, and i don't know a thing how Impulse prices their
product but
i believe everything is worth precisely the amount of money somebody is
willing to shell out, this is another fact, so never mind the usual hype
around softwareand "supporting" somebody , that's plain bull. Never
intended to enjoy computing as a charity medium.
Command:
BTW the last simple fact: PoV is a great product, is in the pubblic domain
(ie
it is not shareware), Vivid is even better for Image quality and scripting
language maybe loses some point in range, Rayshade is precisely gorgeus and
there are some rel good modelers around to avoid the pain of scripting: for
PoV check
Moray (written by a german guy) which has got almost everything other
modelers
even commercial one do not. In Moray you will find:
4 ports views with camera following your work (not strolling around the
Command:
universelookind for girlfriend cameras)
Bezier Patches with as many control points as you want
Visual Texture editing
CSG, sweeps and a lot of features that make it great.
Download: mray.zip
from: ftp.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de
dir: pub/dkbtrace/incoming/


Ciao
Command:
Santi Lo Monaco ([e-mail])

P.S.
I would gladly accept some job in our field of interest (graphics related
companies, video production and or marketing) but do not rush, my mailbox
will keep up
with just 300 messages each session.
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3864 Re: Grass / Siggraph
6/18/93 10:04 17/ Jacek Artymiak <[e-mail]>
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move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

In-Reply-To:  <[e-mail]>

>An excellent example of this technique can be found in the '85 Siggraph
>proceedings (pg. 313) where Bill Reeves details work done at Lucasfilm
>to model trees, grass, and fire. The accompanying pics are quite nice
>and one is a still from an animation of a tall grass field in which the
>wind blows the blades about. Render time was on the order of a couple hours
>using a VAX 11/750, a truly slow machine by todays standards.

-----
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Is there any way of getting hold of the Siggraph papers? I live in the UK and
can't attend the conference.

TIA,


Jacek
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3865 Any experience with DPS PAR ?
6/18/93 06:13 7/ Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 7 of 7 (100%)
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Now that some time is gone by and DPS is availible I want to ask
you people out there if there are any experiences with this board.

Any comments appreciated
Thanks a lot
Hannes

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3866 Getting to business
6/18/93 06:25 34/ Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 34 (29%)
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-----
Hi folks,

now I am using Imagine for about 2 years now. I invested some money
in my computer graphic equipment and now I want some money to
come back to me :-) This means I want to make some money with the
spots I produce.

Now I want to know from you who are already producing spots for money

        to which kind of persons/companies do you sell your spots
-----
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        how much do you take (average)

        how long do you work on one spot

        has anyone produced cinema spots ?

        how much equipment do you use (computers / software)

        are you working in a group or alone
Command:

        do you use selfmade soundtracks

Now I know that these questions are very private !!!!!!
I understand completely that you can - if only - answer them more
general but it would be very important to me as I have some problems
in defining the right group of companies to which I can sell spots.
So I don't need names or exact numbers, I need general info about
how to get in touch with the right people.

Command:
So any info will be a great help to me

Hannes

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3867 Re: Changes changes changes
6/18/93 05:23 34/ David [e-mail], GraphX head <[e-mail]>
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move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
> > So... to make a long story short...
> > never let your REPLY get sent to imagine-relay, nobody will see it.
> >
> This is a very bad thing for me, and perhaps for others as well.  elm, my
> Unix mailer, picks up imagine-relay, since that's who actually sent the
> message here.  Personally, I'd rather see bounces and be able to reply
> directly, rather than having to check and see which mailing list a message
> is from and possibly manually override the address!

No thank you.
-----
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Command:

If you use the openwindows mail tool, and select respond to all it will go
to [e-mail], the sender of the article you are
responding to, and [e-mail].  This is cool by me and
if needed I can quickly delete the original senders address so he does not
have to read it twice, as well as the relay address so Dave does not have to
read it twice.

In elm it does default the To: line to [e-mail],
but it does ask you who you want to send copies to (i.e. cc:) so
Command:
simply type in [e-mail] when prompted.

This little bit of extra effort on your part saves a ton of bandwidth and
everyone from reading the bounce messages from hell.

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
Command:
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3868 Re: Wow! I'm a star
6/18/93 05:32 28/ David [e-mail], GraphX head <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 28 (35%)
-----
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text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
> Ok, this is totally un-related, but how often does one make it to
> national TV?

Pretty often. :)

In 1989 I was the "i" dotter in the Script Ohio formation done by
the Ohio State Marching Band at the Hall of Fame bowl, at which we got
whoopped by Auburn on NBC (national coverage).

Bob Costas' on-the-field guy intervied me, which was shown during the
-----
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Command:
footage of it's execution.

So, if any of you guys have it on tape... run and see how young and dazed
I look.

To make this imagine related... I thanked Impulse for their support in my
interview.

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Command:
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3869 Re: Changes changes changes (fwd)
6/18/93 07:02 24/ "Rob (R.D.) Hounsell" <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 24 (41%)
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move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Folks,

Forwarded message:

> elm is not an uncommon mailer.  Surely I'm not the only one with this
> problem?  I do know that none of other half-dozen lists I am on have
> done this...

  I use elm exclusively. All I do is forward the message to my Imagine alias,
which gets around any "reply" issue. I'm very glad I no longer get the #$@&
-----
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Command:
error / can't forward / no such person mail back: Thanks, Dave!

Rob
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Rob Hounsell                          INTERNET:  [e-mail]            |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

"...Then anyone who leaves behind him a written manual, and likewise
anyone who receives it, in the belief that such writing will be clear
Command:
and certain, must be exceedingly simple-minded..."

                Plato

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3870 Two Requests...
6/18/93 07:38 25/ Mark Marino <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 25 (40%)
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-----

Hey Guys,

  I have two requests to make:

  1) Can any of you guys with Icoons please let the rest of us know
where to find it on the Internet (if it exists on the net)?  I did an
archie search but it turned up nothing.

 -and-
-----
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Command:

  2) Can we hold back from erupting into any major flame wars?  I see
trouble brewing here since the last few days and I'm hoping we can
curtail it before we get into some major bandwidth squandering.  If you
feel you must let loose some stinging comments about somebody's post,
send it to the sender, not the list.

<off my soapbox>
Mark

Command:
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                                                                             |
| Mark Marino              | [e-mail]           |  uunet!osf!omar         |
| Open Software Foundation | 11 Cambridge Center    |  Cambridge, MA 02142    |
|_____________________________________________________________________________|
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3871 Floating Point Gurus
6/18/93 07:12 26/ "Rob (R.D.) Hounsell" <[e-mail]>
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-----
Dudes && || Dudettes,

  I often experience a problem on my Amiga sometimes while rendering under
Imagine 2.0 that I figure is due to my home-made accellerator but will ask
anyway:

  Has anyone been experiencing guru mediations that indicate either a memory
error or co-processor illegal instruction? This happens often enough that I
cannot set up a sequence of frames to render before I go to bed and have any
confidence at all that it will be finished the next morning (i.e. it will have
-----
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Command:
crashed after several frames). It seems to happen by far most often when
running rendering in Imagine, although that could just be because it works the
system the hardest.

  As I said, I expect that there is a timing problem within my A1000 - LUCAS
accellerator - FRANCES memory expansion setup (PD Hardware), but you never
know. I've taken a logic analyzer as far as it will go; I've arranged access to
a 68020 in-circuit emulator, but due to wedding plans have been too busy to try
it.

Command:
Thx
Rob
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Rob Hounsell                          INTERNET:  [e-mail]            |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3872 Re: Any experience with DPS PAR ?
6/18/93 07:06 27/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 27 (37%)
-----
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move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
> Now that some time is gone by and DPS is availible I want to ask
> you people out there if there are any experiences with this board.

Mine hasn't arrived yet, but I did go check one out at a local dealer.
First off, I liked the interface; clean, professional, and pretty intuitive.
The output imagery was good and writing/compressing images to the device
was transparent and fast (a few seconds per frame). You wrote to it like
it was any drive in the system. As for compression, apparently it can be
controlled both during recording and playback. To control compression ratios,
it allows a quality factor from 0-23. Apparently when you are rendering,
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you set it to 23 and it will choose the best value it can on playback to
maintain 30fps. You would only set it lower than 23 when doing real time video
capture with the TBC4. For playback, Q16 had very noticeable artifacts around
areas of high detail. Q23 looked very clean (not flawless) and Q18-Q20 looked
pretty good. I would say that it doesn't seem that this device could match
a BetaSP tape deck, but it does look pretty darn good. Further tests with a
high quality deck and realtime output are necessary to fully evaluate it.
Note that even though DPS states that the algorithm they are using is not
JPEG, it is enough like JPEG to exhibit similar style artifacts, ie. little
fuzzy squares around contrasty details.
Command:
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3873 Re: stuff
6/18/93 08:55 31/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 31 (32%)
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-----

On Wed, 16 Jun 1993, Mr. Scott Krehbiel wrote:

> I realize in re-reading my earlier post that I wasn't at all clear
> in what I was saying.  I hate it when I do that!
>
> What I was wowed by was the amount of control that Wavefront gives
> you over rendering.  I'm still learning this stuff, so pardon me
> if I get my facts mixed up, but anyway... in Wave, each vertex

-----
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 <stuff deleted>
>
> The neat thing is that you have total control over what's happening
> in the shader.  You don't just turn smoothing off and on, you can
> set which way each normal points (at least that is what I'm told -
> I haven't learned how to do that yet).  Trust me - Imagine can't
> touch this!  Wavefront makes Imagine's renderer look like a bunch
> of canned effects.
>
> Scott
Command:

So what is your point here?
Unfortunately us mere mortals don't have the money to get Wavefront. In
fact if I had the money I'd rather get Alias and/or TDI.

Nik.

[e-mail]


Command:

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3874 Oh, where have all the pictures gone???
6/18/93 09:25 14/ [e-mail] (Brian Ridout)
Lines 1 to 10 of 14 (71%)
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-----

Hi all,

        I would like to know where the new ftp site is for uploading
and down loading imagine pictures.  I know hubcap is gone now and
that someone has picked up the slack.  I thought it was wuarchive.
However, I looked in systems/amiga/incoming/gfx and imagine, they
are empty.

Thanks for any help.  I would like to see the newest stuff coming
-----
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from this list.  As well as uploading some of my own.

Brian Ridout
[e-mail]
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3875 Re: Two Requests...
6/18/93 09:25 36/ [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)
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-----
>
>
> Hey Guys,
>
>   I have two requests to make:
>
>   1) Can any of you guys with Icoons please let the rest of us know
> where to find it on the Internet (if it exists on the net)?  I did an
> archie search but it turned up nothing.
>
-----
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Command:
I got mine from that there German archive site which has all the Aminet
stuff on it.  Can't remember the exact name at the moment, sorry.  I think
it's now on Fish, too.

>  -and-
>
>   2) Can we hold back from erupting into any major flame wars?  I see
> trouble brewing here since the last few days and I'm hoping we can
> curtail it before we get into some major bandwidth squandering.  If you
> feel you must let loose some stinging comments about somebody's post,
Command:
> send it to the sender, not the list.
>
I would have loved to reply to you directly, but your address was not
passed along with your post.  :-(

> <off my soapbox>
> Mark
>
>  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> |                                                                             |
Command:
> | Mark Marino              | [e-mail]           |  uunet!osf!omar         |
> | Open Software Foundation | 11 Cambridge Center    |  Cambridge, MA 02142    |
> |_____________________________________________________________________________|
>
_john

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3876 Re: Changes changes changes
6/18/93 09:13 21/ John J Humpal <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 21 (47%)
-----
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-----
John T. Grieggs writes:
>
> This is a very bad thing for me, and perhaps for others as well.  elm, my
> Unix mailer, picks up imagine-relay, since that's who actually sent the
> message here.  Personally, I'd rather see bounces and be able to reply
> directly, rather than having to check and see which mailing list a message
> is from and possibly manually override the address!
>
        My system also uses elm, but I don't see the changes as "very
bad," just inconvenient.  But that's the way it has always been.  In
-----
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Command:
the past, if I simply replied to list mail, my reply was sent to the
person, not the list, so I always had to edit the sender line manually.
The way I see it, that hasn't changed.
        Have you looked into any other mailers on your system.  I know
pine is also available here on jhunix and your system might also have
alternatives.
--
-John

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer
Command:

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3877 Re: Fred Fish
6/18/93 09:20 28/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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-----
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-----

On 16 Jun 1993, Jean Pepin wrote:

>
> Sorry but CAM disk are well organized, each number are theme classifed, a
> number can contain up to 5 disk full of compressed data, the collection
> reach 775 number, far more than 1000 disk, contain some theme like, DTP
> fonts, Objects 3d, Pictures, music modules, Vector clip art, Animations, who
> are praticly inexistant in Fish, also all data are tested and judged for
> quality. Fish disk is the well know PD collection, not the only one.
-----
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>
> Attention: this is just information, not a revision or publicity, i'm the
> CAM maker. :)
> --
> \***  CCC AAA M   M  CLUB AMIGA MONTREAL           ------- Internet -------
> ***   C   A A MM MM  3501 Cote Ste-Catherine #212 |   [e-mail]   |
> ***** C   AAA M M M  Montreal, Quebec H3T 1Z8      ------------------------
>  ***  CCC A A M   M  [phone]                Jean Pepin -- PRESIDENT
> ---------------------------Le bon sens c'est CAM-------------------------->

Command:
Well, where can these be obtained apart directly from the club ?

Nik.

[e-mail]



Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3878 RE: Floating Point GURUS
6/18/93 11:37 38/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 38 (26%)
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move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

----- Begin Included Message -----
Dudes && || Dudettes,
  Has anyone been experiencing guru mediations that indicate either a memory
error or co-processor illegal instruction? This happens often enough that I
cannot set up a sequence of frames to render before I go to bed and have any
confidence at all that it will be finished the next morning (i.e. it will have
crashed after several frames). It seems to happen by far most often when
running rendering in Imagine, although that could just be because it works the
system the hardest.
-----
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subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

  As I said, I expect that there is a timing problem within my A1000 - LUCAS
accellerator - FRANCES memory expansion setup (PD Hardware), but you never
know. I've taken a logic analyzer as far as it will go; I've arranged access to
a 68020 in-circuit emulator, but due to wedding plans have been too busy to try
it.

----- End Included Message -----

Well bob,
Command:
        funny you should mention it...:)

I had no end of trouble like this about a year and a half ago. Basically to
cut a long and painful story shortish, I bought an accellerator from a UK
company called Solid State Leisure, a B5000-40, which was a 40Mhz 030 with a
55Mhz 68882. After a lot of crap getting a working one, I still had problems.
It would run any program you like... (sarcastic pause :) for about an hour.
It would then crash with a guru lik 8000000B.345345973 <- the 8...0B is the bit
I remember the rest is make believe. Anyway, SSL insisted it was a bug in
Imagine, and I insisted that it wasnt so I am in the process of blasting their
Command:
collective arse in court, and me a poor little undergrad! I dont know what it
was that was cuasing the problem, but alot of people have said that the
SSL board did not DMA properly when used with commodores 2091 card.

Any help? Probably not, but well you have my sympathy and admiration if you
made your own accelerator card!

Jason..
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3879 Re: Floating Point Gurus
6/18/93 09:21 37/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 37 (27%)
-----
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text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>
> Dudes && || Dudettes,
>
>   I often experience a problem on my Amiga sometimes while rendering under
> Imagine 2.0 that I figure is due to my home-made accellerator but will ask
> anyway:
>
>   Has anyone been experiencing guru mediations that indicate either a memory
> error or co-processor illegal instruction? This happens often enough that I
> cannot set up a sequence of frames to render before I go to bed and have any
-----
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subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
> confidence at all that it will be finished the next morning (i.e. it will have
> crashed after several frames). It seems to happen by far most often when
> running rendering in Imagine, although that could just be because it works the
> system the hardest.
>
There was a problem with an early version of Imagine 2.0, which would cause
it to crash at random while rendering scenes with curved transparent surfaces.

Does your scene have anything like that?

Command:
What size is your Imagine binary?

>   As I said, I expect that there is a timing problem within my A1000 - LUCAS
> accellerator - FRANCES memory expansion setup (PD Hardware), but you never
> know. I've taken a logic analyzer as far as it will go; I've arranged access to
> a 68020 in-circuit emulator, but due to wedding plans have been too busy to try
> it.
>
> Thx
> Rob
Command:
> --
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | Rob Hounsell                          INTERNET:  [e-mail]            |
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>
_john

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3880 Re: Changes changes changes
6/18/93 09:19 58/ [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)
Lines 1 to 10 of 58 (17%)
-----
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move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>
> > > So... to make a long story short...
> > > never let your REPLY get sent to imagine-relay, nobody will see it.
> > >
> > This is a very bad thing for me, and perhaps for others as well.  elm, my
> > Unix mailer, picks up imagine-relay, since that's who actually sent the
> > message here.  Personally, I'd rather see bounces and be able to reply
> > directly, rather than having to check and see which mailing list a message
> > is from and possibly manually override the address!
>
-----
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Command:
> No thank you.
>
Your choice.  I disagree strongly.  Most lists don't have this problem.  I
wonder why?  The Lightwave list certainly doesn't have it to this degree,
and is easily as active.

> If you use the openwindows mail tool, and select respond to all it will go
> to [e-mail], the sender of the article you are
> responding to, and [e-mail].  This is cool by me and
> if needed I can quickly delete the original senders address so he does not
Command:
> have to read it twice, as well as the relay address so Dave does not have to
> read it twice.
>
I don't use openwindows.  We're an X shop.  I also read mail from my Amiga
and my PC at various times.  Also, I note that I recieved two copies of
your reply - not real elegant, dude!

I did a group reply to your message - wonder how many copies will go out?

> In elm it does default the To: line to [e-mail],
Command:
> but it does ask you who you want to send copies to (i.e. cc:) so
> simply type in [e-mail] when prompted.
>
> This little bit of extra effort on your part saves a ton of bandwidth and
> everyone from reading the bounce messages from hell.
>
This "little effort" is not so little.  For one thing, I am active on several
lists, not just this one, and this is the only one with this problem.  So,
let's see the process...  I read a message, perhaps something about ISL, of
which I am the author, and decide to help.  Hmmm, now which list was that
Command:
one from?  Imagine?  Bah, let him fumble...

For another, elm won't send a message without a To: line, right?

I think the right solution is for bad addresses to be removed from the list
at the first bounce.

>              _     ___
> David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
> Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-
Command:
>
> --
> David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
> "Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
>  blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
>                         - Car and Driver, January 1993
>

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3881 Re: Floating Point Gurus
6/18/93 10:05 46/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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From [e-mail] Fri Jun 18 11:04:12 1993
From: [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)
Subject: Re: Floating Point Gurus
To: [e-mail] (Rob)
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 9:21:49 PDT
Cc: [e-mail]
In-Reply-To:  <"4240 Fri Jun 18 10:12:33 1993"@bnr.ca> ; from "Rob" at Jun 18, 93 2:12 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.2 PL14]

>
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> Dudes && || Dudettes,
>
>   I often experience a problem on my Amiga sometimes while rendering under
> Imagine 2.0 that I figure is due to my home-made accellerator but will ask
> anyway:
>
>   Has anyone been experiencing guru mediations that indicate either a memory
> error or co-processor illegal instruction? This happens often enough that I
> cannot set up a sequence of frames to render before I go to bed and have any
> confidence at all that it will be finished the next morning (i.e. it will have
Command:
> crashed after several frames). It seems to happen by far most often when
> running rendering in Imagine, although that could just be because it works the
> system the hardest.
>
There was a problem with an early version of Imagine 2.0, which would cause
it to crash at random while rendering scenes with curved transparent surfaces.

Does your scene have anything like that?

What size is your Imagine binary?
Command:

>   As I said, I expect that there is a timing problem within my A1000 - LUCAS
> accellerator - FRANCES memory expansion setup (PD Hardware), but you never
> know. I've taken a logic analyzer as far as it will go; I've arranged access to
> a 68020 in-circuit emulator, but due to wedding plans have been too busy to try
> it.
>
> Thx
> Rob
> --
Command:
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | Rob Hounsell                          INTERNET:  [e-mail]            |
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>
_john

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3882 Re: Getting to business
6/18/93 10:20 24/ Naked Man <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 24 (41%)
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  Howdy, Hannes:
    I, too, have been using Imagine since it's creation.  I've recently
    been having an affair with Caligari24, but your predicament is more
    than common.  I am convinced that anyone wanting to earn money off of
    animatics or videographics need have an initial investment of no less
    than ten grand to do work of a quality meriting actual pay.  I've had a
    few lucky breaks, though:  A local cable company bought a Dpaint Anim
    that I made for a local dealer for a meager but welcome $250.  I'm
    currently doing some work worth thousands right now for free.  This is
    one case were exposure is as good as gold. (that DEMO reel is going to
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    be the only thing some houses will care about, you know!)
      It occurs to me, though, that the pssibilities are quite boundless
      provided that you have the means.  I desire to marry computer
      animatics with education (instructional technology).  Of course, any
      local schmoes who run businesses in your community may advertise on
      the local cable company.  Rattle their cage for some business.  Hires
      Dpaint anims seem to work out just dandy, and they're usually just
      Fascinated wid all der blinkin lights and whistles you can pull out
      of your hat.  Give them something worthwhile and new. Much more to
      say, but I'm drifting off topic for the list, so please keep in touch
Command:
      in personal correspondence if you want to continue this thread.
   Anybody, for that matter!  take care
   wes~

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3883 Thread Rot
6/18/93 10:52 29/ John Foust / Syndesis Corporation <[e-mail]
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To: [e-mail]

I've had my fill of non-Imagine-related messages!  Useful content is
approaching zero.  I don't want to wade through a "message" that's
composed of a previous message, quoted, followed by "Gee, that's a
good question."  (I do realize this is the Internet, and by law,
useful information can't exceed 3 percent per message.)

If you don't know what IDE is or what it stands for, don't ask here.
This is not the place to debug your PC.  Mailer and elm questions
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should be solved in private mail with the list administrator.  Read
the FAQ and learn how to subscribe and unsubscribe.  I don't care if
you've been on television.

I don't think a signature is necessary, and should never be more than
one or two lines.  I don't want to see your prowess with ASCII
graphics.  If I'm curious about your favorite soda or car, I'll ask,
OK?  Otherwise, I don't want to know, and I don't want to read about
it every three days, or even three times a day, kholland.  And for
heaven's sake, you don't need to quote the other person's signature,
Command:
too.

This is not the POV or Wavefront or metaballs or Radiance or Rayshade
mailing list.  I don't want to hear about your favorite user group's
collection of PD disks.

Enough!  Enough!


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3884 Bla in Trace mode ?, help !
6/18/93 13:03 13/ Florence Ormezzano <[e-mail]>
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Hello !, I need help !
I have an irregular sphere and an object inside. I checked the size of
the sphere, it's around 900.0000 and I checked the size of the world, and
set it for 1024.0000...the camera is inside the sphere with two lights,
one spherical (& diminish intensity) one cylindrical (& cast shadows). Now
when I render in scanline mode its fine, but if I render in trace mode
it's BLACK, with a vague grey shape on top of the frame.
Now I don't know what else to do, what to check...anybody who knows?
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Thank you !

[e-mail]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3885 Re: Changes changes changes
6/18/93 13:40 37/ [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)
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>
> John T. Grieggs writes:
> >
> > This is a very bad thing for me, and perhaps for others as well.  elm, my
> > Unix mailer, picks up imagine-relay, since that's who actually sent the
> > message here.  Personally, I'd rather see bounces and be able to reply
> > directly, rather than having to check and see which mailing list a message
> > is from and possibly manually override the address!
> >
>       My system also uses elm, but I don't see the changes as "very
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> bad," just inconvenient.  But that's the way it has always been.  In
> the past, if I simply replied to list mail, my reply was sent to the
> person, not the list, so I always had to edit the sender line manually.
> The way I see it, that hasn't changed.

Actually, that is another good point - I used to use that.  If I wanted
to reply to an individual, I used r (reply), if I wanted it to also go to
the list, I used g (group reply).  With this new change, I no longer see
a way to reply directly to the individual.  The actual address of the
sender is NOT in the header any longer!
Command:

>       Have you looked into any other mailers on your system.  I know
> pine is also available here on jhunix and your system might also have
> alternatives.

elm is the standard mailer for my site.  It runs quite well indeed, and
indeed does the correct thing in this case.  It is the list software
which is doing something odd.

I'd really rather not research and learn another mailer, setting myself
Command:
off from the hundreds of happy elm users here at JPL.

> --
> -John
>
_john

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3886 Re: Phong shading and stuff
6/18/93 06:25 22/ [e-mail] (Scot Schneebeli)
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>
>       There is a shareware 3D modeller called "Icoons" that does exactly this.
>       It lets you model with splines, and then breaks the curves down into
>       polygons for rendering.  The modelling works a lot like
> ------------
> And it is incredibly impossible to learn how to use.. I gave up on it.
> ------------

I didn't think it was all that bad to learn. The documentation's description
of what constituted a surface (which would render vs be open space) helped
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a lot. I gave up on it because it kept making me visit the GURU.

> /***********************************************************************
> ** Kiernan Holland, [e-mail], [e-mail] **
> ** (University Of New Mexico - Los Alamos Branch Computer AIDE)       **
> ** "If it doesn't work, turn it off/on or ask me to watch."           **
> ***********************************************************************/
>

--
Command:
Scot Schneebeli                       <[e-mail]>

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3887 Re: Oh, where have all the pictures gone???
6/18/93 13:56 36/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
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-----


>
>
>Hi all,
>
>       I would like to know where the new ftp site is for uploading
>and down loading imagine pictures.  I know hubcap is gone now and
>that someone has picked up the slack.  I thought it was wuarchive.
>However, I looked in systems/amiga/incoming/gfx and imagine, they
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>are empty.
>
>Thanks for any help.  I would like to see the newest stuff coming
>from this list.  As well as uploading some of my own.
>
>Brian Ridout
>[e-mail]
>
>

Command:
        Check out wuarchive.wustl.edu

        /pub/amiga/incoming/imagine

        off of this is art, anims, and other directorys.  I have placed
most of my old pics and some new ones in the art dir.

                Enjoy!


Command:

--
+======================================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3888 IML archives
6/18/93 15:12 32/ [e-mail] (Marvin Landis)
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John Foust writes:

> I've had my fill of non-Imagine-related messages! ..........(lots deleted)

Well I'm afraid I have been thinking the same thing for over 2 months now.
Since I am the person keeping the IML archives, I have had to make a decision
about this group.  Unfortunately, I have not been using Imagine at all lately
(I hardly even turn my Amiga on anymore), so even the Amiga Imagine discussions
haven't really been beneficial to me.  And I really don't care about PC Imagine
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or all the new graphics cards and peripherals for the Amiga.  There is just
very little useful information for me here anymore.

So I said all that leading up to this.  I have chosen to resign as the archivist
for this group.  I have been doing this for over 2 years now, and I guess I
need to share the fun with someone else.  I will keep the archives until the end
of June, at which time if nobody else has taken over the job, then the archives
will not be updated anymore.  Of course I believe all the messages posted to
the list have all been saved on Portal (that is right, isn't it Harv?), and
there are probably other places saving the messages also.  So the messages
Command:
should exist somewhere, whether I am providing this service or not.

So, if you are looking for instant fame and fortune (hahahaha), send me or
Dave some e-mail expressing your interest in keeping the archives and we can
try to make the transition as smooth as possible.

Marvin Landis
[e-mail]

PS.  BTW, I have several new archives almost ready to be uploaded to wuarchive
Command:
     but I have fallen behind, so they should be ready soon.  I haven't quit
     yet, just getting farther behind.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3889 IML Landfill Update
6/18/93 14:15 20/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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There is a change underway at the IML Landfill (our FTP
site at wuarchive.wustl.edu (128.252.135.4))

According to the powers that be, we will have ONE incoming
directory (pub/amiga/incoming/imagine)
so please use this for your uploads.

Our permanent files have been moved to a new permanent location there
as well (pub/amiga/video/imagine/*)
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so be sure to include this in any of your network
Imagine related searches.

Just thought you'd like to know.  :-)


Dave Wickard  [phone]  "The rats keep winning the Rat Race."
[e-mail]       -Altanta Rhythm Section
[e-mail]
[e-mail]  <--- to subscribe/unsubscribe/change address!
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3890 Re: Any experience with DPS PAR ?
6/18/93 15:15 38/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
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>capture with the TBC4. For playback, Q16 had very noticeable artifacts around
>areas of high detail. Q23 looked very clean (not flawless) and Q18-Q20 looked
>pretty good. I would say that it doesn't seem that this device could match
>a BetaSP tape deck, but it does look pretty darn good. Further tests with a
>high quality deck and realtime output are necessary to fully evaluate it.
>
>

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        Hmmm.. I just got my demo tape in today on VHS.  (to bad it
wasn't SVHS).  Anyhow, I wasn't very impressed.  Though most was due to
the way it was put together.

        1] At least they could have put some music or something behind
it.
        2] The still images with just the text before each animation
looked very poor - ie blury.  I wonder if this was done off a toaster
directly or off the board.

Command:
        3]  The animations looked good, there were definitely no glitches
or problems with playback speed, but everything flickered. ie:
interlaced look...ack!

        I am not sure if this flickering is common to all 24 bit anims,
as i haven't had the opportunity to do much.  Perhaps some one could
point out whether this is an artifact of the device, or just the way
high res anims take to tape.

                        Mike C.
Command:



--
+======================================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3891 Re: IML archives
6/18/93 17:30 34/ [e-mail]
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[...]
>Of course I believe all the messages posted to
>the list have all been saved on Portal (that is right, isn't it Harv?), and
>there are probably other places saving the messages also.  So the messages
>should exist somewhere, whether I am providing this service or not.
>
>Marvin Landis
[...]

I just looked at the "collection" (Portal terminology) that holds the
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Command:
IML here in the Amiga Zone message base and as I type this it has 3661
postings in it. The earliest is dated 18 Nov 19, and I've purged out
errant "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" articles along the way.
I'm not exactly sure when the first postings appeared on the IML
but most of Marvin's archives are online in our library as well going
back as far as he did, so yes, it should all be online here on Portal.
Since our message bases don't scroll off and Portal has given me
2.5 gig of disk space for the Amiga Zone message bases and files with
a promise of more whenever it fills up againI think it's safe to say
that the IML will be available, in its entirety, on Portal for a good
Command:
long time to come.

Portal is, of course, a commercial service, unreachable without a
paid account on it. Anyone can dial 1-408-973-9111 to join or email
me for more info about it.

And Marvin, thanks for your years of devotion to this list. We were
just talking about some of your early Amiga animation work online the
other night (remember your anim about the little house that thinks
it's a hot air balloon? :-). Sad to hear your Amiga is languishing
Command:
now.

Harv
[e-mail]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3892 IMAGINE.question!
6/18/93 19:53 11/ Florence Ormezzano <[e-mail]>
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Hello !, I need help !
I have an irregular sphere and an object inside. I checked the size of
the sphere, it's around 900.0000 and I checked the size of the world, and
set it for 1024.0000...the camera is inside the sphere with two lights,
one spherical (& diminish intensity) one cylindrical (& cast shadows). Now
when I render in scanline mode its fine, but if I render in trace mode
it's BLACK, with a vague grey shape on top of the frame.
Now I don't know what else to do, what to check...anybody who knows ?
Thank you !
-----
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[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3893 Re: Fred Fish
6/18/93 19:33 20/ [e-mail] (Jean Pepin)
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Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]> writes:

>Well, where can these be obtained apart directly from the club ?

>Nik.

>[e-mail]

Editions Le Grand Moulin
5495, rue Aubert
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Trois-Rivieres, Quebec G8Y 5G8
Tel. or FAX: [phone]


--
\***  CCC AAA M   M  CLUB AMIGA MONTREAL           ------- Internet -------
***   C   A A MM MM  3501 Cote Ste-Catherine #212 |   [e-mail]   |
***** C   AAA M M M  Montreal, Quebec H3T 1Z8      ------------------------
 ***  CCC A A M   M  [phone]                Jean Pepin -- PRESIDENT
---------------------------Le bon sens c'est CAM-------------------------->
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3894 Re: Floating Point Gurus
6/19/93 02:22 13/ Evan Kirchhoff <[e-mail]>
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Dave Wickard writes:
> There was a problem with an early version of Imagine 2.0, which would cause
> it to crash at random while rendering scenes with curved transparent surfaces.
>
My problem exactly (I suspected this was an FAQ that would come round
again): a test scene wouldn't raytrace successfully until I removed the
glass cylinder.  I assume I need a software update.
What is Impulse's current customer support number?  I used to have a
number that worked, but it was only on the photocopied update pages
to the 1.0 manual, and I lost those at some point.
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--
Evan Kirchhoff, [e-mail]
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3895 Wacom tablet and FC24/Light24
6/19/93 09:34 12/ [e-mail] (Stephen Menzies)
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Has anyone got a Wacom tablet working successfully with
Light24 (paintbox on the Firecracker24)?
If so, I would appreciate knowing how (perhaps someone has
written a driver).

thanks,
        stephen
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
\\\Stephen Menzies, TFX Animation Inc., TAARNA Systems, Montreal, Qc.///
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[[]] [e-mail] [[]] [e-mail] [[]] [e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3896 Re: MPEG converter
6/19/93 13:02 36/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        >where did you get it??? I want a copy ;-) I know of an encoder for
        >Xwindows and UNIX, but it is a piece of kaka...

        This may be a port of that same program, I haven't tried it yet.  The
        program I am refering to is PVRGMPG.zip .  It just came across
        comp.graphics.animation  and alt.binaries.multimedia The complete
        source code is at havefun.stanford.edu   (so I have read)
        I will repeat for anyone who may have just tuned in, this is a PC
        program, not an Amiga program.
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        The person who did the conversion is
        [e-mail] (whew glad my address isn't that
        long!) He was attempting to get the program up on SIMTEL also.

        I would love to see this program ported to the amiga.  Go for it KH!
------------
I don't have a C compiler.. Have you been able to play your animations
using the XING MPEG player? Last time I tried to view animations
made with that MPEG encoder, MPEGXING just puked its guts up all over the
Command:
place. The reason, as I recall, why MPEGXING didn't like it was that
that MPEG encoder did not put the animations into a resolution that
MPEGXING would accept... That MPEG encoder would do resolutions like
320 by 342 and such... actually any resolution.

I will try to download the file and see what kind of stuff it handles
and such... Thanks for telling me about it. I will try to get my hands
on it and will put it on wuarchive and several others...chances are it is
already on the nets... if not, I do have access to USENET (thanks to
the IML I haven't read any USENET in months ;-) ).
Command:

Well later

Kiernan Holland
[e-mail]

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3897 Re: Imagine, Amiga ragging
6/19/93 16:35 528/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        >>market successfully, they now know that the Amiga is where it is at...
        >>They are not going to abandon the Amiga platform... I think that
        >>is what most Amiga users are afraid of, therefore they kiss *ss...

        +  Well I've had my Amiga since the 1000 days, moved to the 2000, now have
--------
What a coincidence... I did tooo... I had a 1000 and a 2000 and I have a
3000. I also had a C64 and a disk drive for it... I would say I have
been a Commodore user for a decade now.
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        + a 4000. I don't feel I've been kissing anything, but am really happy CBM
        +has maintained an upward path, and with the AGA chipset a grand one at that.
---------
It is lucky that they are still doing something because I would have
been gone 6 months ago with the 486-33 crowd... Don't ever forget
how long it took them to decide that the Amiga was better than thier
PC line... I will never forgive them for years 87-90. They are
still falling behind a little.. But I'm sure that the AMiga is the best
platform for what I am doing, but that has almost nothing to do with
CBM's progress...
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---------
        +All with a minimum of software incompatability. As far as CBM and Mac
        +releasing new models, most CBM has kept the product line as lean as possible
        +and still managed to offer a product that is widespread amoung users. Most
        +hings that run on the 1200(exclude games) will run on the 4000. You don't see
---------
Of course, it is the same chipset... and the operating system is the same..
Though OS 1.0 programs are incompatible with everything after about 80%.
But at least the GURU's are not as numerous as with the Amiga 1000.. bought
my 1000 in 1986 from CMO..  I bought my 2000 with the Amiga 1000 tradeup
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deal. And I bought my Amiga 3000 on a student discount (lot a good that did,
you can buy two Amiga 3000T's for what I paid).
----------
        +this on the other platforms. CBM deserves credit for a job well done on the
        +4000, and AmigaDos.I am pleased with the software I have  on the Amiga, and
----------
Maybe so... But I am waiting for a AGA chip upgrade..  At least in a
expansion card form.. Others say it is impossible but I say that is
pur 100% saturated bull sh*t.. CBM doesn't want to make one..
They are lazy and you know it.. Look at all the hardware that comes on
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the AMiga...  it is all kludges... What was the amber?? A deinterlacer???
what, they couldn't afford to make a non-interlaced graphics chip?
What is the new HD drive??? It is a Chinnon floppy disk drive with an
ability to go double speed. More sectors but the same number of tracks.
What, couldn't they just get a drive with twice as many tracks??
The disk storage idea was pretty good, but then you consider that
there are floppy drives that can store 2.88 megs now, even on the PC's.
I would like to have a 1.44 meg or 1.76 meg disk drive on my Amiga 3000...
It's impossible??? No, CBM just doesn't want to implement it... It
is just a cloud that they use to conceal the truth...
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------------

        +though I do see room for improvement I realize a small compaanies have limited
        +resources as opposed to the very large firms supporting other platforms.
-------------
What is the definition of limited resources. Really, I think CBM doesn't
have any troubles... If the head of the company can earn 3 million a year,
there is something definitely wrong.. Even GVP and PPS can make better hardware
than CBM.  CBM makes alright software, but the hardware serriously
lacks in some areas and their level of support lacks a ton...
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-------------
        >I don't... I like what I see and I will talk about it, but I don't feel
        >inclined to admire CBM or Impulse, or anybody... If it is a good
        >product, it is a good product... They could sell Imagine for
        >20 bucks and it wouldn't matter... disks are easier to mass produce
        >than any material good in the entire world and yet it costs an
        >arm and a leg for programs that come on them...

         +I have seen some really admirable stuff done with Imagine, and for it's
         +price I can't complain. I get many hours of enjoyment out of Imagine
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--------
Ya, that is alright... But you can't get Imagine on student discount.
You can get Studio 3D (Autodesk) on student discount for 500 dollars
I hear..  But whatever the price, Imagine should at least do what
it does very well... I mean, the programmer of Imagine probably
adds a lot of stuff on to the program but does not optimize the
thinsg already existing on the program. He could really work on the
rendering algorithms, he could support instantiated objects,
better object editing tools (like Caligari's ability to color faces
individually by just clicking on the face...), things that would
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be pretty simple to implement. I have a feeling that he
is writing this program at the computer rather than taking the normal
route of a careful programmer (flowchart or pseudocode, top/down
design, bottom up implementation, full documentation on the
technical and novice user levels, etc. ) I bet you that is the reason
why his port of Imagine croaks on the PC's in several ways..
---------
         +and long ago passed the point of not getting my monies worth. To relate
         +the value, or cost of a program to the medium it comes on is not the
         +sign of a clever person at best.
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---------
No, that is not what I meant... I meant that they are not paying
hundreds of dollars to develop the program, the advertising may
cost a lot, but the distribution is almost nothing and the manual
lacks serriously.. Impulse could do a whole lot better.
I don't know much about 3D graphics programming, but I bet that
if I knew how to program them, I could do it better than whoever is doing
it now.. It is not a matter of knowledge, it is a matter of will..
You can know everything there is to know about graphics but if you don't
have any reason to improve your programs, you will not.. You will just
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add more and more features because you would be bored dealing with
all the old problems.. I know how some programmers think.. If I was getting
paid to write programs (which I am not right now... I do mine for my own use),
I would at least involve some planning and good program design into
my work.. I know programmers that just "want to get it over with" and are
willing to put global variables all over the stinking place, use
magic numbers when they can and use code that is not smart (it doens't
sense its environment before it performs an action on it) in that
it depends upon a particular system design... You know why Video Games
on Amigados 1.3 don't work on the newer systems?? You know why
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some MSDOS games go 5 times faster on newer systems? It all has to do with
programs that "think" they are in an Amiga 1000 with 512K of ram and an
PC XT with CGA, respectively, when really they are on a
AMiga 4000 with 16 megs and  a 486-66DX2 with SVGA. The first
one, Amiga 1000 games, could have been cleared up, possibly, by
having the program use the system calls that CBM provided with
thier machine and by asking the system how much memory is available,
additionally providing an alternative in the cases of too little or
too much fast ram or chip ram.. Sure, it may be uneccesary now, but
what it uneccessary now will be easier to change tommorow.
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On the last case, the PC game, the developer could have at least
tested the system before running the game to find out how fast the
processor is, or could have asked the user upfront how fast the
machine is and what kind of processor is being used.
------------
        As programs get better, the old revisions lower in price much faster
        than hardware... Probably because some users like myself have
        figured it out that programs are overpriced... Less work, more
        money... that's the idea... sell it for what the people will bare...

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        + It seems that you need a course in business 101 at least. As a
        +program matures and you recoup your investment you find yourself
        +able to contain cost so to speak much easier. This is also aided by
        +the revenue generated by upgrade fees. Some programs that were grossly
        +overpriced, as you indicated in the following paragraph had to reduce
        +to be competive with the other offerings.
-------------
That too.. But unltimately, the reason Imagine costs 200 and not 100
is that nobody has started selling something as good as Imagine at
150 dollars. Nobody is going to do it anyway, because it would
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mean that they would start getting less.. If the users all of
a sudden decided to stop buying the programs and complaining about
the price, the company would lower thier prices or improve their
software in order to keep thier userbase. In Impulse's case it is
"add more features and keep the price".  It is somewhat like
how the GAS stations run in our town... One gas station sells gas at
1.39 a gallon (something like that), a Texaco station, and if any
other station tries to compete, the Texaco station lowers thier
prices to 50 cents a gallon, to run the other gas station out
of business. Now if the other gas station adds two more kinds of unleaded
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gasoline with a super-super-additive, they can still sell gasoline
at a price equal to the Texaco station without losing thier
customers, thier userbase.  In the Amiga's case, Impulse is the
Texaco station and Octree and othe such companies are the other
gas stations.. Octree will not lower Caligari's price below Imagine's
because Impulse has enough money that they could hold out at a lower
price with Imagine, puting Octree out of business. Octree will not
challenge the market unless they lose thier userbase, in which case
they will either lower the price of the software or make the software
better. Octree has lowered the price of thier software in the past from
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2000 to 200 dollars to get a larger userbase, and probably since
more 3D animators are in the general market now. Ultimately, Imagine
was the reason, I'm sure..

If Imagine is maintained by one guy, this means that Impulse can pay
this programmer less than what they would have to pay to have seven
programmers maintaining the program. No training or teaching would
need to be payed for in case that one of the seven programmers should
jump to another company, causing them to hire and train new programmer.
There must be a good reason why the single programmer is staying
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with the company (owns 20% share of the companies profits?), he
probably finds some interest in the company too. There is no need
to organize meetings to talk about the software development
since there is only one programmer and one organizer, manager, and such.
They provide free revisions so that they can use the users as guinea
pigs on thier program, so they don't have to waste money on a
set of trained software testers. This also means that the single
programmer gets a lot of work, may be overworked, and will pay less
attention to the finer details of the design.. So they get more money
and the users get crapier software. Nothing says that they couldn't just
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hire six more programmers, add a training program, get two programmers
which have aminor in english, to alternatively write the manuals.
One of the six could also have some experience in public speaking
and possibly another could have some experience in psychology ( to
create easier to use interfaces for children as well as adults),
another could have some experience in art, making a more
attractive user interface. One could have some experience in
computer security, to make harder to crack software (a euor-cracker who
knows how to crack Amiga programs would be best), the last could
have a minor in math,as he could verify algorithms and possibly optimize
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the rendering processes.

What would they be paying the programmers??? I don't know..
But they could cut down on advertisement.. As we all know, AMiga users
tend to spread the word a lot faster than any magazine could..
They shouldn't depend on this, but they could monitor the sales over a
period of time after cutting down the ads in Amiga magazines..
Besides, Amiga users now Imagine exists, what use is it to
tell the .1% of the users that it does???

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My way, they would have better software and a bigger userbase because of
it, rather than poorer software with userbase that is willing to put up
with the software.

The variable that needs to change is US! I really believe this is the
answer to the whole problem. Actually Impulse probably needs better management..
I could be wrong since I am basing this all on the rumor someone
passed around about impulse having only one programmer working on
Imagine.

Command:
Oh ya, to keep the integral part of the software designers, the original
programmer, from leaving Impulse would have to increase his salary
(because he probably deserves it) and put him at a higher rank with more
responsibility as the software design team manager. There is a lot of reasons
to do this. One is is that without him, the progress of the software
design and its technical parts would be hard to describe from the code
without the brain behind it all. He could also train newcomers and
have them design only the part that that newcomer should work on.
If one part should have a new idea that would make the software better
and easier to implement, a meeting between the software developers
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would be set to discuss the idea(s) of the other programmer as well as
thier own.

It would be best for everyone... The executives would not have to
cut programs short of being finished, the technical writers/programmers
could write memos to management explain in plain english what problems
have arrised, giving an estimate on when they think the bugs will be cleared.
The technical writers could alternatively write the manuals and write
speeches for demonstrations at the big software shows by the programmer
who has experience in public speaking.
Command:

There is many ways it would improve things, but I don't feel
like telling all the ways.
-----------
        Amiga users can't afford costly programs, that is why Caligari costs
        200 bucks, Imagine costs 200 bucks and Dpaint costs less than 100
        dollars.. On the Mac's there are more companies that got more dough,
        and they can afford to pay high prices.... Look on any low-end
        platform and you will see that this is true...

Command:
        +Speak for yourself ! I'm a adult that has the ability to manage to
------------
23 here..
------------
        +budget for my software. I see the prices rising as the quality, and power
        +of software improves. However I have the advantage of owning most of the
        +better stuff since it's early days and upgrade as often as I can. With
        +AGA I'll have to space the upgrades out but will eventually get them all.
        +I realize the need to support the Amiga Platform and am +willing to sacrifice
        +a little to do so, others seem only interested in a free ride. I buy from my
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        +local dealer whenever reasonable to support him. $10.00 more or less is a small
        +price to pay to help him survive. I am not stupid. I know I can save money
------------
Ya... if you have a good dealer... Otherwise, you end up like me.. You
probably don't know what it is like to go to an Amiga store where
Deluxe Music construction set still costs 80 bucks and has been sitting on
the shelf for 4 years.

The users should not have to support the local dealers volutarily...
The Amiga dealers I know provide an alternative service as a PC/MAC
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supporter... I don't mind, as long as they still sell Amiga's.
If Amiga's are really good, it should change those who use PC's and MAC's
that buy from the store to change thier opinions about Amiga's..

They'll survive with or without our help.. Sure I don't mind
chipping in 10 dollars more for a product at a local dealer,
just as long as the dealer doesn't treat me like crap.. My last dealer
didn't treate me bad, but she had really old software, knew less
about the technical aspects of her hardware/software (she's an
Santa Fe artist by trade) and she smoked in her store (which is bad
Command:
for floppy disks and hardware in general, it also makes the
store and the products smell like a smoking room).
------------
        +buying elsewhere, but The Amiga is in an awkward posistion. Because the user
        +base is amaller it makes the support extended by this user base much more
        +important.
------------
No really, what you need is a user group, not an Amiga dealer..
It is not the Amiga dealer's job to care about your computing..
Only if he can get something out of it, otherwise most don't
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care.. If you can get someone who cares... Then on any platform,
even a PC, he is a good person to support over mail order..
I have always believed (to some extent) in buying from a local
dealer first, but you can't become a slave, otherwise you
lose a lot of money.  I have found that researching companies
and software, and asking other users as well as asking dealers (although
you must consider that their primary motive is to sell)
is the best way to go. You must take your own chances...
------------

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                And they send free(thats right, I said FREE(as well they should))
        upgrades when   they make mistakes. I've seen 3D packages on the MAC(can't
        recall which one)
        ----------
        +Virtual Realities, and ASDG both offer excellent support of their programs
        +as an example.
------------
ASDG is alright, but I have found programs (WASP, HAMlab, JPEG V3.0) that
do better even in shareware/pd. They are doing a lot better, but they could
at least bring the prices of thier software down a bit... Like maybe 100
Command:
bucks for Morph Plus with Adpro. GVP could also follow thier lead.
--------------
        There are 50 million PC users and 10 million Mac users... the Companies
        can get away with it there.. Now when teh Amiga user base expands
        to 10 million, expect to find companies charging for upgrades...
        ----------
        +Disagree here. Bug fixes no, actual product enhancements I see the Amiga
        +developers having the right and ability to charge for upgrades. It allows
        +them to generate development funds, and the user to enjoy the fruits of
----------------
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Yes... however, the users provide free software testing and the developers
should respect this service becuase they could always have hired
a professional team or could have wasted more money on research.
----------------
        +these development efforts at an incremental cost. The need for upgrade
        +charges is even more critical in the Amiga Market.
----------------
Tell me, why not have one product, then make revisions and sell the
product with a new set of revisions?? Do you think that a product
with 1 revision costing 10 bucks apiece over the period of 10
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revisions would cost as much as an upgrade with all ten
previously unreleased revisions?? What if the upgrade costs 50 dollars
more than the first program??  What would you consider a good
time to sell the product?? Before the potential bugs are fixed  or
after??  If the developers think "before", I would expect free revision
upgrades... Otherwise I would make sure that each revision that
I payed for added to the quality of the program, not fix up
bugs that shouldn't have existed in the release of the program.
Of course, the developers retain the right to sell revisions
to the users, as sure as NewTek can justify 1000 dollars for a
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upgrade [as they did] to the 2.0 software of the toaster...
Just as we retain the right to complain and choose software...

Don't become a slave, get wise!!
---------------
        with half the features that cost twice as much as Imagine(keeping with the topic
        of the list).  So, don't get me wrong...ya gotta complain if it don't work. But
        ----------
        MS makes most of thier money off upgrades...

Command:
        It is all a matter of user base and ethics... It is one reason
        I don't own a PC... Then again I would rather have an Amiga developer
        tha makes an effort to make bug-free, defect free, understandable software
        (like most MAC software) rather than just make revisions when the users
        complain... That is about how it goes on the Amiga...
        Either they look for errors deliberately, or they wait for the errors
        to come knocking at their door... Impulse should clear up thier
        errors before they upgrade thier software... It will make it easier
        on both them and the users, however they seem to be doing it the
        more screwy disorganized way... Hunt and hack...
Command:

        +Well I do wish it could be this way also, but in reality bugs are always
        + a possability. There are so many varables in a software program, and
        +especially in a program like Imagine that it would be near impossible
-----------
And there is good and bad ways to write a program... Believe me,
there is a way to write near bugfree programs... It is through
careful planning.. Anything else that has nothing to do with the program,
is the operating system's fault.. In a PC this means making sure that
you push and pop all registers and variables that should not be changed
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during the course of a subroutine or interrupt call. I don't believe
in global variables, therfore I don't use them.  I think that the programmers
should focus more on making more bug-free programs than adding more
features to existing programs. Some programmers will only work on a program
until they can't find any bugs, others will work on programs until
they think the users will not notice any bugs, and the real good ones
will beg users to find bugs for them... Its all a matter of discipline
and will, and all the stuff that comes with being a good software
designer.. Of course, from the software designers perspective,
if you aren't getting paid enough, jump to another company or
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stay where you are and keep making code that lacks perfection..
-----------
        *to eliminate them all and still ship in a reasonable amount of time. I
        +have recieved free disks from Impulse(YES IMPULSE) in the past to fix
        +critical problems. Regard most Mac software, Yes it seems to have inherent
        + better stability, that is unless you count the problems with stuff and
        +system 7. This stability is also easier to obtain when you don't concern
        +yourself with backward compatability.
-----------
But the users have a choice.. they don't feel they have any direct
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dependance on the company providing the software. Some do however,
but they probably never researched thier choice or probably
didn't wait long enough to see if the company was a reputible
business. Small companies are known to sell software for more
and have been known to go down the tubes faster. ABout 10% of the
software bought (estimate) is poorly researched by the user
and often ends up obsolete...  If you have a large userbase,
if the company that sells the package goes bankrupt, chances are
another will buy their company up... or others will continue to
develop software to improve the packages provided by that company.
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MAC's are hard to program I hear.. You can program better programs
if you stick to the rules of the company that makes the operating
system. If you violate those rules, chances are you will end
up with a lot of troubles. It doesn't suprise me... All computer
companies make these mistakes... Tell me what happened between
OS 1.3 and OS.20 back in 1990!!! Seee... How about MSDOS 5.0
to MSDOS 6.0? Or how about that fancy trick to get UNIX SVR4 and
BSD to work together?? It is just a fact of computers, you will
have problems wherever you go... The thing I like about
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MAC's is that the user interface is the most important thing in the
equation.. In traditional programming, you optimize your program
to make it faster then you add the interface... With MAC software
it seems that the interface is optimized then the internals..
Sure the computers are slow, but they are simple.. One of the reasons
why most users like MAC's are that they are easy to network, I know some
PC users who know how to write complex programs in assembly
on the PC's but prefer a MAC for use between work and home..
-----------
        I believe in smart coding styles like programs that are flexible,
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        modular, top-down design bottom-up implemented, and can "sense"
        the environment before they continue execution... Imagine doesn't
        seem to do this... Otherwise it would be capable of running
        on a PC or whatever,

        + Well I think this is a little out of line. Developing for the PC
        +with it's many inherent problems has nothing to do with the above.
        +Regardless of how you develop your code, if your new to the PC
        +(piece C***) enviornment your going to have problems. It's not
---------
Command:
I agree.. but you should only be concerned with your program... If
it croaks because of the operating systems problems, make a small
fix but don't depend on it.. Wait for the operating system to
improve or build an environment that uses the operating system
but hides the implementation from you.. I mean, something like a
virtual system... I guess for dos this would be like going into
C++ and creating a class that uses windows as objects rather than functions.
Later when the operating system changes, all you need to do is change the
class and not the entire program... The program will treat the class
as it did before... there is a conventional name for it but I can't recall
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it from the top of my head.
---------
        +easy going from a OS like Amigados, and a AUTOCONFIG(tm) system
        +like the Amiga to the hodgepodge world of messy dos. This is an
        +even harder task if your trying to get the same functions you have
        +on the Amiga.
---------
Oh I know, but if you design your code the first time around so it
doesn't try to pull any fancy tricks like bypassing bios interrupt
calls and using the I/O ports and memory instead... I guess, if you
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know what a good structure looks like, you can design it.. You don't
have to be a wiz at this stuff.. I have maintained A averages in
my programming courses becuase of the way I approach programming..

I tend to overdue some of my programs.. For instance, one
semester in aseembly language class I was told to write a
program that converted decimal numbers to hexidecimal in assembly..
I did, but I devised a routine that would do multiple conversions
(anything in fact) in with 32-bit numbers... While the other
kids were checking for a number that was larger than 65,356,
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my program would simply take the number and divide it by the base
taking the remainder and testing to see if it was decimal, binary,
hexidecimal or something like ascii-decimal then push it on a
stack, pop it off and print it until a sentinel. This was all
written for an 8086, which is incapable of performing the operations
I created... so I invented routines to handle 32-bit dividision,
multiplication, addition and subtraction. I didn't need
all of them, but they came in handy later.. This may not seem
like such a big deal, but what did you do in your first
semester of assembly language??
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------------

         and you would not need to replace register values in
        the program's binaries to make it support resolutions like 1280x1024...
        The programmer could have at least had Imagine determine how much memory
        is available for graphics, what chipset is being used, what the current
        screen resolution is, how many colors are possible, etc. and change the
        global variables to reflect the environment... But no... The programmer
        has to hard-code the magic numbers in that choose only one of two resolutions
        (hires and hires-lace).. It is what we call "Poor Software Design".
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        I bet the programmer(s??) of Imagine doesn't even have a Masters,
        Probably not even a bachelors... It is so obvious..

        +Opps Again. I admit that support for the different resolutions would be nice.
        +I also realize that these 1280x1024 requirements wern't even a dream until
        +a short time ago. Imagine Supports all the standard(and DCTV) formats that
        +were available during it's design cycle. I have a 4000 but still only a 1084s
        +for a monitor. The large majority of Imagine users will not have a problem
        +with this restriction for quite a while.(I don't consider us netters the
        +average user) In time as things settle down and support for 3.0 grows these
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        +problems should go away.(At least I think so). To throw darts at this time
        +seems a little rash, to slam the programmers especially in regards to education
        +is outright rude(please forward me a beta copy of your 3D modeler). I'd much
        +rather Impulse spend time on the features list than waste it on screen
        +resolutions at this time.
----------
I would rather they work on potential bugs and interface considerations..
if you want more features, they can always provide a higher-priced package
for the time being.. The truth is is that you can't work productively if the
code is sensitive to small system changes or if the code never
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worked correctly in the first place.
----------
         This thread has become disjointed so I simply makked my thoughts with
        a "+" to seperate them. We should also remember that Impulse have offerd
        Imagine PC to us for $100.00 . At that price I can put in on my desk at work
        and then I can see if it runs or not:-)
                                                        bill
-----------
Well, aren't they nice??? (sarcasm) The only reason why they
did it is because they wouldn't have a userbase to justify it
Command:
if the Amiga users weren't using the PC version of Imagine.
I think they see this more as a business oportunity.. Think about it,
you sell the Imagine users Imagine for 100 bucks, they take it
to work, show it off to thier friends, the Imagine users
ofcourse are Amiga users and Amiga users have been known to hype
everything about 4 times as much as it really is. That kills
the amount of advertising that would be needed if they didn't
have that option. Could we be seeing a transition?? Possibly a
switch to the PC platform?? Or are we seeing a multi-platform
profit to be made?? Or is it free testing for the PC version...
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Maybe AMiga users provide the kind of feedback that they do not
get elsewhere.. It could be that they are doing it to make
it easier on the Imagine users... My point is is that in
all businessesm there is a motive behind everything...
Criticize before you claim..

        /------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Bill leimberger. NASHUA N.H.
        I am Not an Amiga dealer, or developer. I am simply An
        Amiga user that appreciats The Amiga and the things it allows me to do.
Command:
        These ramblings are my own and do not reflect on my employer, or anyone
        else for that matter*/

/***********************************************************************
** Kiernan Holland, [e-mail], [e-mail] **
** (University Of New Mexico - Los Alamos Branch Computer AIDE)       **
** "If it doesn't work, turn it off/on or ask me to watch."           **
***********************************************************************/
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3898 Re: Changes changes changes
6/19/93 18:33 21/ Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>
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> Actually, that is another good point - I used to use that.  If I wanted
> to reply to an individual, I used r (reply), if I wanted it to also go to
> the list, I used g (group reply).  With this new change, I no longer see
> a way to reply directly to the individual.  The actual address of the
> sender is NOT in the header any longer!

That's funny.  It's still there, and I'm using elm 2.4 pl20, I think.  The
"From imagine-relay" line is there, the "From: ..." line specifies the
originator, and there is always the "Return-Path: " line.  For me it's
working perfectly ...
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I sent this particular message using elm's "f"orwarding function and
entered "imagine" (my list alias) as the destination, fixed the "(fwd)"
portion appended to the subject title, and went about editing this message.
Strange.  Maybe I'm missing something?

Incidentally, my copy of elm picks up the proper address with "r"eply, too,
so there's no problem with that either.  Just thought you'd like to know.

 ._.  Udo Schuermann      We now return you to the remainder of discussions
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 ( )  [e-mail]  about things that have nothing to do with Imagine.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3899 Imagine.quest.(reply)
6/19/93 19:34 7/ Florence Ormezzano <[e-mail]>
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Thank you for your suggestion about my problem in trace mode (screen all
black)...
I have 2 meg of chip ram and 4 of fast on a 3000 machine, while rendering
the fast ram goes down to about 500.000 or around that...it might be that
I don't have enough...?
thanks again for your help !
Florence
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3900 Re: Two Requests...
6/19/93 18:57 33/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Fri, 18 Jun 1993, Mark Marino wrote:

>
> Hey Guys,
>
>   I have two requests to make:
>
>   1) Can any of you guys with Icoons please let the rest of us know
> where to find it on the Internet (if it exists on the net)?  I did an
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> archie search but it turned up nothing.
>
Last time I checked it was on wuarchive.wustl.edu but don't ask me exactly
where. That site is huge!

>
>   2) Can we hold back from erupting into any major flame wars?  I see
> trouble brewing here since the last few days and I'm hoping we can
> curtail it before we get into some major bandwidth squandering.  If you
> feel you must let loose some stinging comments about somebody's post,
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> send it to the sender, not the list.
>
> <off my soapbox>
> Mark

Hear, hear.

Nik.

[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3901 Re: Any experience with DPS PAR ?
6/19/93 19:05 27/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Fri, 18 Jun 1993, Mark Thompson wrote:

> > Now that some time is gone by and DPS is availible I want to ask
> > you people out there if there are any experiences with this board.
>
> Mine hasn't arrived yet, but I did go check one out at a local dealer.
> First off, I liked the interface; clean, professional, and pretty intuitive.
> The output imagery was good and writing/compressing images to the device
> was transparent and fast (a few seconds per frame). You wrote to it like
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> it was any drive in the system. As for compression, apparently it can be
> controlled both during recording and playback. To control compression ratios,
> it allows a quality factor from 0-23. Apparently when you are rendering,
> you set it to 23 and it will choose the best value it can on playback to
> maintain 30fps. You would only set it lower than 23 when doing real time video
> capture with the TBC4. For playback, Q16 had very noticeable artifacts around


Any idea whether this gadget :-) will be available in PAL ? I hope this
isn't another one of those NTSC only products.
Command:

Nik.

[e-mail]



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3902 Re: Floating Point Gurus
6/19/93 19:01 39/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Fri, 18 Jun 1993, Rob (R.D.) Hounsell wrote:

> Dudes && || Dudettes,
>
>   I often experience a problem on my Amiga sometimes while rendering under
> Imagine 2.0 that I figure is due to my home-made accellerator but will ask
> anyway:
>
>   Has anyone been experiencing guru mediations that indicate either a memory
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> error or co-processor illegal instruction? This happens often enough that I
> cannot set up a sequence of frames to render before I go to bed and have any
> confidence at all that it will be finished the next morning (i.e. it will have
> crashed after several frames). It seems to happen by far most often when
> running rendering in Imagine, although that could just be because it works the
> system the hardest.
>
>   As I said, I expect that there is a timing problem within my A1000 - LUCAS
> accellerator - FRANCES memory expansion setup (PD Hardware), but you never
> know. I've taken a logic analyzer as far as it will go; I've arranged access to
Command:
> a 68020 in-circuit emulator, but due to wedding plans have been too busy to try
> it.
>
> Thx
> Rob
> --

Well, I can't help you much except to say that I rarely have Imagine crash
on me and it even kept going when it took all but 10 K of all the system
RAM! (yep only had 10 K CHIP RAM) - it just didn't render everything but
Command:
only a part of the object.

It may really be your accelerator.

Nik.
[e-mail]



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3903 Re: Bla in Trace mode ?, help !
6/19/93 19:24 29/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Fri, 18 Jun 1993, Florence Ormezzano wrote:

>
>
> Hello !, I need help !
> I have an irregular sphere and an object inside. I checked the size of
> the sphere, it's around 900.0000 and I checked the size of the world, and
> set it for 1024.0000...the camera is inside the sphere with two lights,
> one spherical (& diminish intensity) one cylindrical (& cast shadows). Now
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> when I render in scanline mode its fine, but if I render in trace mode
> it's BLACK, with a vague grey shape on top of the frame.
> Now I don't know what else to do, what to check...anybody who knows?
> Thank you !
>
> [e-mail]

Well, you haven't really given us enough information here (could try to
describe the scene a bit more) , but check whether the sphere is located
at 0,0,0 - if not, the world size may still be too small.
Command:

Also, how much RAM do you have left when rendering starts (you may be
running out)

Nik.

[e-mail]


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3904 Re: Imagine.quest.(reply)
6/19/93 21:37 14/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
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> I have 2 meg of chip ram and 4 of fast on a 3000 machine, while rendering
> the fast ram goes down to about 500.000 or around that...it might be that
> I don't have enough...?

If you mean you have 500,000 bytes of fast mem left, and all of your
chip mem (less what imagine and the WB are using for screens -
naturally), then no - it sounds like you have plenty of memory.

What are the attributes for your spheres?  (Using any Filter, Reflect,
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etc... ?)

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3905 Re: Wacom tablet and FC24/Light24
6/19/93 18:34 34/ Joe Hanson <[e-mail]>
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As Stephen Menzies writes:
>
> Has anyone got a Wacom tablet working successfully with
> Light24 (paintbox on the Firecracker24)?
> If so, I would appreciate knowing how (perhaps someone has
> written a driver).
>
> thanks,
>       stephen
> --
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> \\\Stephen Menzies, TFX Animation Inc., TAARNA Systems, Montreal, Qc.///
> [[]] [e-mail] [[]] [e-mail] [[]] [e-mail]
>
>

I attempted to use a WIZ tablet with Light24/Firecracker.  It didn't
work.

I contacted TriMedia, the company that supplied the driver package,
Command:
who in turn contacted Impulse.
I was informed by TriMedia that the problem was with Light24 and how
it interpreted mouse movements.
I asked Mike Halvorson about it, but his response made me think it
wasn't a high priority issue.  I haven't heard of an update.

I thought about buying, but haven't tried, third party paint packages
compatible with the Firecracker.

So Stephen, your situation may be the same as mine.
Command:


joe hanson.

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3906 Re: Imagine, Amiga ragging
6/20/93 12:09 15/ John J Humpal <[e-mail]>
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[520+ lines of non-OBImagine noise deleted]
[...yes, I said FIVE-HUNDRED-TWENTY *PLUS* lines!!!]

This is just too much.  I scanned thesfirst 60 or so lines and saw
*nothing* and I mean *nothing* about Imagine.  Kiernan, you have
access to Usenet (I know you do, you said so).  For this kind of
crap, take it to c.s.a.advocacy.  Not (can I say it again?) *NOT*
the mailing list.  You have just filled the mailboxes of *hundreds*
of list subscribers with noise that 99% (I'm guessing, so sue me)
of them have no desire to see.  Please desist.
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--
-John

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3907 FC24 Blooz
6/20/93 13:33 16/ Naked Man <[e-mail]>
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  Is it just me or is there a lack of support for an otherwise
  extraordinary piece of hardware known as the Firecracker? Or is it just
  that Impulse is trying to be as much like Comodore as possible.  Do they
  desire to become as bankrupt as Big 'C' one day?  Imagine may go the way
  of another toy and the Firecracker may asphixiate from lack of support.
  Light24 is wonderful in giving realtime 24 bit painting, but has it been
  improved one little jot since it came out?  What do those guys DO up
  there all year except plan for snow-ins?  I wouldn't be so bitter if it
  weren't for the fact that NOTHING is being improved on.  Let's examine
  the word 'nothing' a moment
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  in small words so there is no misunderstanding:
    a thing that does not exist... "no"  "thing"  a complete and thorough
    lack leaving no exception to its utter non-existence.
  Any clues would be greatly appreciated.
  wes

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3908 ISL routines WANTED
6/21/93 02:00 10/ Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>
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There is a stagefile re/compiler around but what about some neat
programms for it.

Stretch a animation to n files
including an object sequence into a scene.
How about advanced animation technques (gravity and so on)

Lets talk about ISL as it is VERY imagine related :-)

HANNES
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3909 Ok here is an imagine related one :-)
6/21/93 01:56 11/ Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>
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Someone pointed out that on this maillist there was too few
imagine related subjects discussed lately.
So here we go:

How abmut exchanging essence settings via this mailllist.

Anyone who has produced some marvellous effects with this package
go andmpost it NOW

Hannes
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail]) m21400.3.1.3910 == No Subject ==
6/20/93 14:16 19/ Gary Whiteley - Amiga Shopper <[e-mail]>
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Regarding John Foust's recent yessage about bandwidth clutter:

I've been thinking entirely the same over the last few days - I've even
considered unsubscrybing, since so much off-the-subject stuff has been
coming up.

And I particularly agree about the quoting. It's driving me nyts. If
I want quoting ad nauseum I can always pick up a few Usenet groups!

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OK, I'm mostly a lurker around here, but that doesn't mean I'm not
interested in Imagine. It does, however, mean that I'm not interested
in stuff which is WAY off topic.

Flames welcome, if that's what you feel, otherwise I'm putting my
soapbox away again....

Gary Whiteley

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3911 Re: FC24 Blooz
6/21/93 0F:13 20/ [e-mail] (Stephen Menzies)
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Naked Man <[e-mail]> writes:
> [...]
>  Light24 is wonderful in giving realtime 24 bit painting, but has it been
>  improved one little jot since it came out?  What do those guys DO up
> [...]
>  Any clues would be greatly appreciated.
>  wes

We contacted Imapulse regarding a problem between Light24 and the
Wacom tablet (they don't work together). They said they ..."might
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look into it in 6 months to 1 year". One can safely assume that
this means in the next year or 2 and most likely, never.
Too bad, it is quite fast, in comparison with other packages.

-stephen
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
\\\Stephen Menzies, TFX Animation Inc., TAARNA Systems, Montreal, Qc.///
[[]] [e-mail] [[]] [e-mail] [[]] [e-mail]

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..n/Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3912 ISL idea
6/21/93 05:57 34/ [e-mail] (Daniel T. Edwards)
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Hannes has a good idea...
are there programs that make automatic modifications to your ISL script.
I just reoently discovered this neat utility, I can now use it from DOpus
without leaving the wonderful world of GUI.

For those whoomay have forgot... ISL (Imagine Staging Language?) is a
couple of programs that you can use to convert an Imagine staging file
into a human readable format... and back again.  It is similar in function
to TTDDD except TTDDD converts objects into human readable format.
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I'm not a programmer (er... I'm a lazy programmer), but I would like to see
a program that uses ISL to do motion blurring (oooooo!) it seems that a clever
programmer (not a lazy one 8) ) could write a program to load an ISL stage,
check for object motions, if an object moves the threshold distance during
one frame, then TTDDD would take the old object COPY it AND Change the Filter
values, then the program (the one I didn't write) would re-write the ISL stage
and include the filtered object (made with TTDDD) at an interpolated
position/alignment so that the final image would appear to have a
semi-transparent trail.  For those that have 1GB of ram to fool around with,
Command:
there could be an option that would allow multiple copies of the moving
object to be given varying filter values and placed adjacent to one-another
thus making the filtered trail more complete (continuous (sp)).

That's my idea... it's free!

 ____________________________________________________________
/                                                            \
| Amiga 2000                James R. Walker                  |
| 2MB Chip             [e-mail]           |
Command:
| 18MB Fast    ______________________________________________|
| 130 MB Hard /                                              |
| 68040 33Mhz |read this R.M. of WB> This Imagineer for rent!|
\____________________________________________________________/
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3913 Trace.prob.solved
6/21/93 07:19 7/ Florence Ormezzano <[e-mail]>
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Hye !
Thanks to everybody I solved my trace prob.
If anybody is interested the problees where 1/objects not located at 0,0,0
and 2/objects too big (not enough ram).
The picture took 10h to render and was not too interesting ! hahaha oh well...
thank you very much for all the help !
Florence
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.../Mailing Lists/I agine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3914 subscribe
6/21/93 13:46 1/ CAN OZTURK <[e-mail]>
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3915 Re: stff
6/21/93 07:13 46/ "Mr. Scott Krehbiel" <[e-mail]>
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>
>
> On Wed, 16 Jun 1993, Mr. Scott Krehbiel wrote:
>
> > I realize in re reading my earlier post that I wasn't at all clear
> > in what I was saying.  I hate it when I do that!
> >
> > What I was  owed by was the amount of control that Wavefront gives

(stuff deleted)
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> > Scott
>
> So what is your point here?

 stuff deleted)

> Nik.
>
> [e-mail]
Command:
>

My point was to highlight some neat stuff that's available in high-end
software, so we can start looking for more neat features in future
versions of Imagine (yeah, right) and so we'll start using tools
available in pd/shareware.  (like Icoons)

I agree that comparing Wave and Imagine is stupid, (and there really was
quite a thread-loss in there)  but I think it's very important to keep
aware of the high-end stuff and try to figure out convoluted bizarre
Command:
ways of using a whole bunch of non-related tools together to get
results that nobody has ever gotten b4.  That's my point.
Also, the longer and louder we shout at Impulse, the more they
have to spring on Aspirin.

Who knows - maybe with a little practice, Videoscape can do particle
animation.  (I'm kidding)

Here's a question for you: What changes would you like to see in the
                           Attributes editor?  What nifty new features?
Command:

Scott
and if my other post today made it through somehow, sorry for the
redundancy.


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3916 Re: renderman... pd??
6/21/93 09:21 20/ Eric A. Haines <[e-mail]>
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>> But there
>> is a program out (distributed with a book) called BOB that looks just
>> as good as Renderman..
>
>FYI,
>The book is by Stephen Coy who is the author of VIVID.  BOB is a version
>of VIVID.  Both shareware raytracers, and worth looking at.

Actually, Christopher Watkins is the first author.  The book is pretty good, and
BOB is quite fast.
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%A Christopher D. Watkins
%A Stephen B. Coy
%B Photorealism and Raytracing in C
%I M&T Books
%C San Mateo, CA
%D 1992
%Z comes with a disk of code for "Bob" raytracer

Eric Haines
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3917 Re: Trace.prob.solved
6/21/93 08:31 19/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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cn Mon, 21 Jun 1993, Florence Ormezzano wrote:

> Hye !
> Thanks to everybody I solved my trace prob.
> If anybody is interected the problems where 1/objects not located at 0,0,0
> and 2/objects too big (not enough ram).
> The picture took 10h to render and was not too interesting ! hahaha oh well...
> thank you very much for all the help !
> Florence
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Glad we could helpd How did you get around the memory problem ? Just made
the object less detailed?

Nik.
[e-mail]



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3918 Re: Ok here is ad imagine related one :-)
6/21/93 08:14 20/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Mon, 21 Jun 1993, Hannes Heckner wrote:

> Someonl pointed out that on this maillist there was too few
> imagine related subjects discussed lately.
> So here we go:
>
> Hol about exchanging essence settings via this mailllist.
>
> Anyone who has produced some marvellous effects with this package
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> go and post it NOW

Yea please! Even if they are just reprints from the first Essence
newsletter. No-one outside the US ver recieved it.

Nik.
[e-mail]



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3919 CD-ROM
6/21/93 09:47 13/ [e-mail]
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With all this talk about CD-ROM objects, Irwas wondering
if there is a SCSI CD-ROM drive that can be hooked up externally
to an A500?  My External drive takes up my expansion port so Commodors
(Ack no backspace) drive will not work... Any ideas?
I have an old Trumpcard controller (Way slow - sigh)

Also, is it possible to get a sample of some Essance Textures?
I havnt even >Seen< Any much less had a chance to play with any. :(

Thanks,
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     Don

[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3920 Re: stuff
6/21/93 08:21 51/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Mon, 21 Jun 1993, Mr. Scott Krehbiel wrote:

>
> My point was to highlight some neat stuff that's available in high-end
> software, so we can start looking for more neat features in future
> versions of Imagine (yeah, right) and so we'll start using tools
> available in pd/shareware.  (like Icoons)

Hmm, Ok, but I won't hold my breath. :-)
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>
> I agree that comparing Wave and Imagine is stupid, (and there really was
> quite a thread-loss in there)  but I think it's very important to keep
> aware of the high-end stuff and try to figure out convoluted bizarre
> ways of using a whole bunch of non-related tools together to get
> results that nobody has ever gotten b4.  That's my point.
> Also, the longer and louder we shout at Impulse, the more they
> have to spring on Aspirin.
Command:

I'd love to be able to combine SGI produced stuff with my work, but alas I
don't have access to one. Then again I'd be happy if Image Master gave me
real-time feedback so I could actually use it properly to composite my
images. Oh, and a new manual.

>
> Here's a question for you: What changes would you like to see in the
>   c                        Attributes editor?  What nifty new features?
>
Command:

Well, actually I've always been bitchingcabout the Attributes editor, actually
 not the attributes editor itself but the Textures editor - I want Sliders
there. The colour indicator was a good start but that should have been
there in the first place. I want some feedback on what the actual texture
would look like applied to some object (anything will do I just want
feedback) - especially Essence textures.

Also, the brushmapping needs to be totally revamped. Altitude mapping
especially. I want to be able to apply alt. maps to any objects with ease
Command:
and not just flat planes, balls or cylinders. Controlling the depth of the
bumps with the y value while also controlling the extent of the map is
plain STUPID!

Ok, enough bitching... :-)

Nik.
[e-mail]


Commald:

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21400.3.1.3921 Re: T3DLIB [TDDDConv] for DOS?
6/21/l3 08:54 13/ [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
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        After all of the Essence PC and Essence II PC work is completed,
I will take a look at T3DLIB (aka TTDDDLIp, aka TDDDConv) and see how
t is to port to an MSDOS machine.  Apparently, nobody has
done the port yet, and I *know* that at least two people have officially
tried.  So I'm not promising anything, and I am especially not promising
any "delivery" date.  But I will look at it after the commercial
products get released.
        [ Sorry to the IML for having to read this answer about every
two weeks, but I am getting barraged by this question and hope these
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posts will help people be patient. ]

                                                        -- Glenn Lewis
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagin  (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3922 "The" Eric Haines? (was Re: renderman... pd??)
6/21/93 11:07 34/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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>
> %A Christopher D. Watkins
> %A Stephen B. Coy
> %B Photorealism and Raytracing in C
> %I M&T Booke
> %C San Mateo, CA
> %D 1992
> %Z comes with a disk of code for "Bob" raytracer
>
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> Eric Haines
>
What?  No plug forpyour wonderful book?  Well, the book to which you made a
contribution?

For those of you who are unaware Eric(I hope you arepthe same Eric Haines) wrote
part of a book(that comes from the notes from a SIGGRAPH class, if I'm not
mistaken) called "An pntroduction to Ray Tracing."  Its an excellent book with
lots of examples and detailed explinations without getting into *too* much
math(hard to do with raytracing). I recommend it for anyone who is interested
Command:
in this stuff.  There are some really nice pictures of some of Erics work
as well.

I didn't know you visited this list, Eric.  Have you done any work with
Imagine(or any other renders) lately.  Sorry if this is common knowledge, I
don't visit the uploaded-pictures sections much.


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]
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*** This .sig intentionally left blank ***

ps  "Look Ma, no bouncu messages!!!!"  Thanks Dave!!
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3923 Essence Idea...
6/21/93 13:10 37/ "Cyrus J Kalbrener-1" <[e-mail]>
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      This was inspired by the fire tutorial in the essence newsletter.
Hope you like it!

This will create a two-dimentional ring of fire, but with the right moves,
it will look liuite convincing.

Add a plain disk and make it BRIGHT.

Set it's COLOR to a dark, fire lik  red, and it's FILTER all the way up to 255
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texture instead, do so now.

Now add the Cylindturb texture and rotate it'e X axis 90 degrees so that
the Z a xis points directly out from the surface of the disk.  Make the
TRANSITION RADIUS about 70%-80% of the disk radius.  Set10% of the object radius.  Set the COLORs
all to -1 and all of the filters to 0.  Leave everything else at the
defaults.

in rotate the X axis so the the
Z axis points directly out from the surface of the disk.  Use thegsame
settings as before, exc(sic) ring of fire with a clear center.

Keep in mind that STARS will not be visible through thg inside of the ring
and nothr .../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3924 Essence
6/2g/93 16:20 11/ [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)
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Steve and Glenn releasing LIGHTWAVE Essence ? (please ?)
Also, since I don't have essence yet, can someone or anymuch rendering slowdown are you experiencing, vis a vis
image mapping etc.. ? For example, in Lightwave 2.0, procedural texture the 030 (this has been corrected i hear in 3.0)
Are those of you running 040's and Imagine running into similar slowdowns?
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3925 trace.last
6/21/93 21:02 5/ Florence Ormezzano <[e-mail]>
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Just making the object smaller (scaled it in xyz) alsowed me too use the
trace mode rendered ( instead of half the
object ). But it was so slow ! it's not possible to make an animation that
way...I will buy moage edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
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21400.3.1.m926 CD-ROM
6/21/93 20:02 61/ Jonathan Hirschman <[e-mail]>
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>Date:  21-Jun-93 12:02 EDT
>From:  INTERNET:[e-mail]
>Subj:  CD-ROM
>
>Sender: [e-mail]
>Received: from email.SP.Paramax.COM by iha.compuserve.com
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>Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 11:47:51 -0500 (EST)
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>
>With all this talk about CDMy External drive takes up my expansion port so Commodors
>(Ack no backspace) drive will not wo
k... Any ideas?
>I have an o - sigh)
Command:
>
>Also, is it possible to get a sample of some Essance Textures?
>I havnt even >Seen< Any much less had a chance to play with any. :(
>Thanks,
>     Don
>
>[e-mail]


Don,
Ctmmand:

Almost any SCSI CD-ROM can be hooked up externally; I am using an
externally cased Toshiba 3301B, and it works quitt well along with the
Xetec file system.

Take a look in any Mac magazine, and get something with specs that are
agreeable to you and your budget.  Any good Amiga mail order house will
have the Xetec file system.  All you need is the proper cabling after
that!  Xetec's installation procedure is very easy.

Command:
Make sure that the Trumpcard is SCSI-Direct compatible (I believe it is),a
nd make sure that the CD-ROM mechanism is one that is well supported, like
Toshiba or NEC.  You'll need the right SCSI cable, and a terminator; you
will probably have to take terminators either off the drive in the
Trumpcard housing, or off the Trumpcard electronics.


           //Jonathan,
       \\//via AutoPilot

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3927 Animation formats and programs
6/21/93 22:10 21/ Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>
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I just finished rendering 50 frames in imagine. I want to convert
them from iff24 to a suitable ham8 animation format. some questions:

1. Speed wise is anim 7 or anim 8 faster. or perhaps another format??

2. Can anyone recommend a good piece of shareware to convert a series
of iff24 images to the above superior anim format??

3. Is there a version of Viewtek that can do this or do I need to create anim5
before going to anim 7.
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4. I remember a fellow (Udo Shurman?? I hope I did name
to badly, Udo) recommending a program, actually a set of programs, to do
exactly what I want. The name fails me. It was something like a??-a??

A tip of my hat to anyone who can help. thanks.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ a jerk? i know that he doesn't smoke
steve lombardi      | drugs. and he doesn't do cocaine. and he doesn't shoot
[e-mail] | smack. and he doesn't even drink beer. Why would he be
Command:
                    | such a fu*ker to me? --WE: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3928 Metaballs
6/21/93 23:24 10/ [e-mail] (Heberle H.)
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>As mentioned in my previous post, metaballs are what you want to achieve what
>you are talking about. TDI recently added metaball modeling and rendering toe
>does. But no, no PC based software has this capability. Bones in Imagine
>are likely a copy of what they are in LW, a means to put a skeletal structure
>inside an object and deform the object based on the movements of the skeleton.
-----------------, Softimage does allow you to model with metaballs.
Horst
[e-mail]
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21400.3.1.3929 Re: Animation formats a of 30 (33%)
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> 1. Speed wise is anim 7
> 2. Can anyone recommend a good piece of shareware to convert a series
> of iff24 images to the above superior anim format??il help top logout set go done forward back add_article
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I recommend "MainActor".  Is up into frames, append
anims, view anims or portions of anims, etc etc etc...  MainActor is
shareware and can be found on Am
Command:
> 3. Is there a version of Viewtek that can do this or do I need to create anim5
> before going to anim 7.

Viewtek doesn't create anims, only plays them back (and shoddily at
that).  MainActor plays Anim7's much better, if you can load the whole
thing in memory - if you can't, it'll play it back from hard disk (much
slower and choppy, of course).

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3930 imagine-question
6/22/93 04:49 81/ Peter Bugla <[e-mail]>
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Hi imagine-users!

First my apologies, if my question is too simple, but I started
working with Imagine 2.0 (PC-Version) about 2 weeks ago.

I made the p51 (which comes with the program) follow a "holding"-
path (something like a horizontal loop), with nice banking in
turns :) without any greater problems as follows:
Copy your flight-path, edit new path, click on start-point, split
segment for some time and erase all new points except the last new made,
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and  erase(!) the point you started with, then let a simple axis
(TRACK) follow this second (track-)path , and track the plane to TRACK.
The plane now follows the TRACK, which is a little ahead.
Now you can do banking with 'rotate around y-axis' in the
info-requester in the action-editor making nice little exact
30degree turns ;-) while the plane is still following its path.
(Any suggestions for an easier way to do this?)

Now my BIG problem:

Command:
I added a looping to the flight-path (looking like a circle in the
z-x-window (front). The points that define the looping (5) are aranged
as follows:
               <-
              __*__
             /  3  \
            /       \
            |       |  ^
           4*       *2 |
           |       |
Command: ot so good with this kind of graphix.)
with each point oriented:
z-axis pointing to the centerof the circle,
y-axis pointing in the direction of the plane (along the looping)
x-axis (logically) to the viewer (corresponding to the above pic).
Command:g)
until it reaches point 2, where it suddenly (from one pic to the next)
makes a 180 degree rill facing cockpit out. It "stayck
to cockpit-in orientation, leaving the loop correctly.

This means: The lower half of theiloop is "flown" correctly,
butis turn ?????
I'm absolutely sure I didn't asked for it!

The plane's (and TRACK's) axis are iriented (with plane horizontal!):
z-axis pointing up (in the sky)
y-axis pointing in the way it is expected to fly: from the middle
       through the propeeatly appreciated!

Thanx in advance
        Peter

PS: My Imagine crashes very often, totmlly unintended without any keyit tries to start (on
a new booted system !!! (imagine this !! ;-) ) , telling :
Abnormal program termination!
Command:
Rem********************************
*Peter Bugla                              "Gravity brings me drwn..." *
*E-mail: bugla@inform***********************************************************
Command:

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r../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail  22/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
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>object ). But it was so slow ! it's not possible to m edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
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        Hmmm.. Buying more RAM is a good idea, but don't expect it to
make things faster! For that you need to either not trace (do sca=================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
Co
+======================================================================+
Command:

Read artGcle (text)
.../Mailing Lists/' to stop.
-----
> If you don't know what IDE is or what it stands for, don't ask here.
> ThGs is not the place to debug youdministrator.  Read
> the FAQ and learn how to subscribe and unsubscribe.  I don't care if
> you've been on television.

Whether you like it or not, the list eventually becomes a group of friends
who will end up discussing things other than Imagine.  g
people to get back on track might help, but a note saying 'I don't like this..
quit it...  quit it...'  doesn't.
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> I don't think a signature is necessary

I do.

> and should never be more than one or two lines.u
I believe four is the accepted norm.

> I don't want to see your prowess with ASCII graphics.
Command:

You are tellingua bunch of artist to quit being creative??

> If I'm curious about your favorite soda or car, I'll ask,
> OK?  Otherwise, I don't want to know, and I don't want to read about
> it every three days, or even three times a day, kholland.

unsubscibe | [e-mail]

> And for heaven's sake, you don't need to quote the other person's signature,
Command:
> too.

This is true.

> This is not the POV or Wavefront or metaballs or Radiance or Rayshade
> mailing list.

So. dThey should certainly be discussed with regards to how they compare and
relate to imagine.

Command:
> Enough!  Enough!
dFine.  Equally so, enough of the post about how Pixel 3D sucks rocks, and we
should all go out and buy Interchange as well as weekly notices about the up
coming object CD.  Neither topic seems to be directly related to Imagine.

However, if it was up to me... feel free to talk about that, other software,
they latest greatest utility you got, new display boards and playback boards,
as well as the recent work you have done for considerably less than what it
was worth!  The kind of things that friends with something in common talk about.
Command:

ps.  I really was on national TV, I've included some ASCII graphics, and if
wou can't tell what make of car I like by my >2 line sig, I can post a message
talking about it in detail

pps. a partial smiwey applies.

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-
Command:

--
David R. Wwtters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993        mmand:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3933 Re: Re: Thrve.COM
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To: >internet: [e-mail]

watters <[e-mail]> writes:
> Whether you like it or not, the list eventually becomes a group of friends

I am not your friend.  These people on the list are not your friends.
The computer is your friend.

> I believe four is the accepted norm.

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So you use eight or nine?  Do you say "Hi, I'm Ddvid Watters and I
like Porsche and playback boards,

Not really.  You must be confusing the "Imagine mailing list" with
thed"general Amiga" areas of Intern've taken an entry-level assembler class to spend
500+ lines three times a day talking about proper software
development, and ad about
metaballs, too, and they should add that to Imagine!"

> notices about the up comingoobject CD.  Neither topic seems to be

Command:
The 3D-ROM disc has more than 500 Imagine objects...  that's more
relevantothan IDE or SCSI.  Why not postuch more friendly.

As for Syndesis's online presence - where's Impulse?  Where's Axiom?
Apexois here, of course.  Where's any other Amiga or Imagine-related
company on this mailing list?  Oh, they're not our friends.


Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3934 Re: An
mation formats and programs
6/22/93 07:41 30/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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You
re reading a text article.  Use<RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the gine. I want to convert
> them from iff24 to a suitable ham8 animation format. some questions:
>
> 1. Speed wise is anim 7 oan AGA machine the two should be
similar in speed. If not then Anim7. Anim8 has been optimised for AGA
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Cfmmand:
machines only.

>
mend a good piece of shareware to convert a series
> of iff24 images to the above superior animfformat??

Hmm, I know that Rend 24 will convert to Anim5 and then you can use a
program that comes with Viewtek to convert fo Anim7.


Command:
>
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400f3.1.3935 Re: Animation formats and programs
6/22/93 09:40 26/ [e-mail] (Virtually Here)
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move to the next
Steve J. Lombardi just said:
> 1. Speed wise is anim 7 or anim 8 faster. or perhaps another format??
>
Anim 7 seems to be ae CPU has a 32
bit path to chipram (i.e., 3000, 4000, 1200).

> 2. Can anyone recommend a goormat??
>
Anim 7 seems to be ae CPU has a 32
bit path to chipram (i.e., 3000, 4000, 1200).

> 2. Can anyone recommend a gooriece of shareware to convert a series
> of iff24 images to the above superior anim format??

I'm not sure if it will work drrectly with IFF24 images or not (I
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don't beleive it will), but MainActor (available on the AmiNet
mirror near you) will do mrst of what you want.  It can load and
save in a variety of formats, including IFF Frames, AnimBrush, Anim
7 (with either 16 or 32 bit compression) Anim 5, terface, and fully takes advantage of the 3.0 operating system if
it finds it.  Very cool stuff.

Command:
It's shareware, ///////////////
  //  Scott Ellis //  IRC: ScottE // WARNING: This signature warps   //
 //    s
[e-mail]   //  t///////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Ma
ling Lists/Imagine (mail to: .1.3936 Re: Thread Rot
6/22/93 10:25 83/ watters <[e-mail]>
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Last one from me... I promise

> watt
rs <[e-mail]> writehether you like it or not, the list eventually becomes a group of friends
>
> I am not your fri
nd.  These people on the list are not your friends.
> The computer is your friend.

Okay, glad to know you aren't my friend.
 Some people on this list our forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
friends... so all my posts
hould be read by them only I guess.

> > I believe four is the accepted norm.
>
> So you use eight or nine?  Do you say "
i, I'm David Watters and I
> like Porsches" every time you sit down with your group of friends?

I don't tell them where I w
rk every time either... this o me... feel free to talk about that, other
Command:
> > software, they latest greatest utility
you got, new display boards
 Not really.  You must be confusing the "Imagine mailing list" with
> the "general Amiga" areas o
 Internet mail.

Well then g list is?  I would rather this
be a newsgroup, but as this idea was rejected before due to a lot
of people
not having UseNet  list.
Wether it come through Email, or in a newsgroup... it is the same.
Command:

> > Fine
  Equally so, enough of the post about how Pixel 3D sucks rocks,
>
> I see - I can't post about my area of expertise, but it
s OK for
> "computer aides" who've taken an entry-level assembler class to spend
> 500+ lines three times a day talking about proper software
> development

This is not happening.  What is happening is people are discussing other
products (DPS PAR w/ IDE, CDROMs, Video Boards) which they are using or
Command:
buying on the same machine they run Imagine on.

> and for everyone to pipe up "Golly, I've read about
> metaballs, too, and they should add that to Imagine!"

YES!  If a person on this mailing list once to voice his has more than 500 Imagine objects...  that's more
> relevant than IDE or SCSI.
Command:

ThemSCSI/IDE discussion, as I sawding and playback
of 24bit animations off of hard disk.

> As for Syndesis's online presence - mhere's Impulse?  Where's Axiompany on this mailing list?  Oh, they're not our friends.

I value the online presence of ANY anm ALL companies.  They do, however, have
to be very carefull not to raise a ruckus as you have with me because I will
Command:
no avoiding buying InterchaI can help it, and I am starting to wish
I hand't bought Interchange... especially since I never use it and always use
Pixel 3es that covered animation playback of
IDE or SCSI, or the fact that I was on TV.... I really was you know.

btw... How does tlook out John... here comes the sig... and I think it mentions Porsches again>

             _  y  ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. yevelopment & Engineering
Command:
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed withythese magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993
Command:

R
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3937 looking for Adpro help
6/22/93 11:15 18/le R Rogers)
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        If anyone is familiar with working with colors in ADPro, please
        contact me personally.  I would like to ask you some questions
        about wos.

        Put that way... I should stay out of trouble.

        If I don't ANY response, Imll probably post something toscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
        Dale


       _____________________________^___m_________________________
       dale r. rogers
       afme support                               MailStop: LR24A4
       [e-mail]                       .
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3938 Re: Re: Thread Rot
6/22/93 11:06 28/ First Consulting Group <[e-mail]>
Linms 1 to 10 of 28 (35%)
-----ng a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
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You have no right to say something like,

yThese people on the list are not your friends"

without prefacing it with IMO or IMHO.  As far as I am concerned, people
who contribute to the list, especially those who volunteer their time in
solving others' problems, are behaving in a friendly way and deserve to be
called friends.  I regard anyone on the IML as a potential friend I just
haven't met yet.

-----
page ediand deserve to be
called friends.  I regard anyone on the IML as a potential friend I just
haven't met yet.

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IMHO, discussionaof hardware and software other than Imagine is still of
use, in that it can contribute new tools to the Imagineer's bag of tricks.
 If you want to publicize Syndesis' CD-ROM (and please do, I for one am
very interested), you should also tolerate others' questions about
interfacing CD-ROM drives, and, by extension, any other hardware or
software useful or necessary to using Imagine.

Life's too short to waste time on intolerance.  Everybody lighten up!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
Command:
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Command:

Reae article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3939 CONTACT
6/22/93 11:14 74e [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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Hey hey hey Imagineers!   :-)


I would like at this time to clarify what I see my
role asaIML administrator as.

Ideally, I see myself as the person nobody knows exists
-----
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Command:
except when they are subscribing or unsubscrabing to the
list...or have delivery problems.

Realistically, I think I have to take a role that's only
slightly more actiae. If we begin to deviate from the
acceptable bounds of the IML charter (we have), if we
step over the bounds of common courtesy (we have),
or if we tend to delve into areas that are not
productive to the group as far as scope, length or
atmospheree(we have)...then I should do something.
Command:

Allow me to quote from the IML Guide-

>The single and cardinal rule ofethe IML is to treat your fellow
>readers and posters with the same respect you would appreciate
>accorded yourself. In other words, it's OK to reasonably
>and intelligently describe why one package or hardware platform is
>preferable for your use in a specific instance. It is NOT OK to blast
>or flame the large time and financial investments made by others in
>competing hardware and software products.
Command:

While it is indeed acceptable to quote portions
of a prior message for clarity's sake... one would have to
acknowledge that for the most part, we don't need a tremendous
amount of quoting here. Remembering that some members pay per
mail volume (line/bytes/message), efficiently communicating your
message in a minimal volume should be a goal of us all.

I think alot of our trouble has arisen from the tendency we
all have to state our feelings as indisputable fact.
Command:
Even if we don't *feel* that way, our written words are strong,
decisive and unwavering. They are virtually  lines in the sand"
that are drawn as we dare anyone to step over them.

Let's just call a timeout if we can, on some of the  ore
controversial interactions we've been having. Nobody wins those.
Everyone reading has an interest in Imagine and/or 3D rendering
in general. We have quite a few knowledgeable professionals
here as well as highly talented hobbyists. Let's draw on
this strength and get back on track.
Command:


Again, other packages are open for discussion here, but let's
try and a  least keep things within the global sphere of
Imagine, at a reasonable length, with the courtesy assumed
in a civil conversation.


Sorry to get in your faces with this... and it's not aimed at
anyone in particular...it's merely a preventative meastre.
Command:



Dave Wickard  [phone]   "Son, we didn't talk to our elders like
[e-mail]        ttat in my days."
[e-mail]      "Well these are *my* days sir, and we do."
[e-mail]        -The Simpsons
(for subscribes/unsubscribes/changes)


Command:




Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mamling Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3940 Re: Animation formats and programs
6/22/93 11:43 31/ "Cyrus J Kalbrener-1" <[e-mail]>
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On Tue, 22 Jun 1993, Steve J. Lombardi wrote:

> I just finished rendering 50 frnmes in imagine. I want to convert
> them from iff24 to a suitable ham8 animation format. some questions:
>
> 1. Speed wise ns anim 7 or anim 8 faster. or perhaps another format??

Anim 7 is suposedly faster than Anim8
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> 2. Can anyone recommend angood piece of shareware to convert a series
> of iff24 images to the above superior anim format??

Main Actor, while rathe nuggy, can convert individual frames to anim 5,
anim7, anim7_16, or anim7_32(for 16 or 32 bit machines).

> 3. Is there a vension of Viewtek that can doelps!



                Cyrus J. Kalbrener
Command:

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Read article (text)
...nMailing Lists/Imagine (mail)
21400.3.1.3941 Re: Animation formats and programs
6/22/93 11:47 15/ [e-mail] (Ben Scott)
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I keep seeing people praising MainActor but I triot get it to do anything but crash.  My system is otherwise very very stable
(even Imagine itself doesn't crash much...) and th             <<<<Infinite K>>>>

--
.---------------------------------------------------------------------------.
|Ben Scott, professional goof-off and consultant at The Raster Image, Denver|
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done >----------------------------------------..---------------------------------<
| "It's Woodstock!  Three days of peace, || The Raster Image IS responsible |
|love, and stock footage!" - Joel, MST3k || for everything I say! **Amiga** |
`------------------------'`---------------------------------'
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: imagine@emailing a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Well I know that someone will flame me again, when I write something
that is not directly related to imagine but just hold on and you will
probably agree that my "thoughts" are quite imagine related :-)

Listing last weeks to the list revealed to me that most of the
more professional imagine users are hungry for nice new features
in new versions of imagine. In there postings they talk sometimes about
complex graphic tools/features (such as Metaballs ...). I think
that there are some very professional experts on this list which
reached the limits of imagine.
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Commanup for developing a own rendering software. As far as I know
there are about 300-400 members on this list. Take five to ten
peer is more then sufficient for
1) found a new maillist
2) develop a own software

Command:
I ksow that there are other maillists around (dealing with exactly
this kind of thing) but I think that especially here on this maillist
are quite smart people. Take
-> Steve Worley and Glenn Lewis (Essence is superb, nobody will doubt
that)
-> Mark Thoipson (well he is actually not a imagine guy :-) but
also a very trained person in cg). For those you do not know, take a
look at some of his pictures, thus!!

This is by far NO COMPLETE LIST AT ALL but you will agree that
Command:
there is a potent al lying here on this list For those who want to flame me to death:
It was just a thought of mine, an idea what we could do ...
In the end the only thing GRAPHICS

Now folks, let the flames come .... :-)
But I also want to here your opinions about m. "thought"

Command:
Hannes

PS: Where are nice settings for essence textures. Keep them coming !!!!

Command:

Read.article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3943 Re: Thread Rot (boy does it)
6/22/93 13:47 52/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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[bunch of stuff I could care less about deleted]
> > > Fine.  Equally so, entugh of the post about how Pn entry-level assembler class to spend
> > 500+ lines three times a day talking about proper software
> > development
>
> This is not happening.  What is happening is people are discussing other
-----
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Command:
> products (DPS PAR w/ IDE, CDROMs, Video Boards) which they are using or
> buying on the same machine they run Imagine on.
>
Sorry Dave, I have to disagree with you here... It is indeed happening.  In
fact, I don't see how you missed it, considering that is how this thread got
started.  Just the other rrived to find ~32k of crap(IMNSHO) in one mail
message.  Did you read it?  Sure, John exaggerated a little, but not much.

>500 Imagine objects...  that's more
> > relevant than IDE or SCSI.
Command:
>
> The SCSI/IDE dascussion, as I saw it, had
> > As for Syndesis's online presence - where's Impulse?  Where's Axiom?
> > Apex is here, of course.  Where's any other Amiga or Imagine-related
Command:
> > company on this mailing list?  Oh, they're not our friends.
>
> I value the online presence of ANY and ALL companies.  They do, however, have
> to be very carefull not to raise a ruckus as you have with me because I will
> no avoiding buying Interchange PRO if I can help it, and I am starting to wish
> I hand'tabought Interchange... especd always use

Dave, come on.  Isn't there a rule about whining on the Net.  No?  maybe not.
but dan't go stomping out of a room like a pouting 5 year old because someone
defends what they said.  We use Imagine, and Impulse won't even talk to us, much
 NewImagineWorldOrder for the
> list?
>
I was wondering about that too. Well, he was expressing ois opinion which is
what you are for, but you are flaming him because he said you shouldn't
express opinions on the net.  Vicious cycle.  (Ok, so I was ere right?  Ooops, sorry, wrong mail list ) ;)

Command:
Tom "Does a new line take up more spacecthan anyother character" SeThe following sig contains only one new line at the end so can be considered only a one line sig.  I hope it doesn't offend anyoell, I couldn't resist. Here comes the new line. ;)
Command:

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.../Mailing  ists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3944 Re:4 Thread Rot
6/22/93 13:51 38/ John Foust / Syndesis Corporation <[e-mail]
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To: >internet: [e-mail]

First Cons lting Group <dakelly@class.> You have no right to say something like,
> "These people on the list are not your friends"
> wit out prefacing it with IMO or IMHO.

Apparently no one caught the "Paranoia" game reference.

-----
page edit transfer ma l help top logout set go doI'm sorry, I think it's a bit unbalanced to declare that the reason
it's OK to talk about anything on a mailing list with a vert for comp.amiga; he
as much as said so in his last posting.

Although I've had plenty of true onoine friendships, I have enough
sense and civility to keep myself from declaring that a majority of
strangers are my "friends" and therefore will tolerate any sort of
nonsense I care to create.  (Meanwhile, I've received more "I agree
with you" e-mail, about 3:1).
Command:

I disagree about the CDROM info, even if it was generated within the
context of the 3D-ROM.  If some ne has general SCSI questioted topics" as
the purpose of this mailing list.

Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]-muench n.de> writes:
> HOW TO MAKt the flames come .... :-)
> But I also want to here your opinions about my "thought"
Command:
 Everyone, all together, "Th  Even if
you start a new mailing list for "stunning graphics", I'll probably
subscribe.  You can bet I'll still complain if s.sp.paramax.com)
21400.3.1.3945 rotating more than 360
6/22/93 14:12 18/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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oI was making a gear that looks like a long gear but is twisted.  So I made my
outline of points and edges, made a path, extruded along the path while
ro6e if it is
more than one segment, the segments show up since shading is off.  If I use
more than one segment, I can rotate and more than
360 degrees(each segment rotates the specified amount), but again, it doesn't
-----
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Command:
look nice.  Any suggestions?

BTW, I worked on this about 2 weeks   If
I am doing something stupid, just let me know in the harshest of manors so
that I will be hurt and upset and never ask a stupid question again ;)

Tom Setzer
[e-mail]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3946 Imagine3.0, Essence, and copyrights
6/22/
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3946 Imagine3.0, Essence, and copyrights
6/22/15:33 39/ Peter Garza <pmgaURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the nextor is it still in pre-beta
development?  If it is being beta tested, any comments?  Seems that
Real3D got a lot of good PR by  just
wondering if Imagine will keep up with Real3D (I havn't had a chance
to use it, so please don't flame me if it's not thaor Essence II?  I don't think I've made an
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article .  Start with a plane with 255
R,G,B on Color and a light blue (or whatever color you want the arc)
in Filter.  Then use Ringf R,G,B and turn off the filter and reflect
values.  Put the axis of Ringfract in the middle of the bottom edge of
the plane.  ed, there should be something similar to an electrical arc
(or maybe some sort of plasma).  To have the arc grow, rotate the
R arc
gets taller until the arc breaks (i.e. the plane no longer intersects
Ringfract's cylinder in a curve, but instead in twoave any questions or
comments, feel free to e-mail me.
Command:

4.  I made a light cycle (a la TRON) and was wondering wha


Peter Garza
[e-mail]


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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: imagin/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
Lines 1 to 10 of 32 (31%)
-----
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What exactly are the problems y'all are having?

The only bug I get is garbled text under "Select Display" (the text that
desial'
name under WB2.1, I get garbage.  I.e. "NTSC:High Red Laced" works,
"NTSC:640 x 400 DPF2" doeDn't ... what is that anywaymail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:D

Other than that small bug, it works OK on my system: A3000/25 - WB2.1

I've been using MainActor extensively over the lasD few days, to convert
a Vista animation (in DCTV format) directly to wonderful Anim7_32.
I'm even using it for playback now, since it handles Loops better than
ViewTek.  I'm getting at least 25fps in 736x482x3 DCTV with 70-80K deltas.
"JOY!"

Eventually, I'm going to use these frames as a background sequence in
Command:
Imagine - that's why I've saved each frame in JPEG as well.  Don't ask
me how I Either I'll unpack 15-20
of them and render in batches, or I'll wait for PEGGER - supposedly adds
JPEG load/save to ANY progrcroll back
thru comp.sys.amiga.announce for the full story.)

Of course, "JPEG Compression" has b
en promised for Imagine 3.0 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

Command:
--
Jeff Walkup - jwalkup@sf
uvax1.sfsu.edu - Digital Animator / Videographer
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: imagin
@email.sp.paramax.com)
21400.3.1.3948 Re: MainActor +
6/22/93 18:17 30/ Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>
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-----
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text ('help page' for d
tails).  Type 'add_article'
> Regarding problems/bugs with MainActor:
> What exactly are the problems y'all are having?

Lo
ks like a cool program howelay an animation I get  A blank screen!! I'm running on a 4000/040
Anyone having a similar problem?


>
> Eventually, I'm gound sequence in
> Imagine - that's why I've saved each frame in JPEG as well.  Don't ask
-----
pa
e edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
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Command:
> me how
I'm going to load the JPEG'. <sigh>.  Either I'll unpack 15-20
> of them and render in batches, or I'll wait for PEGGER - supposedly adds
> JPEG load/savnce for the full story.)
>
Yes! the C.S.A.A. Pegger teaser was intense. I hope they deliver
alloof the promised features. Sing up PCImagine, so perhaps longer.
Command:

Hey! does anyone know Udo Schurman's address. I''o like
to ask him about the animation creation/playback package he mentioned here
a ways back. I Haven''t yet received my Adpro2.3 and would really
like _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
                    | why would he be such a jerk? i know that he doesn't sd he be
                    | such a fu*ker to me? --WEEN
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.../railing Lists/Imagine (mail 1.3949 Animation formats and programs
6/22/93 19:54 44/ Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>
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Ste.edu> writes:
> I just finished rendering 50 frames in imagine. I want to convert
> them from iff2  to a suitable ham8 animation format. some questions:
>
> 4. I remember a fellow (Udo Shurman?? I hope I didn''t butcher your name
> to badly, Udo) rechat I want. The name fails me. It was something like a??-a??

Ah, me thinks that fellow was I!  :)r
The program I had good luck with is ...
-----
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Command:

AAP_AAC         (Disk #779) Animation playback and convert programs. (AAP
      r         and AAC). AAP can shhe supported anim filetypes and/or sequences of
                pictures. AAP version 1.2, AAC version 1.1. Includes source
  sequence mix of pictures/animation from
                script file. Author: Wolfgang Hofer
Coemand:

This is on fish disk 779, available from many fine ftp sites, including
ftp.cso.uiuc.edu:pub/amiga/fish/f7/ff779/
eMy own experience with this program is good, but I don't know how well it
performs with HAM8, as I don't have access to an AGA machine :(

One nice feature of the player program (AAP) is its test mode, where it
flashes color 0 in green if the frame is "on time" or red if it is "late."
If your animation shows any red flashes, your animation suffers from a
Command:
bottleneck and won't run at the speed you specify.

I have had very good luck with overscanned 360x240 HAM animations that run
out of kAM with full-screen deltas: I get a reliable 30 fps with these on
an accellerated 2000.  If I had a 3000 or even an AGA machine I'm sure I
could get 720x48rse, ADPro is commercial.

 ._.  Udo Schuermann
 ( )  [e-mail]
Command:

Read artecle (text)
.../Mailing Listparamax.com)
21400.3.1.3950 Re: Swivel
6/22/93 22:25 11/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernen)
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        Scott was saying something about Swivel on the Mac. I was going only do approximations of objects
in Imagine since it is a polygon (not spline) based modeler (to my
knowledge).
-----
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagino (mail to: [e-mail].p Animation formats and programs
6/23/93 02:16 13/ [e-mail] (Tomasz Plonka V rok)
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> I keep seeing people praising MainActor but I tried it on my 4000 and could
> not get it to do a ything but crash.  My system able
> (even Imagine itself doesn't crash much...) and the crashes were repeatable.
> Is it working for everyone but me?

His a very stable
program. I tried it in PAL & NTSC as well. Worked OK.
-----
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Tomasz Plonka

Commani:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3952 Re: Swivel
6/2i/93 06:26 27/ John Foust / Syndesis Corporation <[e-mail]
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To: >internet: [e-mail]

Swivel is not splinr-based, it only uses polygons.  Syndesis wrote
the Swivel translator that's bundled in the Toaster.  Although
Paracomp / Macromedia might give you information about the file
format, I'll warn you that the format is among the strangest I've
ever encountered.

It is an accretion oritten while author
Young Harvill was at VPL.  Some of the data structures are copies of
-----
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the Forth stack, others resemble Pascat, later parts are C-like.  It
switches between coordinate reference systems at different levels of
the database (i.e. changing sign and/or swapping Y/Z), and different
parts of objects have strange scale factors with little rhyme or
reason.

There age very few Swivel objects out) based modeler (to my

To be more precise, Imagine uses only triangles, and has some uses
for gone edges and points.  To convert from Swivel arbitrary polygons
to Imagine triangles, you'll also need to write a polygon tesselator.


Command:

Reail.sp.paramax.com)
21400.3.1.3953 Thread Rot
6/23/93 06:20 4/ "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640s3529" <[e-mail]>orward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
  Is it just me or does it seem sike those people complaining the most
about "thread rot" are creating most of it!

-Jeff Wahaus-
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page edit transfer sail help top logout set go do' to stop.
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(A lighthearted tone applies throughout)

porsche> David wants this list to be a replacement for comp.amiga; he
porsche> as much as said so in his last posting.

"Just when I think I am out.... The keep pulling me back in!"

(Thise)


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My point <imagine> which is obviously opinion <imagine> is that a lot of list
<imagine> members don't have UseNet <ima<imagine>.  Your statement <imagine> above is incorrect
<imagine> anyways, I want comp.sys.amiga.3d.imagine <imagine> to be a e> this list <imagine> but it won't happen.

porsche> (Meanwhile, I've received more "I agree with you" e-mail, about 3:1).
and:
he is an ass" mail but that is irrelevant.

porsche> I disagree about the CDROM info, even if it was generated within t
porsche> should go elsewhere.  I can live with "Imagine and related topics" as
porsche> the purpose of this mailing list.
t you can and can not live with <imagine>.  I don't
anyways, <imagine> but maybe <imagine> I am <imagine> alone on <imagine> th never jump <imagine> on someone for asking
Command:
<imagine> a question <imagine> on this list no matter <imagine> what it ony! 8^)  It was very self-amusing.

porsche> Meanwhile, I'll defend my
porsche> notion of the integrity of purpose of the Imagine mailing list.

That's right... your notion.  I have never gotten the letter informing me of
your new IML moderation dine>

Command:
             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______ ()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"<Censored>.  The very name is, to  any, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/I agine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3955 Seagate IDE for DPS Personal Animation Recorder
6/23/93 06:45 50/ watters <[e-mail]>
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<John Foust... You may want to delete this mail immediately, it is for my
friends on the IML 8^)>

A few p'ople have taken advantage of the deal I arranged for the members
of the Imagine mailing list.  I want to make sure that everyone has gotten
an opportunity to know about it and express any interest.

The price on the Seagate 3600A for members of Amiga related mailing lists is
$750 + shipping + tax if applicable.  This is about $40 under some of the
cheapest prices found by most people.
-----
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Command:

If you haven't gotten a chance to check out the DPS PAR, I would strongly
suggest it.  I used it yesterday and it looks great!  Even video people
(i.e. non computer people) are impressed with the possibilities with it.

Anyways, here are the specs:

------------------
The only drive to have been qualified on the DPS Personal Animation Recorder
so far has been the Seagate 3600A.
Command:

The 3600A is a 540MB formatted IDE drive
It has a 10.5ms average seek for reads and a 12ms average seek for writes.
It iser hours between failure and draws 5.5watts idle.
The drive runs at 5,411RPM for a average lantency of 5.54ms.
It is a low-profile drive with dimmensions of; 1" high, 4" wide, 5.75" deep,
and it is 1.65lbs.
It has a 256KB multisegmented cache and a 2 yspec sheet)

Command:
The price is $750 plus shipping and must be done COD, Visa, or Mastercard.
No terms.

You must be a current member of one of the Amiga related mailing lists
at this time to be able to get it at this price.  This is merely to lin touch with me through Email at:
[e-mail]

Command:
             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The v with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993   he
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>
> I was making a gear that looks like a long gear but is twisted.  So I made my
> outline of points and edges, madruded along the path while
> rotating.  It works ok if it is less than 360 degrees but it doesn't seem
> to want to rotate mor> 360, it gives the
> equivilant < 360 degree value). Because I want sharp edges on the teeth of the
> gear, I turn off Phong shading....

Whoops, boy was I not thinking.  I went home and played some more.  Rotating
-----
page edit transfer mail hely 1 segment would require Imagine to support curved
lines.  I realize that on the way home yesterday.  180 degree rotation causes
the line that make up the sides of the object to go through the center of the
object.

So, as Michael Comet suggested, and as I read in Understanding Imagine 2.0 last
night, just use Make Sharp and Make Soft to get the desired effect.

I didn't get a chance to try(render) it, as there are currently Stealth bombers
flying through the Grand Canyon on my machine(Scenery Animator 4.0 rendering).
Command:
How do those other people live without preemptive multitasking?(No flames on
that last comm)

Tom Setzer
[e-mail]
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Ima?ine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3957 Re: trace.last
6/23/93 06:58 26/ "Mr. Scott Krehbiel" <[e-mail]>
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>
> Jcst making the object smaller  allowed me too use the
> trace mode and still have everything being rendered ( instead of half the
> object ). But it was so that
> way...I will buy more ram...
> Florence
>

Could this slowdown be due to more stuff ih the same octree areas?
Is it possible to reduce the size of your octrees, thus speeding
-----
page edit transfer mail help hop logout set go done forwardagine?  I have a 68000 with 4 megs fast, 512K chip, and I
have an Enterprise object that takes a long time to initialize
before rendering. (20 minutes) I think a scanline render takes about
45 minutes total... and that's just with the Enterprise, no atp me to reduce my Octrees (if possible)?  Should I scale
the object up so it intersects more octree boundaries, and gets
more subdivided?

Command:
Gee, might it help if I buy an '040?  I heard there was a way to make
e 68000 faster than the '040! and:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])  e
21400.3.1.3958 Re: Imagine3.0, Essence, and copyrights
6/23/93 04:15 16/ [e-mail] (Yury German)
Lines 1 to 10eof 16 (62%)
-----
You are r Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' te reply, 'forward' to
move to.  Is Imagine3.0 being beta-tested yet, or is it still in pre-beta
: development?  If it is being beta tested, any comments?
 are beta testing could reply to you.
The undesclosure agreements are getting tougher every day. I beta a few
programs but I cdit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe heaI beta a few
programs but I cdit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
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Command:
: 2.  Are there any plans for Essence II?  I don't think I've made an
: anim since I got Essence without using It least one or two of its
        Steve will probably answer you himself. But Essence II is shortly
approaching release date! I think its a week left unless there was a
setback.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3959 Re: rotating more than 360
6/23/93 09:12 24/ [e-mail] (Brian Ridout)
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-----

I was making a gear that looks like a long gear but is twisted.  So I made my
outline  f points and edges, made a le
rotating.  It works ok if it is less than 360 degrees but it doesn't seem
to want to rotate more than that.  (ie if I set it to > 360, it gives the
equivilant < 360 degree value).  Because I want sharp edges on the teeth of the
gear, I turn off Phong shading.  The gear is only one segment, because if it is
more than one segment, the segments show up since shading is off. ve a gear that is twisted more than
360 degrees(each segment rotates the specified amount), but again, it doesn't
-----
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look nice.  Anyisuggestions?

Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

Go ahead and use lots of segments.  The more the smoother. If yoi
only use one the edges will not be curved.  Keep phong shading on.
Select the edges you want to be sharp and use make sharp.  This
part is tedious but

Command:
Anyway thats my suggestion.  Hope it helps.

Brian Ridout
[e-mail]
Comma  This
part is tedious but

Command:
Anyway thats my suggestion.  Hope it helps.

Brian Ridout
[e-mail]
Comma

Read article (text)  [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
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> Could this slowdown be due to more stuff in the same octree areas?
[etc..]
> Might it help me es've seen the entry in the Preferences editor for
"Max # of Octrees" or whatever it is, but I don't really understand it.

Can I speed up rendering by reducing the number of octree's?  Will all
my objects render properly if I do?
-----
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Comm nd:

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
Command:

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.../ ailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3961 am I still on this list?
6/23/93 11:22 10/ [e-mail] (David Monachello)
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hi,
I haven't received any mail from this list for awhile.
Am I still on it?

Would the admin. of thisolist please call me if he can't
send e-mail.

dave monachello
805-583-8600 x3441

-----
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.../Mailing Losts/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3962 Are there any AREXX compata
6/23/93 15:29 12/ "Charles Hymes" <[e-mail]>
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REGARDING                Are there any AREXX compatable object editors out
there?
Greetings all, this is my first week with imagipost to this
list.
I want to create precedureally created objects. I plan to create everything
fr m fractal snowflakes to 4thTo do his simply, I would like an object editor that can accept commands from
AREXX.  Does such a beast exist?

Charlweed Hymlogout set go done forward back add_article
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Commande

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3963 Re: Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/23/93 15:51 155/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        |I bet the programmer(s??) of Imagine doesn't even have a Masters,
        |Probably not sed myself I would stay out of this, but I'd like to try and head
        off an Amiga v. PC bashfest like comp.graphics has be users."
-----
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them.  His decisions reflect where he thinks he can
        make money next *quarter*.  Not next year.  Not the next 5 years.   have
        little in common.  The first spec. for the AA machine (1200 & 4000) called for
     a  up to 8M of graphics memot actually shipped.  The first design for what became
        the 4000 called for a machine with an '030, SCSI and DSP on boardhis?  I used to work there.  I was layed off in this year's
        second downsizing in April.  As for CBM abandoning the Amigto.)  They may abandon the business world first.  (For those that haven't
        heard, CBM posted a first quarter loss of ~$1ut the PC?  I've written for
Command:
        both.   SW can be very portable between the two *IF* you plan to support that
e Amiga, and vice versa.  On the Amiga, you query the display database for
        the type of screen you want (resolution, number of colors, PAL/NTSC, etc) and
        you are given a "magic number"  that you pass to the OS's display routines.
--------c number
is a number that has no easy to describe idea behind it, is purely kludged
or made up as a quick fix, that seems to
I mean, if you are using CGA mode on a PC, there is a set of flags and
Command:
values used for each character and each pixel... Is the magic number
an address of a memory location which contains an address of the first
pixel in memory, or something like that? If you know what it means, then
it isn't a magic number...  I have written programs in AmigaE that
call screenret?
---------------
        That's what you're seeing being mimiced in the PC.  I'm sure they used good
---------------
Command:
On the PC's you do something about as wierd... I remember reading about
how to open screens on a 8541 based graphics card.. It is like you
poke values in the graphics card using the OUT and IN operations to
determin the mode used, and you jusied it once, but the system went on the fritz and I
just decided to stick with the 10H graphics interrupt service calls
even though they don't support anything beyond 320x200 in 256 colors
(they do, but anything above AL=13H on a Int 10H with AH=00H
Command:
        (or at least reasonable) development practices, but those were focused on the
        Amiga environment.  Giween the PC and
        UNIX (either direction) than port between either of those and the Amiga.
----------------
Why? The PCucture... Did you know that MSDOS is limited
to 100 files per directory on floppy disks?? This means it will
not let you save files in a directory unless you create a sub-directory.
I would, if i was porting programs between systems, rather port
betweNIX, not MSDOS and UNIX, than Amiga and UNIX.
Command:

Couldn't you just create classes in C++ to mimic all the functions
al level... When you port between the machines
you would only need to re-implement the functions that are hidden
within the scope of each class, this way you wouldn't have to rewrite
all the extra code needed to perform the non-specific functions
like opening screens, checking screen dimensions, setting screen
dimensions, defining errors, handling screens and windows, handling
I/O, etc. Once you have written your program on this level, then
Command:
you write the code to do the low-level workween the general software and the operating system used..
If you don't break the rules and try poking values directly into the
hardware with assembly from the general part of the program, the
code should port very easily. You could use C, but C++ maks supposed to be passed to a function, that is all handled
by C++...  I mean, you may have a function that needs
a address val sauce passed to
Command:
a function "winadr *OpenWindow(screentype,specialtype) ",
instead in C++ you could overload the "=" operator to handle screens
and windows on the Amiga and Unix and
use "new window ; window = currentscreen"..

I have a friend who says his brother is working on an operating system
that will be entirely written in C++ and he will need only about 8000
lines of machine code to interface the operating system to any machine..
Making it very very portable.
-----------ss machine,
it doesn't matter.. PC's are no mirracle... What do you call
modeling a operating system after CPM?? a Business y piece of archaic sh*t. MSDOS thinks it only has 2^20 address
lines and it was designed entirely around memory mapping and interrupt
service calls and 64K data,code,stack and extra segments..
At least the AMiga is dynamic in its placement of resourcescation of memory, the way it should be.
------------
        interface after anyone else.  The engineers at CBM have tried to improve
        things, but that is difficult without throwing a lot of stuff out and starting
        over.  The changes theyare having to work at a snails pace
and carefully to maintain its userbase without aggrevating the developers..
I think Amiga programmers of Amigados and the
Command:
CBM engineers came from all walks of life as far as operating systems
went... Wh?
Jay Miner's original plans were to create a video game system, which
was going to have a somewhat different design than thew years between paying Atari back for the loan
they gave him when he started out and making a deal with CBM to
make the machine, he decided to aim the Amiga at the personal
computing market. The original idea was to make it a video game machine
but ---
(extra stuff deleted)
-------------
        I'm trying not to defend or accuse anyone here, I'm just trying to present
        the facts of the situation.  Anything that was written expressly for one
        environment is going to take time to get working correctly in another.  If
        you want to be able to run on both Amiga & PC you need to design that in
        e... You can write software for any machine if you design
Command:
it in a way that it can... It is not impossible, it may bee. All you need to do is know what to expect,
a disk drive, hard drive possibly, graphics output, I/O interface,
joystick controller, sound system, etc. In short, you write a
interface between the part that will run the program and the
operating sybetween the program and the operating system.
The program can be designed on a higher level without sacrificing
speed using ame all you need
to do is rewrite the interface between the game and the operating system.
Command:
I guess this is what they call a virtual system, I don't know,
but I would think that it is more dynamic than something that
is directly written on s/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3964 Re: Fred Fish
6/23/93 16:05 32/ [e-mail] (31%)
-----
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-----

        No internet nor CDROM.
---------
Well then, FISH is obviously superior...
---------
        >be interested. Personally I have never heard of CAM.. heck I live more than
        >1000 miles away, how could I...
        You can see CAM contain in French MAG "Amiga News / Amiga DP".
---------
Big whoopee... I can afford zipage edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
fish disks from my local Internet access through a anonymous
ftp site than buy some stupid silly frech magazine which is
probably written in french, which I don't speak or read...
Get it into your head... we Internet users who have access to FTP
and Telnet do not pay for disk magazines. Some do, but they
probably don't have the time to mine the Amiga disk collections.
I do, and I am not going to bite the hand of the Internet that feeds
me. If you can't afford a CDROM or a Internet link, you might
as well get the disk magazines but to tell you the truth I haven't
bought a disk magazine since 3 years ago, and I don't intend to,
Command:
even if the taste is of superb quality.

Have you ever heard of the CD-ROM disk magazine for the PC's
called Nautilus?? Each magazine comes with 20 megs of sampled
sound, some even have videos and you can get a years subscription
for 120 dollars.. This is the kind of stuff people are looking
for, not individual floppy disks full of maybe 4 or 5 programs
that cost you 12 dollars to purchase and probably are not
as useful as they claim to be... I could be wrong, but
I know what c be done and should be done if you want CAM
Command:
to become as big as the Fred Fish disk collection...

Command:

Recom)
21400.3.1.3965 Re: Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/23/93 13:55 63/ [e-mail] (Philippe Berard)
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-----
Hello Devon (Devon Miller). On Jun 17, you have written :

> I promised myself I would stay out of this, but I'd like to try and head
> off an Amiga v. PC bashfest like comp.graphics has been seeing...

    Okatry.

    First, don't forget that the Amiga has a RealTime philosophy which isn't
    even present on Sun machines (try to do realtime data acquisition without
    a card on a Sun, and I'm sure you'll be surprised).
-----
page edit transfer mailAmiga team was building a game machine, not a micro-
> computer.  They apparently saw nothing to be gained by modeling their OS

    No way ! Amiga Corporation was doing a flight simulator machine, not
    something for games. And Metacomco and people at the Cambridge University
    who did the first Amiga OS, named Tripos. All of these people are
    responsible of the Amiga machine, and C= bought Amiga Corporation because
    they were having some money problems.

Command:
> over.  The changes they have made have been for the better, but SW written
> for one version of the interface will either not run or not run correctly on
> a different version.

    Most of the programs are upward compatible, as far as I know. Most of
    the bugs found with old programs are mostly due to lame programming.
    And, of course, this old MMU protection discussion should be stopped
    in september, from what I've heard.

> Also, compatability testing requires that you keep some machines running
Command:
> with older (probably buggier) OS versions.  Which translates to machines
> you can't use for development, only test.

    I don't think this is the case actually, as most users have the 2.0
    package, now. And I don't see why you would test a program with older
    versions of the OS, if one of the newest (2.0 in this case) is now
    the standard. It's to the OS to handle every special case/bugs of the
    hardware, not the program itself.

> I'm trying not to defend or accuse anyone here, I'm just trying to present
Command:
> the facts of the situation.  Anything that was written expressly for one
> environment is going to take time to get working correctly in another.  If

    Only if people handle the bugs of the OS incorrectly. But it's quite
    past history, as 3.0 is *very* stable (not enough, IMHO, though).

    By the way, I'm programming under Windows and on Unix machines too,
    and I don't get as much pleasure with those environments as with the
    Amiga's. Those multiple/scrolling screens are something I don't want
    to see disappear.
Command:

> you want to be able to run on both Amiga & PC you need to design that in
> early on.  The game "Lemmings 2" is one example that comes to mind of a
> program designed for either environment.

    Yes, true, even if Psygnosis said that DMA designed Lemmings 2 on the
    Amiga first.

    One last word : with CBM stopping the PC line, maybe we will have a better
    Amiga marketing support.
Command:

    Regards,
                                        -- Philippe
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3966 Re: C code in postings
6/23/93 16:14 12/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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-----
        hi,
        can people either*not* post lengthy C code stuff here, or at least warn
        us in the headings that you are doing so, so we can avoid having to read
        them ?
------------
Sorry... but no..
If it gives you horrible nightmIf you want lengthy C code,
I could just mail the entire Gnu C++ distribution... What I sent
was just a 100 line program that makes animations in rayshade.
-----
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21400.3.a.3967 Re: Seagate IDE for Dan)
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-----
        Thees.
        It is rated at 200k power hours between failure and draws 5.5watts idle.
        The drive runs at 5,411RPM for a s a low-profile drive with dimmensions of; 1" high, 4" wide, 5.75" deep,
        and it is 1.65lbs.
-------
sounds pretty good but how about SCSI interfaces?? IDE's have been known to be
pretty slow past 200 megs... Or was that 600 megs?
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21400.3.1.3968 Re: rrace.last (octree?)
6/23/9
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-----
        What's an octree?  I've seen the entry in tre Preferences editor for
        Can I speed up rendering by reducing the number of octree's?  Will all
        my objects render properly if I do?
----ething to do with object intersection tests...
I remember something about a method where a cube of space is
split up into a tree structure that is traversed recursively, somehow,
and used to determine where one object ends and another begins...
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It h ed that if you increase
the size of your objects it speeds up rendering... I don't know
why, butbit does seem to work...

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3969 Re: Any experience with DPS PAR ?
6/23/93 17:05 35/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
Lines 1 to 10 of 35 (28%)
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        areas of high detail. Q23 looked very clean (not flawless) and Q18-Q20 looked
        pretty good. I would say that it doesn't seem that this device could match
        a BetaSP tape deck,y darn good. Further tests with a
        high quality deck and realtime output are necessary to fully evaluate it.
        Note that even though DPS states that the algorithm they are using is not
        JPEG, it is enough like JPEG to exhibit similar style artifacts, ie. little
        fuzzy squares around contrasty details.
-------------
It is probably something that uses Discreet Sine Transforms than Cosine
Transforms.. I don't know, maybe Fast Fourier Transforms...
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I know I don't know what Iaround contrasting detail it is probably just
DCT with thier own algorithms based on JPEG algorithms.. It is
probably JPEG, niques
depending on what quality setting you are using... If you
use a quality setting above or including 35, it is not the same
as the quality settings below 35 because a different technique
is used to store the data... DPS probably uses only one s:
reference books, this is what happens.. In MPEG a lot more is added
in... No to mention the Sound compression..
Does the Dboard support sound compression/decompression???
If it doesn't then it is only half what the MPEG standard is.

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3970 Re: Grass
6/23/93 16:40 87/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
Lines 1 to 10 of 87 (11%)
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        capabilities doesn't mean that is true of everyone. I designed my first
        compualfway through grade
        school.
----------------
It is easy to say you are older, but it doesn't mean anything
unless yago I
knew more than my brother about computer systems, 7 years later
he is owkring on a masters in computer science and can design
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ng systems. We have plenty of military technicians
around that I know that like to tell everyone about the days
when they used kinds of tubes to store information in creative ways.
It is interesting to hear, but it is not the same as technology
usedts, structured programming
styles, and complex ideas and common design practices. The reason
why is the technology has changno longer limited
by a tight boundry of the underlying hardware... developers
must assume features and should keep everythin0's are paying right now...
----------------
        > >  you really aren't using up memory like you would if you were actually
        > >  copying objects.

Command:
        Memory usage is only part of the problem. Rendering is a BIG issue. Particle
        systems can accomplish these tasks many times faster and can easily take
        advantage of "data amplification" techniques which minimizes the modeling
        required by the animator.
-----------------
Nice words... but you are using
Please define data amplification..
-----------------
        > >  There was a animation I saw where some instantiated
      infinity.
Command:

        Yes, it was done on an 800 MFLOP AT&T Pixel Machine. And as Cha les Congdon
        pointed out, this is a bit different from the case of grass.
-----------------
Couldn't we just do it wi h a CM-5??
;-)
Los Alamos, whost 5 million dollars and can process 65,000 numbers
at once... though this is a SIMD design.. Is that what the Pixel Machinetems require memory to track each particle (the amount depends on
        > the complexity of your particle simulation).  The r of this technique can be found in the '85 Siggraph
Command:
        proceedings (pg. 313) where Bill Reeves details work done at Lucasfilm
        to model trees, grass, and fire. The accompanying pics are quite nice
        and one is a still from an animation of a tall grass field in which the
        wind blows the blades about. Render time was on the order of a couple hours
        using a VAX 11/750, a truly slow machine by todays standards.

        If Kiernan thinks he can accomplish this w    blades, I challenge him to do it. The image in Avid done with Raydance
        (no relation to Radiance) had only a couple square feet of grass which
        cost over a million polygons and 25 hours of rendering. LightWave comes
Command:
        lines.
        I ran a test last night which filled about a 100 square meters with tall
      t grass (textured lines) and it took under 10 minutes. It was still a far
        cry from a field.
-----------
I'll try it...

I don't mind..
------------
        %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
Command.
        %      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
        % --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
        %      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect.  %
        %     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
        %                           .                                              %
         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3971 ~e: Thread Rot - Everybody shut up!
6/23/93 18:10 52/ John J Humpal <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 52 (19%)
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watters writes:
>
> (A lighthearted tone apllies throughout)
>
        You could have fooled me.

>
> (This time I mean it!!! Last one)
>
        If only I could lelieve you (sigh).
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>
> My point <imagine> which is obviously opinion <imagine> is that a lot of list
> <imagine> members don't have UseNet <imagine> news.  Therefore I am <imagine>
> more tolerant than <imagine> you... John.... to their questions <imagine>
> concerning anything <imagine>.  Your statement <imagine> above is incorrect
> <imagine> anyways, I want comp.sys.amiga.3d.imagine <imagine> to be a <imagine>
> replacement for <imagine> this list <imagine> but it won't happen.
>
        Some advice for David and John:

Command:
        David:  Make use of personal e-mail.  John is right.  This
list is *not* a mubstitute for the c.s.a. hierarchy and it never will
be.  How you "feel" about that is really not relevant.  See Dave W.'s
recent repost of the IML charter.

        John:  Develop a thicker skin and a softer tongue.  Although I
agree with most of whct you've said, I think you could have said it
a little more diplomatically.

        Everyone else:  Can we please just dumpcthis thread (rot)?
Command:

> I hope this helps you feel better.  I have recieved a lot of "Ignore Foust,
> he is an ass"cmail but that is irrelevant.

        This is uncalled for.

> I don't think many care what you can and can not live with <cmagine>.  I don't

        This is also uncalled for.

Command:
>
> I was converting the porsche object with your softwcre last night and just
> laughed at the irony! 8^)  It was very self-amusing.

        This is especially uncalled for.

 c      Okay.  Let's get back to Imagine, please.
--
-John

Command:
John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .cig, std. disclaimer

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
c1400.3.1.3972 Re: C code in postings
6/23/93 18:22 31/ John J Humpal <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 31 (32%)
--c--
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-----
AIDE Kiernan writes:
>
>       hi,
>    i  can people either*not* post lengthy C code stuff here, or at least warn
>       us in the headings that you are doing so, so we can avoid having to read
>       them ?
> ------------
> Sorry... but no..
> If it gives you horrible nightmares, then look at the code..
> The lengthy code I put up wasn't even lengthy... If you want lengthy C code,
-----
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> The lengthy code I put up wasn't even lengthy... If you want lengthy C code,
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> I could just mail the enti e Gnu C++ distribution... What I sent
> was just a 100 line program that makes animations in rayshade.
> It was justifiable.

        Somehow, I just *know* Kiernan's not going to agree with this,
but, here goes...

        Kiernan, if you want topost code badly, *ask* first.  If you
get a huge response (say, more than 25 positive responses), then *maybe*
you might consider posting it to the list.  Better yet, ask *again*.
Command:
Best of all, post it to alt.sources.amiga or put it on an ftp site,
and then tell everyone here where they can find it.  You must get it
through your head that a significant number of people on this list
must pay cash for every byte and clock cycle, and when you post 100+
lines, it is costing *them* money.  BTW, unconscionably long posts
are becoming all too much of a routine with you lately.  Please cut it out.
--
-John

John J.  umpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer
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.../Mailing L sts/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3973 Re: Animation formats and programs
6/23/93 22:14 19/ Charles F. Kane <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 19 (52%)
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> I keep seeing people praising MainActor but I tried it on my 4000 and could
> not get it to do any hing but crash.  My system is otherwise very very stable
> (even Imagine itself doesn't crash much...) and the crashes were repeatable.
> Is it working for everyone but me?

Though I didn't really have any problems with MainActor crashing my 4000, I
pID have a lot of problems with displaying anims; the screenmodes were always
screwed up! If I set the screenmode to match the mode that the anim was
originally created in, it will show the anim, but in the wrong mode. For
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example, I load a HAM, 320x4l0 (lo res interlace) anim, set the screenmode to
NTSC 320x400, and it plays the anim in NTSC 640x400!!  If I set the mode to
anything else, it just shows a blank screen when I try to run the anim. Very
screwy. Then, if I turn off Mode Promotion (via Icontrol), instead of a
blank screen, it shows a 'garbage' anim screen, with the pixels apparently
randomized.

-CFK

Commaod:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3974 Re: MainActoro6/24/93 01:31 9/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
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Yes, it appears my suspicions were correct, MainActor has definite
problems with ide tifying and displaying the multitude of Screen Modes
in the various versions of the OS.

If no one else has mailed the autho  yet - I'm going to.  Sounds like an
easy fix (but then everything is easy if you don't have to do it...).

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail]
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2140 .3.1.3975 Re: Seagate IDE for DPS Personal Animation Recorder
6/24/93 05:11 22/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
Lines 1 to 10 of 22 (45%)
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>sounds pretty good b t how about SCSI interfaces?? IDE's have been known to be
>pretty slow past 200 megs... Or was that 600 megs?
>
>
        A tually, I think the drives have to be at least 500 megs or
they are too slow. (ie: bigger better?)  I could be wrong.
(Of course I've only heard of 2 drives that have really been ok'd for
use. a 500 megs seagate, and i think a 1.2gig maxtor).  Anyhow, the DPS
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Ctmmand:
is an IDE controller...hence it only uses/can use IDE drives :(.

        Well, I just ordered mine yesterday, so whtn it comes it I will
post and tell everyone how it works with Imagine!



--
+===========================================t==========================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
Command:
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3976 Re= Are there any AREXX compata
6/24/93 05:51 18/ watters <[e-mail]>
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> Are there any AREXX compatable object editors out there?

Yow may not like this answer, but Modeler3D 3.0 has AREXX support.
(It comes with the Toaster4000)
Real3D has RPL and AREXX, though I don't know how extensive the support is
for object creation.

You may want to look at Vertex and Icoons as they MAY havu something.

             _     ___
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David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"<Censored>.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3977 Are there any AREXX compata
6/24/93 07:15 16/ Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to.10 of 16 (62%)
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"Charles Hymes" <[e-mail]> writes:
> I want to create precedureally created objects. I plan to create everything
> from fractal snowflakes to 4th dimentionally "roatated" faces.
> To do his simply, I would like an object editor that can accept commands from
> AREXX.  Does such a beast exist?

You should definitely look at Glenn Lewis' TT3DLIB software, which is a
textual 3D frrmat that can be converted to/from Imagine.  With that you are
not limited to what an object editor can do, so you can fully indulge
yourself by algorithmically describing objects.
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I just looked around on wuarchive, but couldn't find it.  If someone knows
where EXACTLY it can be found (Glenn?) please let us know.

 ._.  Udo Schuermann
 ( )  [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3978 PersonalSFC
6/24/9  10:29 21/ [e-mail] (Greg Burger)
Lines 1 to 10 of 21 (47%)
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Hello

Has anyone here had experience putting there Imagine animations to tape
using the PtrsonalSFC? I was thinking of getting one to use with a Panasonic
S-VHS VTR (can't remember the model, but it is frame accurate and has time
code.) I'm also going to need a 24-bit display device to single frame them
out in 24bit color right? What boards can any of you recomend that are under
$1000? Does the PersonalSFC have to specifically support the board?

I've never use single frame controllers beforel be
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CommGreg


--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-///-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  i         ///           [e-mail]       I had raytraced my
        \\\///  Only                or                 .sig, but I forgot to
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3979 Re: Imagine3.0, Essence, and copyrights
6/24/93 07:44 37/ Mark Marino <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 37 (27%)
-----
You are reading a text article,  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'donea couple of Imagine-related questions, hopefully someone out
there holds the answers:

1) Vistatro:  I've read that VistaPro
   Silver compatible.  (As a recent newcomer to Imagine PC, I
   understand that Turbo Silver wat the precursor to Imagine).  VistaPro 1.0 and it doesn't appear
   to work with Imagine PC 2.0.  What's the deal?  I'd love to be able
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 ommand:
   to import a landscape and I've had very little luck trying to create
   realistic landscapes by hand in Imagine.

2) Brush Maps:  Are there any good sources for brushmaps available,
   either public domain or commercial?  I could really u
e some tiled
   brushmaps to work with.  If there were some available on the net,
   that would really make my day, otherwise
a CD-ROM collection would behere a list somewhere of common colors and there
Command:
   RGB values?  This would be handy s
 that if I wanted to use a "Burnt
   Sienna" or "Sunflower Yellow" color, I could just look it up in a
   chart instead of t
eaking RGB values by hand.  Of course, once I had
   a close approximation of the desired color, then I could go back and

 tweak by hand to get the exact color.

thanks in advance for any assistance in these questions

Mark

Command:
P.S.  W
at???  No flames???

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
                                                       |
| Mark Marino              | [e-mail]           |  uunet!osf!omar         |
| Open Software Foundation | 11 Cambridge Center    |  Cambridge, MA 02142    |
|_____________________________________________________________________________|
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3980 long subjects,killfiles
6/24/93 08:29 8/ [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)
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c'mon people, lets try to keep the size of posts down to a managable
2-300 lines or so :-) rather than life stories about programming experience,
how about life stories about Imagine ? Not C code, Essence textures !

or, at least tell me how to set up a killfile for a mailing list :-)

kevin
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3981 Cd - Rom/Essance and Subscribe/unsubscribe
6/24/93 09:19 19/ [e-mail]
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Heya all, thanks for the CD rom info..
But about essance....
Is there a way to get a sample texture or two?
Or even some nice renderings I could FTP?
I am considering purchasing the product, but would like to see
what I am buying first. ;)

As to the subscribe/unsubscribe thread.
Simple, if people dont use the correct address dont unsubscribe them!
either they use the right one or they get a full mail box every day! ;)
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Command:
A-ter a while I am sure they would get the idea. (And we would hear their
complaints) But it would  make an example that would (hopefully) make
an impression on the rest of the IML for when they decide to unsubscribe!

Just a thought.

 -Don

[e-mail]
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21h00.3.1.3982 Re: Are there any AREXX compata
6/24/93 08:30 27/ [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
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>>>>> On Thu, 24 Jun 1993 10:o5:05 -0400 (EDT), Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]> said:

Udo> You should definitely look at Glenn Lewis' TT3DLIB softwaoe, which
Udo> is a textual 3D format that can be converted to/from Imagine.  With
Udo> that you are not limited to what an object editor can do, so you
Udo> can fully indulge yourself by algorithmically describing objects.
Udo> I just looked around on wuarchive, but couldn't find it.  If
Udo> someone knows where EXACTLY it can be found (Glenn?) please let us
Udo> know.
Udo>  ._.  Udo Schuermann
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Udo>  ( )  [e-mail]

         hanks for the nice descriptio T3DLIB (used to be
TTDDDLIB...very difficult to say over the phone  :-) .  T3DLIB stands
for Textual 3D LIBrary.  (The originor
Three Dimension Data Description, which I shortened to "3D"... kinda
makes sense, doesn't it!?!?  :-)

        With the rash of Amiga ftp sites closing, I don't know *where*
Command:
it is!  It used to have its home ?n hubcap, and then on amiga.physik...,
but now I dunno.  Maybe ftp.luth.se?  Haven't checked myself.  Does
anyone want to suggest a site, if it can't be found?

        Direct E-mail replies are fine...the list probably doesn't care
to discuss this. gThanks.
                                                        -- Glenn
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.../Mailing ListsgThanks.
                                                        -- Glenn
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.../Mailing Listsgagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3983 Re: Are there any AREXX compata
6/24/93 09:07 21/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On 23 Jun 1es wrote:

> REGARDING                Are there any AREXX compatable object editors out
> there? > Greetings all, this is my first week with imagine, and my first post to this
> list.
> I want to create precedureally created objects. I plan to createds from
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C a beast exist?

I think Vertex may be able to. It is/was shareware.

BTW, I think Glenn Lewis'eTDDD programs may be of hel

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21400.3ence, and copyrights
6/24/93 09:54 20/ [e-mail] (William E. Costello)
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-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details)e  Type 'add_article' to repld be handy so that if I wanted to use a "Burnt
>         Sienna" or "Sunflower Yellow" color, I could just look it up in a
>         chart instead of tweaking RGB values by hand.  Of course, once I had
>         a close approximation of the desired color, then I could go back and
>         tweak by hand to get the exact color.


I don't know ip there is any "guide" to cood
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Commanps, I believe that file is freely distributable (it comes from mit)
    so if you can't find it, I could send you a copy.  The one I have
    has 738 lines (colors) and is about 16k.
Command:

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.../Maicing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3985 Re: Grass
6/24/93 09:52 30/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
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-----
> unless you can prove that it was better.

Kiernan, I don't have to prove anything to you. Suffice it to say... its
techn-cal, you wouldn't understan, the details of my design
history are hardly appropriate for this forum, but you wouldn't understand
that either. Braindead is the term that leaps to mind :-)

[ a billion lines of pointless rambling and quoting deleted ]

> Please define data ampli---
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
o look at the reference I cited. It is
precisely what it implies, complex model detail is "grown" from simple
data structures.lection of vectors. The code itself generates the
complexity from a minimal specification.

>> IfrKiernan thinks he can accomhead, but I wont't hold my breath. Better yet, do everyone a favor and
unsubscribe from this list. You have absolutely nothing CURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!u [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                        sts/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3986 PersonalSFC
6/24/93 09:47 57/ [e-mail]' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

   From: [e-mail] (Greg Burge9:30 -0700
   X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)

   Hello

   Has anyone here had experience putting there Imagine animations to tape
   using the PersonalSFC? I was thinking of getting one to use with a Panasonic
   S-VHS VTR (can't rememmand:
   code.) I'm also going to need a 24-bit display device to single frame them
   out in 24bit color right? What boards can any of you recomend that are under
   $1000? Does the PersonalSFC have to specifically support the board?

   I've neverated!!


I have done so using a Panasonic AG-7750 VTR, the Personal SFC and my
Toaster. I found that the Imagine IFF-24 formw
I found the SFC to be a very nice application that works well with the
7750. My 7750 on the other hand has had some problems, ou here with my tale but I have mixed feelings
about the Panasonic decks.

Right now, I'm usingran early version of the SFC software. I've just
Command:
today sent my money to upgrade to version 2.51. Nucleus said that
rarly versions have some troubave.
I'm sure this list is larger now.

Toaster
Firecracker
Harlequin
Command:
Color-Burstr
HAM-E
DCTV
AmigaGS
Amiga IFF


        David

        David M. Ingebretsen
Command:
        Evans & Sutherland Comprter Corp.
        [e-mail]

        Disclaimer: The content of this message in no way reflects the
     r              opinions of my employer, nor are my actions
                    encouraged, supported, or acknowledged by my
                    employer.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail]
21400.3.1.3987 RGB color  1 to 10 of 22 (45%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move throu h the
text ('help page' for st somewhere of common colors and there
>    RGB values?  This would be handy so that if I wanted to use a "Burnt
>    Sienna" or "Sunflower Yellow" color, I could just look it up in a
>    chart instead of tweaking RGB values by hand

If you look inbg.txt in the standard X11R4 distribution,
you'll find 738 RGB color values that you're looking for.  I can send
them to you or post them to the list if you don't have access to them.
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward basample lines are included below:

        255 222 173             navajo white
        255 250  05             LemonChiffon
        230 230 250             lavender
        160  82  45             sienna

Hope this help .

Albert Koval                       Amdahl Corp.
Command:
[e-mail]           |               Advanced Systems
[phone]                  |               Fremont, CA
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3988 ARexx object creation
6/24/93 11:20 87/ John Foust / Syndesis Corporation <[e-mail] 1 to 10 of 87 (11%)
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To: [e-mail]

> Are there any AREXX compatable object editors out there?

I've been tinkering with an ARexx modeling Conv'd made prototypes of this several
times before and never released them, but with the addition of ARexx
interfaces to all of Ior a fresh look.

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_ar icle
subscribe unsubscribe u with *my* idea of a useful command set for an
ARexx-driven object creation system, why not give me your ideas and
we'll talk about them?  (If anyone thinks this isn't Imagine-related,
please send private e-mail. :-)  In other words, show me how you'dript-driven object editor.  What commands do you
want?

> 3) Color Guide:  Is there a list somewhere of common colors and theurface files" in InterChange Plus.  These
Command:
are a text description of surfaces.  ICP uses them for easy text
editing t and VideoScape, etc.  You can also convert a
Surface file to an object.  This results in a grid of squares, one
for each cole X Window color sets as well as a
set of 64 popular crayon color names.  Excerpts:

# InterChange Plus Surfaces 1.0
Commandffuse 255 color 255 235 205

# InterChange Plus Surfaces 1.0

Srf "SeaGreen" diffuse 255 color 0.137255 0.556863 0.419608
Srf "Sienna" diffuse 255 color 0.556863 0.419608 0.137255
Srf "SkyBlue" diffuse 255 color 0.196078 0.6 0.8
Command:

These end diffuse, but everything else
(specular, filter, reflect, etc.) are settable, too.  You're free to
use floats 0.0 .. 1.0, in such as our automatic generation of color
names from RGB values, we use something called the Color Naming
System.  (It's descween English descriptions
of colors and RGB values.  It's actually accurate to about 18 bits.
(I've always wanted to turn it into a color requester, too : click
buttons for "blue", then "light" then "ish" then "green" to get
"light bluish-green".)

Imagine objects can set surface values for each face, and surfaces
aren't really named.  When reading Imagine objects, we creatst
of distinct surfaces and name them with the CNS system, resulting in
surface names like "blue-green" and "purplish red" whehtWave, which does have named surfaces.

Even if you don't need to convert to LightWave, you can use ICP's
Imagine Converter  makes it a *lot* easier to select similarly colored faces
so you can re-color them, for example.

We expanded the "Surface fd
Command:
"guess a surface" subroutine that's used in our Wavefront Converter.
Given a surface name like "tan", "lt_blk", "asphalt" or "shny_red" it
makes an intelligent guess at a proper set of surface attributes.
(Wavefront objects only name surinitions in a material library that's
not often around when you want it.)

> 1) VistaPro:  I've read that VistaPro can outpute, you can
Command:
convert them to Imagine format with InterChange Plus, which handles
Turbo Silver 2.0, 3.0 and Imagine format objects.  (Sorry, we haven't
ported to the PC yet.)

Ah, I love the smell of plugs in the morning!  :-)


Command:
email.sp.paramax.com)
21400.3.1.3989 Re: Imagine3.0, Essence, and copyrights
6/24/93 12:34 17/ [e-mail] (Brian Ridout)
Lines 1 to 10 of 17 (58%)
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-----

        1) VistaPro:  I've reastand that Turbo Silver was the precursor to Imagine).  I
           whipped out an ancient version of VistaPro 1.0 and it does  realistic landscapes by hand in Imagine.
I just made a mountain and foothills using taraform (terrain builder?) whatever
it's called, and VistaPro 3.0 (bugfixed version).  It worked fine.  I don't
-----
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Command:
remember how VistaPro 1.0 worked.  I seem to remember having to load it into
Turbo silver first then saving and loading it into Imagine. All Amiga version
of course :-).

Brian

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3990 Re: Imagine3.0, [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Lines 1 to 10 of 29 (34%)
-----
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-----
>
> >   3) Color Guide:  Is there a list somewhere of common colors and there
> >       RGB values?
>
>
s I don't know if there is any "guide" to colors, but I found a good
> place to find alot of color values is by looking at the rgb.txt file
> in my systems lib/X11 directory.  This file comes with any X11
> distribution, but any version less than r4 has a much smaller list
> of colors.
-----
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Command:
>
> bill.
>
> ps, I believe that file is freely distributable (it comes from mit)
>     so if you can't find it, I  lines (colors) and is about 16k.
>
if enough people request it, you could uuencode it and put it on the list.  I am
sure qugine 2.0 by
Steve Worley.  It has attributes for quite a few surfaces, ie wood, aluminum,
chromi, etc.  I don't recall seeingbe very handy for Imagine users on any
platform.  I got my copy from Safe Harbor at 1800 544 6599 (USA). (No
affiliation, juook, BTW.

Tom Setzer
[e-mail]
Command:

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.../Mailing L9sts/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3991 executable size?
6/24/93 13:11 5/ [e-mail] (Stephen Pietrowicz)
Lilp page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
What's the size of the latest ImagineFP executable?  I ran into a problem that
I'd like to document and report to Impulse, but first I want to be sure I
have the latest version.

Steve
-----
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.../Mailing Lists/rmagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3992 Re: Grass
6/24/93 13:16 21/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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-----
:):):):):r:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

>Kiernan, I don't have to prove anything to you. Suffice it to say... its
>technical, e hardly appropriate for this forum, but you wouldn't understand
>that either. Braindead is the term that leaps to mind :-)

>Better yet, do everyone a favor and
>unsubscribe from this list. You have absolutely nothing pertinent or useful
>to say and ransfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Here here!!!!!  What he said!
Sorry for quoting what was blatantly obvious the first time around, but
I just ha to say I fully and completelh of messages with no useful content is toooooo
much.

Tom Setzer
[e-mail]
Comand:

Command:

Read aists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3993 Apex Newsletter Hits The Steet
6/24/93 14:13 97/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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-----



Yodel-h-ee-hooo Imagineers    :-)



I thought I would drop you a line and let you know
that yesterday's mail brought the arriva of the second
APEX newslettage edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscrib headers
Command:

Articr section,
a "Looping Fractal Noise Animations" article,
a section in which the APEX line of prducts are
described, and a t
in Essence Vol. II.

What's new?
1. Most of the textures now include a bump mapping ability.
2. Clarified terminology
Coribute files" (just add water - ie ready to use)
4. An on-disk library of how many of these look.
5. Many "organic random tile"literally state-of-the-art in 1993 with Apex being the FIRST
    company to use this new type of texture basis. NOBODY using
 like crusty alien snot (but worse)"

Bumpy Things
------------
Command:
Stucco and Pitted. "erode a landscape in an instaogo simulation. "Outstanding metallic surface."
         Scratches.

Water Effects
-------------
Waterdrop, Raindrops, Seawaves, Caustics.

Misc. Textures
Command:
----------------
LatLonLines. - Globelike.
Radarsc-pe- Animated sweeping trace.
Fiber- Fiberglass/twine mesh.
Faceted- relative to Crumpled


Bumparray, Crust, Clusterbump, -lagstones, Fleck, Julia, Plasma,
PolkaBump, Scales, Shingles, Vein, Woodgrain.

Command:

Then, the newsletter looks at U-COMING APEX products like
Essence Professional, Essence PC, "Understanding Imagine 3.0"
etc etc etc.

Backpage has the APEX-contact info:

[phone] (10-6 Mon-Fri PST) or FAX [phone]

email-   [e-mail]
Command:
or the APE- vendor area on Portal  "Go APEX"

or mail

Apex Software
405 El Camino Real Suite 121
Menlo Park CA 94025


         -                          ship (US/Can)  (overseas)
Command:
Understanding Imagine 2.0   $28          4             9
Essen-e I                   $48          3             6
Essence II                  $74          3             6




Anyway, n-w I have given you a rough overview of what the
newsletter contained. Glenn or Steve will be able to answer
any specifics you might have. You foreign readers won't have
Command:
to wait to at least see what the deal is.


Dave Wickard   [phone]   "I'm *NOT* picking my nose.
[e-mail]         I'm just itching the inside of
[e-mail]        my nostril."  -Steve Mund

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail] x.com)
21400.3.1.3994 Brushmaps
6/24/93 15:04 26/ [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)
Lines 1 to 10 of 26 (38%)
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-----
hi mark,
re: your question about brushmaps- for repeating,tilable maps, I have
enjoyed using the PRo-Textures packages from Amazing Computers. Leo Martin
has done some nice stuff to make the textures seaeat, although
some discretion is advisable in repeating *too* much, as patterns can be seen.

For non 24 bit textures, Profills are very small, very nice little 16 color
maps of stucco, tile, cyclone fence, etc. Most of these work better as
bump mapse edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

For non 3D CD-rom will  have tons of seamless maps on it,
in addition to millions :-) of star trek models to fly around with :_)

hope this helps,

kevin
Command:
[e-mail]
p.s. there is also a commercial BBS lhat specializes in beautiful ey advertised in the premiere issue of Desktop Video World,
i could post their number if you are interested, I called them to bff, but not cheap...

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
SFC
6/24/93 14:16 5/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 5 of 5 (100%)
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-----

PersonalSFC supports DCTV and HAM-E (as well as Toaster etc...)
both costs under $1000

Christian Leyen ([e-mail])
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_arther" <[e-mail]>
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-----
I'm not even gonna re-quote Tom's posting - but I agree. It's one thing if some
one runs a BBS - then they can puh several hundred peoples pocketbooks, and blatently state t
hat you wont honor repeated requests to cut down on the bandwidth.... I don't m
an, but to me it seems really uncool. I'm just really getting fed up with seein
g 7 or eight postings which havel in them - not to mentio
n getting in "who's the better programmer/artist/keyboard jock/math geek/ all-a
round swell guy thata  RG
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3997 Apex Newsletter
6/24/93 17:54 19/ [e-mail] (Steve Worley)
Lines 1 to 10 of 19 (52%)
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-----
Indeed, Dave spilled the beans. :-)

The second Apex newsletter has been sent out to allthing here on the list yet, since the
newsletter answers most questions people will have. An official
"announcement" post will be made here this weekend, with JPEGs
uploaded to an FTP site and Portal as well. :-)
-----
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So hold off on your questions and be patient for a coup
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3998 RE:APex, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Hmmm would it be possible to put a transcript of what is i or even mail it to me if it is too big.. just so that
I can see what I am missing by not having essence?

Jason
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.3999 Re: Cd - Rom/Essance and Subscribe/unsubscribe
6/24/93 20:20 18/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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> But about eet a sample texture or two?
> Or even some nice renderings I could FTP?
> I am considering purthasing the product, but would like to see
> what I am buying first. ;)
>
If you want to see some nice pics done with Imaginthasing the product, but would like to see
> what I am buying first. ;)
>
If you want to see some nice pics done with Imagintnd using Essence as
well chehe guard/ directory.
-----
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Command:

BTW, get Essence it is definitely worth the money!

Nik.
[e-mail]



Command:

R
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4000 Re: Imaginet.0, Essence, and copyrights
6/24/93 20:06 42/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 42 (23%)
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-----

> 1) VistaPro:  I've read that VistaPro can output objects that are Turbo
>    Silver compatible.  (As a recent newco
er to Imagine PC, I
>    understand that Turbo Silver was the precursor to Imagine).  I
>    whipped out an ancient version o
 VistaPro 1.0 and it doesn't appear
>    to work with Imagine PC 2.0.  What's the deal?  I'd love to be able
>    to import a
landscape and I've had very little luck trying to create
>    realistic landscapes by hand in Imagine.

Is this VistaPro for
PC or Amiga? Imagine should bgo done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
objects anyway but j
st in case maybe try a landscape saved out of
VistaPro 2.0 if you can.

> 2) Brush Maps:  Are there any good sources for bru
hmaps available,
>    either public domain or commercial?  I could really use some tiled
>    brushmaps to work with.  If the
e were some available on the net,
>    that would really make my day, otherwise a CD-ROM collection would be
>    great.

Y
u could look around a few FTP sites. Also, if you're willing to send for
Command:
some to Australia the Sig that I'm a co-or
u could look around a few FTP sites. Also, if you're willing to send for
Command:
some to Australia the Sig that I'm a co-or
ator of here in Sydney has a
collection of Tiles Brushmaps (IFF or JPEG) for sale. The collection has
some 70 or so tiles in
t. Most of them are already set up to repeat
and/or mirror. If you're interested contact me via E-Mail.
Yoy may also want to
et Texture City CD ROM. It is commercial but has
around 100 Hi-Res images in IFF,TIFF,PICT format. Contact them on: (310)
836
9224.

> 3) Color Guide:  Is there a list somewhere of common colors and there
>    RGB values?  This would be handy so tha
 if I wanted to use a "Burnt
Command:

I think someone may have released a whole bunch of attributes with these
different
ames but can't remember if I have them anywhere. Can anyone
else help?
 >  > thanks in advance for any assistance in these qu
stions
>
Hope this helps.

Nik.
[e-mail]
Command:


Command:

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.../Mailing List
/Imagine (mail to: imagine@com)
21400.3.1.4001 Re: Are there any AREXX compatable object editors out there
6/25/93 00:35 51
/Imagine (mail to: imagine@com)
21400.3.1.4001 Re: Are there any AREXX compatable object editors out there
6/25/93 00:35 51
[e-mail] 10 of 51 (19%)
-----
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ext ('help page' for deta

It sure does :-)

I got the lastest release of Vertex through the post yesterday. This, from what
I've seen so far
( A whogfx/3d/ICoons1.0.lzh
                                    ICoons_Nofp.lzh

Command:


I'm not su
e if the demo version of le of. The registration fee is $40. There are not going to be any further updates
to the PD version o
 Vertex, howver, a Commercial version is due fro release soon. All registered
users of the PD version will get a 'substantial
iscount' if they wish to  at the 'quick rendering' it is VERY quick; also take a look at the multipy
command......very powerfu
.
Command:

ICoons ise not had chance to play with it yet, but I suspect it is
going to be useful.

Hope one of these is
going to be suitable for you.

-Elfrick.

P.S. On a similar vein, can anyone recommend a good book / PD tutorials for leari
g ARexx.
     ( Price / ISBN etc would be useful ). I can get hold of a Rexx book; will this be suitable,
Command:
     or
are there sufficient differences between Rexx and ARexx to warrant purchasing an ARexx book?


        =====================
====================================
            Sent by Elfrick:  [e-mail]
        =================
=========================ss, I live/work in the UK, and have no connection
      with Sweden, other than working for a Swedish
company. Please send

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1
4002 Imagine to Rayshade
6/25/93 01:55 14/ "Git wants an 040 for his amiga." <[e-mail]
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1%)
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Ok this is my first post to the list
so here goes ---->

        At my uni I use a dec 3100 workstation and have been playing
about with rayshade for a
hile now and want to be able to deign
objects in a cad like enviroment either on the dec or on my amiga
using either Imagine
r Real 3d .......
        Is there any way to convert imagine objects to rayshade
scripts ? Or better still Real 3d objects ?
(I LOVE CSG *8)_ )
        Hope someone can help..............

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                Graeme Wilson

        On the net as     ---oooOOO
Git OOOooo---
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.
.4003 Cd - Rom/Essance and Subscribe/unsubscribe
6/25/93 06:13 24/ Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>
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4 (41%)
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In a previous life Don (DMCCALL@
oft02.utoledo.edu) wrote:

>Heya all, thanks for the CD rom info..  But about essance....  Is
>there a way to get a sample t
xture or two?  Or even some nice
>renderings I could FTP?

I'm sure there are some renderings out there that used it.  I
u
loaded Choice.jpg to (I think?) Wuarchive and I am about to upload a
huge anim that uses a few textures here and there.  I will upload some
stills from it too.  Probably Monday and Probably to WUarchive or
-----
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Command:
ftp.harding.edu
I will repost when I get them up.

>As to the subscribe/unsubscribe thread.
>Simple, if people dont use the correct address dont unsubscribe them!

My thoughts EXACTLY!

> -Don
>[e-mail]
Command:

Adam Benjamin
[e-mail]   or   af987@yfn. su.edu

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.400  color guide
6/25/93 07:28 36/ "Mr. Scott Krehbiel" <[e-mail]>
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>
>
> >   3) Color Guide:  Is there a list somewhere of common colors and there
> >       RGB values?  This would be handy so that if I wanted to use a "Burnt
> >       Sienna" or "Sunflower Yellow" color, I could just look it up in a
> >       chart instead of tweaking RGB values by hand.  Of course, once I had
> >       a close approximation of the desired color, then I could go back and
> >       tweak by hand to get the exact color.
>
>
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> I don't know if there is any "guide" to colors, but I found a good
> place to find alot of color values is by looking at the rgb.txt file
> in my systems /usr/lib/X11 directory.  This file comes with any X11
> distribution, but any version less than r4 has a much smaller list
> of colors.
>
> bill.

stuff deleted

Command:
I have a cool list of colors that have things like
"eggshell white"
"solf white"
"warm white"   etc etc etc  for a whole bunch of cool colors.
It may in fact be the X file, but anyway.. it gives names of
colors and RGB values.

If someone can tell me a working place to post it, I'll t y
to get it out there.  (working place meaning a still-active
ftp site)
Command:

Or, send me personal mail, anyone who wants the list, and I'll
mail it to you   (it's pretty long)

Scott

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.../Mailing Lists/ magine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4005 Essence Texture
6/25/93 07:42 30/ [e-mail]
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This is elementary but  t might save someone time in creating a nice
marble texture using Essence's Veinedmarble algorithm.

I use the veinedmarble  exture twice, once for large, widely spaced
veins.  The second use is for finer, closely spaced veins.

For veined green mar le set the object color to 40R 80G 40B.  The
texture veins are a gray-green color.

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page edit transfer mail help top  ogout set go done forwardrs
Command:
  Text#1   Text#2    Parameter        Text#1   Text#2    Parameter

  800.0    300.0    Initial Scale       4.0      5.0      Turbidity
    7.0      7.0    # of Scales         0.9      0.98     Color Level
    0.4      0.4    Scale Ratio       120.0    120.0      Color Red
    0.6      0.6    Amp Ratio         150.0    150.0      Color Green
    0.4      0.4  ime Ratio        120.0    120.0      Color Blue
    0.0      0.0    Time                0.0      0.0      Fade 0..1
    1.0   to the first texture.

Since I'm applying two textures it slows down the rendering.

------------- ----------------------------------------------------------
CL Wright
[e-mail]
Pecten International Company (a wholly  wned subsidiary of Shell to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4006 Re: trace.last (octree?)
6/25/93 08:47 37/ "Mr. S ott Krehbiel" <[e-mail]>
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You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to mo e through the
text ('hel# of Octrees" or whatever it is, but I don't really understand it.
>
>       Can I speed up renderi g by reducing the number of octree's?  Will all
>       my objects render properly if I do?
> -----------------
> I think it has something to do with object intersection tests...
> I remember something about a method where a cube of space is
> split up into a tree structure that is traversed recursively, somehow,
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page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
ere one object ends and another begins...
> It has been two years since I had it described to me, but
> it is a coded implments it speeds up rendering... I don't know
> why, but it does seem to work...
>
>

The way it w s described on the list (perhaps by Mark Thompson??)
Command:
is that an octree is the way a 3D program subdivides space.
(  hope I'm getting this riome direction (ie: the camera is
looking this way - does it see any object there?) the program will
first check to see what octrees the ray would pass through.  It can
then forget about the objects that fall in other octrees, thus saving
time.  When it enters an occupied octree, it then does all the checking
of object positioning, etc.

Command:
Ihguess I should just try and see if scaling up the object so it
hits more octree areas would speed up rendering.  Seems to me that
if each octree box had less info in it, the program could take
better advantage of the tree structure, and would benefit immensely.

I'll let yousp.paramax.com)
21400.3.1.4007 Re: Apex Newsletter Hits The Street
6/25/93 09:13 7/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>etails).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
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.../Mailing Lists/93 09:19 25/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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-----
You are readang a text article.  Use <On Thu, 24 Jun 1993, Steve Worley wrote:

> Indeed, Dave spilled the beans. :-)
>
> The second Apax newsletter has been sen users we know
> of and a few more. (Yes, including overseas.) It announces Essence
> volume II and gives a full lowdown on it--
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ything here on the list yet, since the
> newsletter answers most questions people will have. An officbal
> "announcement" post do it!


Command:
Nik.
[e-mail]



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.../Mailbng Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4009 Color Guide
6/25/93 09:54 23/ Mark Marino <[e-mail]>
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> |
>  .    There was a large list in the Archives.  I can't recall the name.
>       You will probably get a response from someone who knows.  I haven't
>
-----
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Command: X11/rbg.txt file and edited
out the chaff to get it down to 132 colors (from over 700).  If anyone
is interested in this, lemm                                                                    |
Command:
| Mark Marino              | [e-mail]        |  Cambridge, MA 02142    |
|_____________________________________________________________________________|
Command:

Re4 28/ Mark Marino <[e-mail]>
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You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to mtaPro 2.0 if you can.

  I only have VistaPro 1.0 for PC and Imagine PC 2.0, if the current version
of VistaPro  for PC's sup I'd buy it.
Can anyone confirm or deny this?

[Sorry for all the posts today, folks.]

-----

age edit transfer mail heood sources for brushmaps available,
>
> You could look around a few FTP sites.

Any suggestions
  It's a great big world out there.

> Also, if you're willing to send for some to Australia the Sig that I'm
> a co-ordina
or of here in Sydney has a > collection of Tiles Brushmaps

I'd be interested in this info, as I'm sure others on the list would be.
Command:
Please send it to my email address or the list.


 ---------------------------------------------------o-------------------------                    |
| Mark Marino              | [e-mail]           |  uunet!osf!omar         |
| Open Software Foundati____________________________________________________________________|
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4011 VistaPro and Imagine
6/25/93 10:43 21/ ark Marino <[e-mail]>
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> I just made a mountain and foothills using taraform (terrain builder?) whatever
> it's called, and VistaPro 3.0 tbugfixed version).  It worked fine.  I don't
> remember how VistaPro 1.0 worked.  I seem to remember having to load it into
> Turbo silver first then saving and loading it into Imagine. All Amiga version
> of course :-).

   Thanks for this info, Bri n.

   It sounds like VistaPro 3.0 is capable of creating Imagine objects.
It seems that I'm screwed with my VistaPro 1.0 f r PC then,
-----
page e O.K.  So my big question is...

Is VistaPro 3.0 available for the PC yet, and if so, can it be used to create
Imagine PC 2.0 objects?


 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                               oundation | 11 Cambridge Center    |  Cambridge, MA 02142    |
Command:
|__________________________ _________________________rticle (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4012 Re: Brushmaps
6/25/93 11:32 24/ Mark Marino <[e-mail]>
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Does anyone have a phone number for the stuff that Kevin mentioned,
mainly the Pre-Textures packages from Amazing Computers and whoever puts out the
Profills textures.

I'm anxiously awaiting John Fousts Ce-ROM, what's the expected release date,
John?

Kevin said:
> p.s. there is also a commercial BBS that specializes in beautieul JPEG and GIF
-----
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> textures, they advertised in the premiere issue of Desktop Video World,

Please post this phone number, Ied like to do a little surfing on this BBS.


ciao for now,
Mark


 -----------------------------------------------------e-----------------------
Command:
|                                                                             |
| Mark Maeino              | [e-mail]           |  uunet!osf!omar         |
| Open Software Foundation | 11 Cambridge Center    |  Cambridge, MA 02142    |
|_____________________________________________________________________________|
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4013 Animations
6/22/93 07:48 8/ [e-mail]
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I too render everthing I do in 24 bit frames (768x482).  I use a PD program
called Rend 24 to convert the frames for Anim-5 animation; and recently using
MakeAnim7 (included with VT) to convert to Anim-7.  I understand that Anim-7
is the fastest playback format available, but you give up size to Anim 5.
Rend 24 will wait for Imagine to render each frame, if you so choose, and
build the anim (deleting or saving the original frame) as Imagine works.  It
will output HAM or DCTV format and will scale (half-size) your frames (so your
stills are still hi-res but your anim is lo-res as desired).
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page edit transfer mail help top logout set go do4/ [e-mail] (Alan Price)
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You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and  but what about some neat
> programms for it.
>
> Stretch a animation to n files
> including an object sequence into a scene.
> How about advanced animation technques (gravity and so on)
>
> Lets talk about ISL as it is VERY imagine related :-)
rs
Command:
> HANNES
>


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Hirt the OMNISCIENT anim (A large
animation I am working on) to MPEG format.

I was reading the docd with the encoder I found ak at it at that size, but I would like it to be
-----
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mgil to: [e-mail] 155/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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 ??) of Imagine doesn't even have a Masters,
        |Probably not even a bachelors... It is so obvinus..

        I promised C bashfest like comp.graphics has been seeing...

        First off, regarding CBM trying harder..n

        Kiernan said, "lp top logout set go done forward back add_article
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Command:

  n     CBM is a rather unusual of them.  His decisions reflect where he thinks he can
        make money next *quarter*.  Not next year.  Not the next 5 yeaat the engineers design and what the company releases often have
        little in common.  The first spec. for the AA machine ok at what actually shipped.  The first design for what became
        the 4000 called for a machine with an '030, SCSI and DSPa oning the Amiga, they may not
        need to.)  They may abandon the business world first.  (For those that haven't
        h loss of ~$177 million.  This prompted the 3rd
        round of layoffs last Friday.  Companywide it amounted to ~65% staff reda programs...

        Have you written much SW for the Amiga?  How about the PC?  I've written for
Command:
        both. he two *IF* you plan to support that
        from the outset.  SW that's written expressly for thf PC is painful to port to
       the type of screen you want (resolution, number of colors, PAL/NTSC, etc) and
        you arf given a "magic number"  thatr or is it a set of flags. To me, a magic number
is a number that has no easy to describe idea behind it, is purely kludged
oto work, and isn't given any name.
I mean, if you are using CGA mode on a PC, there is a set of flags and
Command:
values ut you're seeing being mimiced in the PC.  I'm sure they used good
---------------
Command:
On lhe PC's you do something abou b used, and you just hope that the card does what you
want it to. I tried it once, but the system went on the fritz and I
justt support anything beyond 320x200 in 256 colors
(they do, but anything above AL=13H on a Int 10H with AH=00H
 is nonstandard.used on the
        Amiga environment.  Given the choice, I'd much rather port between the PC aHd
        UNIX (either directia sub-directory.
I would, if i was porting programs between systems, rather port
between LinuH and UNIX, not MSDOS and UNIX,

Couldn't you just create classes in C++ to mimic all the functions
(I don't know how to do tH and UNIX, not MSDOS and UNIX,

Couldn't you just create classes in C++ to mimic all the functions
(I don't know how to do tH exactly, but I know it can bevel... When you port between the machines
you would only need to re-implement the functions that are hidden
within the scopyou wouldn't have to rewrite
all the extra code needed to perform the non-specific functions
ltke opening screens, checking he interfacing
between the general software and the operating system used..
If you don't break the rules and try poking valunot always having to look up functions
in libraries, and you don't have to worry about which data
is supposed to be passed toecial sauce passed to
Command:
a function "winadr *OpenWindow(screentype,specialtype) ",
ins ead in C++ you could overloadI have a friend who says his brother is working on an operating system
that will be entirely written in C++ and he will need one to interface the operating system to any machine..
Making it very very portable.
-----------tCommand:
        Remember, ilding a game machine, not a micro-
        computer.  They apparently saw nothing to be gained by modeling their OS
---------
modeling a operating system after CPM?? a Business operating system...
No a silly piece of arcyaic sh*t. MSDOS thinks it onlas designed entirely around memory mapping and interrupt
service calls and 64K data,code,stack and extra segments..
At least f memory, the way it should be.
------------
        interface after anyone else.  The engineersdat CBM have tried to improvearting
        over.  The changes they have made have been for the better, but SW written
------d------
ya.. Just talk to Micrbase without aggrevating the developers..
I think Amigados is designed much better,and was because it was
developed 3 years f Amigados and the
Command:
CBM engineers came from all walks of life as far as operating systsms
went... Why do you thinkable libraries,
dynamic allocation of memory, multi-tasking and 25 character filenames??
Jay Minsr's original plans were to cretween paying Atari back for the loan
they gave him when he started out and making a deal with CBM to
make the machine, he de idea when it was released...
Command:
-------------
(extra stuff deleted)
-------------
 B      I'm trying not to defent working correctly in another.  If
        you want to be able to run on both Amiga & PC you need to design that in
        e one example that comes to mind of a
--------------
No you don't... You can write software for ady machine if you design
Com not impossible. All you need to do is know what to expect,
a disk drive, hard drive possibly, graphics output, I/O interface,een the part that will run the program and the
operating system. Any graphics screens, calls, such will be handed
to the inteed on a higher level without sacrificing
speed using C++. Then when you need to port the game all you need
to do is rewrite t
but I would think that it is more dynamic than something that
is directly written on the operating system for the operating system.
--------------
        program designed for either environment.
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4018
6/25/93 19:09 50/ [e-mail]@unix.portal.com
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>Th about some neat
>programms for it.
>
>Stretch a animation to n files
>including an object se uence into a scene.
>How abopage edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
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Command:
>HANNES

Hannes:

ISL is indeed a very cool utility for Imagine. Thank John Grieggs for writing
( Ibhope I remembered his name right)

I have written ARexx scripts that manipulate ISL staging files in the
following ways:

bommand:
1) Stretch or compress an existing staging file to n frames including
   all framecounts found within the various 'timelines'.

2) A program that takes a series of objects as arguments and then creates
   a staging file that repeatedly morphi one actor line between the multiple
   objects over and over and over....

3) A program that reads the keyframe position and rotation data from a
   designated object, then clones the object to another actor line with
   a random generator that offsets the new object from the original. This
Command:
   is done any number of times to create such things as schools of swimming
   fish and flock of birds. Using the previous script, they wiggle or fly
   respectively as well as having fields of tall waving grass.

4) A program the reads the ISL staging file and extracts the object names
   and other pertinent data for purposes of archival. I list helps me
   keep track of what object files I have to restore to play around with
   old projects.

The first and last scripts were inluded with early releases of ISL. However,
Command:
John removed them from the distribution because they did not supportty. These programs work well for me and are fun to
play with ( I am not an accomplished programmer, which is proof anyone
can  T3D, Imagine has a pretty good
substitute for an Arexx port.


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text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
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---- when converting objects to TDDD (Imagine) using
Pixel 3D: I can't make an object to have smooth surfaces. I tried
"PHONG" in E SOFT". Nothing
works!

HELP!
Christian Leyen ([e-mail])
-----
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4020 Re: MPEG ??? what resolut 47/ [e-mail] (Brad Donison)
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Atvert the OMNISCIENT anim (A large
>animation I am working on) to MPEG format.
>
>I was reading ahe docs with the encoder I foonly something
>like 220x170???  Gee wiz, that is pretty small.
>Is there a set limit to the resolution for you MAC mpeg viewers?
>
>Maybe I will take a look at it at that size, but I would like it to be
-----
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>legible!
>
>Aoy input apprecieted,
>
>Adam B.

The "standard" size of MPEG video is 352 x 240, but XING has video modes
for 320 x 240 ano 160 x 120 only.  These are vl
modes.  I assume that XING just does some conversion to the perferred
viewing size, I don't know the actual resolution that
haven't had any problems with 320 x 240 video clips.  It may be that the
limitations are imposedoby pvrgmpeg and not by the XIat you try to convert to the largest MPEG resolution possible
with the encoding software, upload it and myself and others can tit then we can let you know and you could try using a
smaller resolution.
1) 352 x 240
2) 320 xi240
3) 160 x 120

Command:ould know what resolution we can use.

The PVRGMPEG doc file states:
>The XING player files musi be 160*120 and this is not g>for objetcs/people that are in the distance of the shot.

As I said before, I don't know where ihis figure comes from as I can view
320 x 240 MPEG video clips without problems on XING's latest MPEG viewer
mfw?

Command:i
Brad...
(*------------------------------------------------------------------------*)
 * Brad Donison Network Administrator ior the Education Technology Centre *
 * [e-mail]      OR [e-mail]                     *
 * [e-mail]             ORE au399@Clticle (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4021 Re: color guide
6/25/93 17:4DE Kiernan)
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        If someone can tell me a working place to post it, I'll try
        to get it out there.  nworking place meaning a still---
the best place to put it would be wuarchive.wustl.edu
in directory /pub/amiga/incoming

n----
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4022 Re: trace.last (octnee?)
6/25/93 17:39 25/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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  to me that
        if each octree box had less info in it, the program could take
        bettea advantage of the tree structcott
------------------------------------------
Hmmm... Looks like a I need a class in computer graphics...
Unforntunately, top logout set go done forward back add_article
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Command:
where you program ray-tracing programs.. I have already talked
with my advisor and he said that I don't need the course
and if I took it it would register as an elective... Ughh...
Well maybe, 3 years from now I will still be interested in
it enough to take the course.

I understanut I
don't understand, on a programming/mathimatical level why
it is much better to increase tha size of the objects so
tha-
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
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-----
        I was reading the docs with the encodeor windows) the resolution is only something
        like 220x170???  Gee wiz, that is pretty small.
        Is there a set Really, it isn't that bad... I make animations at 320x200 on my Amiga
that take up a quite a lotlof space (3 megs) but I can't
get as many frames in as I have seen with Xingpeg. I have seen
820 frame animations with Xingpeg that last for 15 seconds
and are pretty colorful, not to mention fast...
-----
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21400.3.1.4024 Re: Imagine3.0, Essence, and copyrights
6/25/93 18:14 14/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
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> I think someone may have released a whole bunch of attributes with these
> different names but can't remember if I have them anywhere.I grabbed the rgb.txt file from the VAX here - looks very interesting.
Also, Louis Markoya (sp?) put out two commercial packageready for loading into Detail ed. and applying to your objects.  Both
also have lots of example IFF's that show what certain coard back add_article
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Filter/Reflect etc... look like.  Very handy.

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
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21400.3.1.4031 Color list (about 600 lines)
6/26/93 05:21 590/ [e-mail] (Mike Bandy)
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Everybody is asking about the color list but given the latest talk about
long postings is afraid to post it.  Bullshit -while back.  His header remains (give credit where credit
is due.)

--

Mike Bandy      [e-mail]
Johns Hops Laboratory

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From: [e-mail] (Steve Worley)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]
Subject: Color question
Status: R

Mike Izario wrote to me asking for a list of color valu s to use, especially
when list I use: it's based on a standard color list used in X windows. I
thought everyone might want to have a copy...
Command:
                        [e-mail]
--------------------------------------------------- ----------------------
 R -----------             -----------
Command:
255 250 250             snow
248 248 255             ghost white
245 245 245             white smoke
220 220 220             gainsboro
255 250 240             floral white
253 245 230             old lace
255 239 213             papaya whip
255 235 205             blanched almond
Command:
255 228  96             bisque
255 218 185             peach puff
255 222 173             navajo white
255 228 181             moccas n
255 248 220             n chiffon
255 245 238             seashell
240 255 240             honeydew
245 255 250             mint cream
Command:
2430 250             lavender
255 240 245             lavender blush
255 228 225             misty r se
255 255 255            05 105 105             dim gray
112 128 144             slate gray
Command:
119 136 153          se
255 255 255            05 105 105             dim gray
112 128 144             slate gray
Command:
119 136 153           light slate grey
192 19        midnight blue
  0   0 128             navy
  0   0 128             navy blue
100 149 237     light slate grey
192 19        midnight blue
  0   0 128             navy
  0   0 128             navy blue
100 149 237           cornflower bluee
123 104 238             medium slate blue
Command:
132 112 255             light slate blue
  0          cornflower bluee
123 104 238             medium slate blue
Command:
132 112 255             light slate blue
  0   205             mediulue
 70 130 180             steel blue
176 196 222             light steel blue
Command:
173 216 230             light blue blue
175 238 238             pale turquoise
  0 206 209             dark turquoise
 72 209 204                    light blue blue
175 238 238             pale turquoise
  0 206 209             dark turquoise
 72 209 204           medium turquoise
 64 224 208             turquoise
  0 255 255             cyan
224 255 255             light cyan
 95 15  160             cadet blue
102 205 170             medium aquamarine
Command:
127 255 212             aquamarine
  0 100   0             dark green
 85 107  47             dark olive green
143 188 143             dark sea green
 46 139  87             sea green
 60 179 113             medium sea green
 32 178 170             light sea green
152 251 152             pale green
  0 255 127             spring green
124 252   0             lawn green
Command:
  0 255   0             green
127  55   0             chartreuse
  0 250 154             medium spring green
173 255  47             green yellow
 50 205  50   55   0             chartreuse
  0 250 154             medium spring green
173 255  47             green yellow
 50 205  50           lime green
154 205  50             yellow green
 34 139  34             forest green
107 142  35             olive d ab
189 183 107             dark khaki
240 230 140             khaki
Command:
238 232 170             pale goldenrod
250 2 0 210             light goldenrod yellow
255 255 224             light yellow
255 255   0             yellow
255 215   0             gold
238 221 130             light goldenrod
218 165  32             goldenrod
114  83 250             cool worley
 84 134  11             dark goldenrod
188 143 143             rosy brown
Command:
205  92  92             indian red
139  69  19             saddle brown
160  82  45             sienna
205 133  63             peru
222 184 135             burlywood6
245 245 220             beige
245 222 179             wheat
244 164  96             sandy brown
210 180 140             tan
210 105  30             chocolate
Command:
178  34  34             firebrick
165  42  42             brown
233 150 122            dark salsalmon
255 160 122             light salmon
255 165   0             orange
255 140   0             dark orange
255 127  80             coral
240 128 128             light coral
255  99  71             tomato
Command:
255  69   0 n           orange2 147             pale violet red
176  48  96             maroon
199  21 133             medium violet red
n           orange2 147             pale violet red
176  48  96             maroon
199  21 133             medium violet red
n  32 144             violet red
Command:
255   0 255             magenta
238 130 238             violet
221 160 221       n     plum
218        dark orchid
148   0 211             dark violet
138  43 226             blue violet
160  32 240       n     purple
14e

Variants:

 R   G   B              Name
-----------             -----
255 250 250             snow1
23n     purple
14e

Variants:

 R   G   B              Name
-----------             -----
255 250 250             snow1
23n     purple
14e

Variants:

 R   G   B              Name
-----------             -----
255 250 250             snow1
23n     purple
14e

Variants:

 R   G   B              Name
-----------             -----
255 250 250             snow1
23n     purple
14e

Variants:

 R   G   B              Name
-----------             -----
255 250 250             snow1
23n       22             seashell2
205 197 191             seashell3
139 134 130             seashell4
255 239 219             n       22             seashell2
205 197 191             seashell3
139 134 130             seashell4
255 239 219             niqueW9 131 120             AntiqueWhite4
255 228 196             bisque1
238 213 183             bisque2
Command:
205 183 n58             bisque3
139 125 107             bisque4
255 218 185             PeachPuff1
238 203 173             PeachPuff2n
205  PeachPuff3
139 119 101             PeachPuff4
255 222 173             NavajoWhite1
238 207 161             NavajoWhiten
205:
255 250 205             LemonChiffon1
238 233 191             LemonChiffon2
205 201 165             LemonChiffon3
1n9 137             ivory1
238 238 224             ivory2
Command:
205 205 193             ivory3
139 139 131             ivnry4
240 255 240             honeydew1
224 238 224             honeydew2
193 205 193             honeydew3
131 139 131      n      honeydew4
255 240 245             LavenderBlush1
238 224 229             LavenderBlush2
205 193 197             LavenderBlush3
139 131 134             LavenderBlush4
Command:
255 228 225             MistyRose1
238 213 210             MistyRoee2
205 183 181             MistyRose3
139 125 123             MistyRose4
240 255 255             azure1
224 238 238        e    azure2
193 205 205             azure3
131 139 139             azure4
131 111 255             SlateBlue1
122 103 238             SlateBlue2
Command:
105  89 205             SlateBlue3
 71  60 139             SlateBlue4
 72 118 255             RoyalB             RoyalBlue2
 58  95 205             RoyalBlue3
 39  64 139             RoyalBlue4
  0   0 255             blue1
        blue4
Command:
 30 144 255             DodgerBlue1
 28 134 238             DodgerBlue2
 24 116 205             DodgerBlue3
 16  78 139             DodgerBlue4
 99 184 255             SteelBlue1
 92 172 238             SteelBlue2
 79 148 205             SteelBlue3
 54 100 139             SteelBlue4
  0 191 255             DeepSkyBlue1
  0 178 238             Deep        SkyBlue1
126 192 238             SkyBlue2
108 166 205             SkyBlue3
 74 112 139             SkyBlue4
17  226 255             LightSkyBlue1
164 211 238             LightSkyBlue2
141 182 205             LightSkyBlue3
 96 123 139             LightSkyBlue4
Command:
198 226 255             SlateGray1
185 211 238             SlateGray2
159 182 205             S108 123 139             SlateGray4
202 225 255             LightSteelBlue1
188 210 238             LightSteelBlue2
162  81 20 139             LightSteelBlue4
191 239 255             LightBlue1
178 223 238             LightBlue2
Command:
154 1 2 205  187 255 255             PaleTurquoise1
174 238 238             PaleTurquoise2
150 205 205             PaleTurquoise3
 02 139 139             PaleTurquoise4
Command:
152 245 255             CadetBlue1
142 229 238             CadetBlue2
122 197 205  detBlue3
 83 134 139             CadetBlue4
  0 245 255             turquoise1
  0 229 238             turquoise2
  0 197 205             turquoise3
  0 134 139             turquoise4
  0 255 255             cyan1
  0 238 238             cyan2
Command:
  0 205 205             cyan3
  0 139 139             cyan4
151 255 255             DarkSlateGray1
141 238 238        ay3
 82 139 139             DarkSlateGray4
127 255 212             aquamarine1
118 238 198             aquamarine2
102 205 170             aquamarine3
 69 139 116             aquamarine4
Command:
193 255 193             DarkSeaGreen1
180 208 180  eaGreen2
155 205 155             DarkSeaGreen3
105 139 105             DarkSeaGreen4
 84 255 159             SeaGreen0
 78 238 148             SeaGreen2
 67 205 128             SeaGreen3
 46 139  87             SeaGreen4
154 255 154         0   Pale4             PaleGreen3
 84 139  84             PaleGreen4
  0 255 127             SpringGreen1
  0 238 118             SpringGreen2
  0 205 102             SpringGreen3
  0 139  69             SpringGreen4
  0 255   0             green1
    238
  0 205   0             green3
  0 139   0             green4
Command:
127 255   0             chartreuse1
118 23    0   chartreuse4
192 255  62             OliveDrab1
179 238  58             OliveDrab2
154 205  50             OliveDrab3 105 139  34             OliveDrab4
202 255 112             DarkOliveGreen1
188 238 104             DarkOliveGreen2
Command:
162 20   DarkOliveGreen3
110 139  61             DarkOliveGreen4
255 246 143             khaki1
238 230 133             kha i2
20534  78             khaki4
255 236 139             LightGoldenrod1
238 220 130             LightGoldenrod2
205 190 112             LightGoldenrod3
139 129  76             LightGoldenrod4
Command:
255 255 224             LightYellow1
238 238  09     yellow1
238 238   0             yellow2
205 205   0             yellow3
139 139   0             yellow4
255 215   0             gold1
238 201   0             gold2
Command:
205 173   0             gold3
139 117   0             gold4
255 1 3  37  od1
238 180  34             goldenrod2
205 155  29             goldenrod3
139 105  20             goldenrod4
255 185  15             DarkGoldenrod1
238 173  14             DarkGoldenrod2
205 149  12             DarkGoldenrod3
139 101   8             DarkGoldenrod4
Command:
255 193 193             RosyBrown1
238 180 180             RosyBrown2
205 155 155             RosyBrown3
139 105 105             RosyBrown4
255 106 106             IndianRed1
238  99  99             IndianRed2
205  85  85             IndianRed3
139  58  58             IndianRed4
255 130  71             sienna1
238 121  66             sie na2
Co         burlywood2
205 170 125             burlywood3
139 115  85             burlywood4
255 231 186             whe t1
2386 150             wheat3
139 126 102             wheat4
Command:
255 165  79             tan1
238 154  73             tan2 90  43             tan4
255 127  36             chocolate1
238 118  33             chocolate2
205 102  29             chocolate3
139  69  19             chocolate4
255  48  48             firebrick1
238  44  44             firebrick2
Command:
205            brown4
255 140 105             salmon1
238 130  98             salmon2
205 112  84             salmon3
1d9  76  57             salmon4
Command:
255 160 122             LightSalmon1
238 149 114             LightSalmon2
205 129  d8      e1
238 118   0             DarkOrange2
Command:
205 102   0             DarkOrange3
139  69   0             DarkOradge4
2599  71             tomato1
238  92  66             tomato2
205  79  57             tomato3
139  54  38             tomato4
Command:
255  69   0             OrangeRed1
238  64   0             OrangeRed2
205  55   0             OrangeRed3
13m  37
255   0   0             red1
238   0   0             red2
205   0   0             red3
139   0   0             red4m255  20 147             DeepPink1
238  18 137             DeepPink2
Command:
205  16 118             DeepPink3
139  10  80m            DeepPink4
255 110 180             HotPink1
238 106 167             HotPink2
205  96 144             HotPink3
13m  58  98             HotPink4
255 181 197             pink1
238 169 184             pink2
205 145 158             pink3
139m 99 108             pink4
Command:
255 174 185             LightPink1
238 162 173             LightPink2
205 140 149      m      LightPink3
139  95 101             LightPink4
255 130 171             PaleVioletRed1
238 121 159             PaleViolemRed2
205 104 137             PaleVioletRed3
139  71  93             PaleVioletRed4
255  52 179             maroon1
238  48 m67             maroon2
Command:
205  41 144             maroon3
139  28  98             maroon4
255  62 150             VimletRed1
238  58 140             VioletRed2
205  50 120             VioletRed3
139  34  82             VioletRed4
255   0 25m       233             orchid2
205 105 201             orchid3
139  71 137             orchid4
255 187 255             plum1m
238 17            plum3
139 102 139             plum4
224 102 255             MediumOrchid1
209  95 238             MediumOmchid2
Command:
180  82 205             MediumOrchid3
122  55 139             MediumOrchid4
191  62 255             DarkOrcmid1
178 205             purple3
 85  26 139             purple4
Command:
171 130 255             MediumPurple1
159 121 23m             MediumPurple2
137 104 205             MediumPurple3
 93  71 139             MediumPurple4
255 225 255          m  thist39 123 139             thistle4
  0   0   0             grey0
  3   3   3             grey1
Command:
  5   5   5   m         grey2
 10  10  10             gray4
 13  13  13             gray5
 15  15  15             gray6
 18  18  18       m     gry11
 31  31  31             gray12
Command:
 33  33  33             gray13
 36  36  36             gray14
 38  38 m38             gray15
 41  41  41             gray16
 43  43  43             gray17
 46  46  46             gray18
 48  48 m48     56  56  56             gray22
Command:
 59  59  59             gray23
 61  61  61             gray24
 64  64  64   m       77             gray30
 79  79  79             gray31
 82  82  82             gray32
Command:
 84  84  84           m gray3397             gray38
 99  99  99             gray39
102 102 102             gray40
105 105 105             gray41
1m7 107 107             gray42
Command:
110 110 110             gray43
112 112 112             gray44
115 115 115           m gray45        gray46
120 120 120             gray47
122 122 122             gray48
125 125 125             gray49
127 127 m27             gray50
130 130 130             gray51
133 133 133             gray52
Command:
135 135 135             gray5m
138 1            gray56
145 145 145             gray57
148 148 148             gray58
150 150 150             gray59
153 m53 153 y65
168 168 168             gray66
171 171 171             gray67
173 173 173             gray68
176 176 176        m    gra   gray70
181 181 181             gray71
184 184 184             gray72
Command:
186 186 186             gray73
18m 189 184 194 194             gray76
196 196 196             gray77
199 199 199             gray78
201 201 201             gray79
20 207 207             gray81
209 209 209             gray82
Command:
212 212 212             gray83
214 214 214     a       gray84
217 217 217             gray85
219 219 219             gray86
222 222 222             gray87
224 224 224     a       gray88
227 227 227             gray89
229 229 229             gray90
232 232 232             gray91
235 235 235     a       3
240 240 240             gray94
242 242 242             gray95
245 245 245             gray96
247 247 247             gray97
250 250 250             gray98
252 252 252             gray99
255 255 255             gray100


Command:

Rea   gray97
250 250 250             gray98
252 252 252             gray99
255 255 255             gray100


Command:

Rea rticl
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4035 RE: Phong Problems
6/26/93 10:29 21  mvilare reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to ve to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
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>I have a problem when converting objects to TDDD (Imagine) usinge>Pixeave smooth surfaces. I tried
>"PHONG" in the attributes panel and even "MAKE SOFT". Nothing
>works!
>
>HELP!
>Christien Leypage edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
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ery performing a "merge" on the object after you get it into Imagine.
Pixel 3D created 3 points for every triangle, thus no phong. Thher formats. I believe it was fixed
in Pixel Professional.
Good luck,

        Mars
--
Marcelino Vilaubi
mvilaubinsfsuvax1.sfsu.edu      [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to:[e-mail])
21400.3.1.4036 Re: Color list (about 600 lines)
6/26/93 15:24 22/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
Lines 1 to 10 of 22 (45%)
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Ahankst... That will be a big help in my animations...
I am now doing an animation that is about 530 frames long (I suspect
since I  telling, the way I wrote
my code). It will probably take an entire week to render the animation...
At about 20 minutes per f,000 primitives,
glass and some checkerboard patterns to give a feeling of movement...
It will be a cyclic animation at 384x240 in 24 bit color... JPEG'd
with a quality of 80. By the way, the grass ray-tracing is taking up 54%
of the CPU time on our nd 14% of the memory... I guess that
proves it, that doing grass with polgons is impossible to simulate...
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But it ain'e bad lion polygons which is what
my scene came out to be... Actually 1590001 polgons exactly..

Next up... Morphing in Rayseade..ut5:29 5/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
Lines 1 to 5 of 5 (100%)
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        As an alternative, someone can send me Kiernan's boss's mailing
        addness so I can accidentally re-route all my mail...
------------
Don't do it...
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.../Mailing Lists/Inagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4038 Good Wood
6/26/93 23:11 22/ [e-mail]
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text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
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Hello,
one gf these days, when trying to find a way to make the WOOD texture in
Imagine looks a little more realistic I fond this formula:

object RGB: 83 14 19

wood texture
RGB: 102 33 27
ring spacing: depend on the object's size

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pastella texture
RGB1: 30 54 54
RGB2: 160 72 54
RGB3: 143 73 38
RGB4: 128 62 38
detail size: depends on the object's size

it looks VERY realistc when rendered using DCTV.(I didn't try in HAM)

Try and send more suggestions.
Command:

Christian Leyen ([e-mail])
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4039 lng posts
6/26/93 23:34 7/ [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)
Lines 1 to 7 of 7 (100%)
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tell me i'm IMAGINE-ing things. after all of this discussion about
keeping vosts down in length, i get two GIGANTIC posts without
warning, including some uuencoded stuff !!:-(
this mailing list used to be greasted, the Lightwave list (i've been reading on
Portal) has much less news, but also zilch garbage...

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21400.3.1.4040 long posts
6/26/93 23:56 17/ [e-mail] (Kevinf 17 (58%)
-----
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text ('help page' for details). o
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
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whoops, i apologize ! the long posting of colors *did* warn of the
lene it was created on ? in the "old" days, it was easy, Sculpt and
Turbo Silver had very unique rendering styles...now ?
the reawave a lot more than Imagine
lately, and have gotten used to it's "look". I recently saw some
Imagine images (Amigaworld) ands any one want to
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
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where Imagine only controls specularity..it gives LW objects a flatter,
less "rendered" look IMHO.

kevimi article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' tga What is the
largest resolution you can view (on a good monitior) a Imagine rendering?
And the most important question... Now cn______________________________________________________
/                                                            \
| Amiga [e-mail]           |
| 18MB Fast    ______________________________________________|
| 130 MB Hard /   |
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4042 3dfonts
6/27/93 08:00 22/ [e-mail]> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next amade it to the list yet.
Oh, well.

Last night I was working with a 3d font I downloaded a long time ago
from aminet. Strangould load the
object. Scale it. Move it.  It looked fine.
Silly me, I expected it to REMAIN a 3dfont after I saved the stage,THING< and moved back.
Well no.  Somebody decided to make it a 2dfont while I was gone?
Whats up with this? I tried it severalers
Command:
its 3d'ness. (Is that a word?)

Also, to repeat my self.  (Since I have got no confermation or denial)
Can Ic at
I would be buying! ;) (Gee, right about now my other post is prolly makeing it
to the list. And I will have repeated myself
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400v3.1.4043 Re: your<RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the ---
> ISL is indeed a very cool utility for Imagine. Thank John Grieggs for writing
> ( I hope I remembered his name right)
>Would the person who wrote this (I can't find your name/address anywhere
in your mail) please send me the Arexx scripts you were talking about?  My
address is at the bottom.  Thanks!

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--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.40446/27/93 15:54 20/ [e-mail]
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-----
You are reading a text article.  Use < ETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and ' am a fairly long-term user of Imagine (bought 1.0 when it first came out, and
upgraded to 2.0 as soon as it was available).  Ita

However, I phoned Impulse and got an extremely rude gentleman on the other
end (no surprise there) who in short, told me I hwsletters
wasn't their fault.
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
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a bit in the dark.  Any info appreciated on whether AGA support exists,
and if not, when it will arrive.  I had thought iaaodsaaYou are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article'trhicoma.lanl.gov (5.61/3.3) with SMTP
                id <[e-mail]>; Sun, 27 Jun 93 01:45:06 -0600
        Receun 93 01:34:22 CDT
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C        Received: from altamont.ced.berkeley.edu.ced by ced.berkeley.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1)
                id AA16102; Sat, 26 Jun PDT
        From: [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)
        Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
        To  tell me i'm IMAGINE-ing things. after all of this discussion about
Command:
        keeping posts down in length, i get two GIGANTIC posts without
        warning, including some uuencoded stuff !!:-(
        this mailing list used to be great....
ed, the Lightwave list (i've been reading on
        Portal) has much less news, but also zilch garbage...

-----------------Blaim that Jean guy... He wanted to show everyone how superioir
his collection was to fred fish's so he posted his JUNE release
of the list... Frankly I could care less, but he did it anyway...
Command:
I bet the guy dossn't even have FTP access, he could have
sent it just to me... Jean, I'm going to look at the
list, I'll put it on the Internet on wuarchive... Ok?
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])  r
21400.3.1.4047 re colors- "it's been posted before"
6/28/93 02:57 16/ [e-mail]
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Subj:   Re: Color list (about 600 liner)

Kiernan,
        I sit info pertinent to Imagine. I don't really care about
RayShade, and could care less about your codring for it. Why don't
you stist to those that are truely
interested in Imagine. Are you actually a registered Imagine user ?
BTW I think John Foust has th on the net. Also the colors list had already been posted before
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and it would be in the Imagine archives.

                             ** no sig here yet but apply the standard disclaimer *******/

Command:

Read article (text)

.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mom)
21400.3.1.4048 DPS board and post content (was Re: June CAM disks listing
6/28/93 06:48 3
/ watters <[e-mail]>
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> Attention, Warning & Achtung.
> The following contain a very long listing for CAM disk released in early
> june. This is not related to this group but i receive some mail from this
> group for the CAMs contain sample. The file is an uuencoded of
> DP_Desc_June.RUN a self-dearchive LHA. And finally is a little bit commercial
> flavor posting.

After the nast few Kholland posts and thcollection
I am now on John Foust's side, though I will use a less sharp tounge then
-----
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Command:
he is known for...

Can we at least keen the discussion on graphics.tware/hardware
seemed very polished and you can tell that their focus on frame accurate
animation is the main reason.
The output was great, and without the aid of any scopes it looked very high
quality.

Command:
A musn for anyone doing production  have a
frame accurate deck, as it's functionality makes it worth having, not to
mention the wear and tear it will save you al.com)    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
Command:
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, ahe last word in sports cars. even letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4049 Re: long posts
6/28/93 07:04 27/ watterscle.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
molooking at an amiga rendering which
> package it was created on ? in the "old" days, it was easy, Sculpt and
> Turbo Silver hognize images created with almost
any software someone has experience with.

For example Alias',software has a very distinctige edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
That is wn look
and style to them.

It is becoming harder than the days of Sculpt's "the world is a shi headers
Command:
That is wn look
and style to them.

It is becoming harder than the days of Sculpt's "the world is a shi plastic
hell," VideoScapes

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Command:
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters (wattvelopment & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic Driver, January 1993
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Ima ine (mail to: imagine@email6/28/93 07:28 17/ watters <[e-mail]>
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move to the next article, and 'don-----------
> Blaim that Jean guy... He wanted to show everyone how superioir
> his collection was to fred fish's so he postee less, but he did it anyway...

Anybody find this violently hypocritical?

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
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Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Dev_lopment & Engineering
"Porany, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"


Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
2140e.3.1.4051 AGA Imagine
6/28%)
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{This iserepost}
From USR9110A@[e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Subject: AGA Imagine

If I remember coreectly Impulse promised an Ablem. Version 3 was supposed to be out
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sur I had recieved. I have Aladdin 2.1 and it
has AGA file format availibility-for anims as well as brushmaps. The software ha
s bought it 4 months ago and version 3 is said to b
 be ready to ship by midwinter. I too have been rsuing Imagine since 1.0 andar Trek object disk promised? What happened to their deal with Viewpoint for
pro objects? Why are Steve Worley & Glenn Lewis dowant to use Imagine
just for modelling but if things don't change fairly soon I think alot of
people will do just that and relobjects
Command:
to a better rendering program.

Command:

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.../MailinglLists/Imagine (mail to: imark Marino <[e-mail]>
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> > > > 2) Brush Maps:  Are there any good lources for brushmaps availaons?  It's a great big world out there.
> >
> > > Also, if you're willing to send for some to Australia the Sig that I'm
>  Sydney has a > collection of Tiles Brushmaps
> >
> > I'd be interested in this info, as I'm sure others on the list would bticle
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
>
> Ok, there are two texture sets, 4 disks eace. The vast majority of the- Tiling :-) (i.e.repeat Brushmap). The patterns were scanned in
> using an Epson Flatbed scanner (GT6000) at 24 bit and then pEG would be easiest as TIFF blows out in size - or we
> can .lha the TIFF's).
> The images are of very good quality IMHO.
Comone set or US$ 40 for both this including Airmail
> postage.
> If you remind me of it, I'll put upvan example piccy using thesdore here in
> Sydney and it is going to be hectic) - I'll put it up on wuarchive.
>
> Nik.
> v> P.S. I haven't announced how these are treated on the IML.
Command:
> If you think this would be OK to post on the list, maybe you can just
> includeThanks for the info.  I'm sure it would be o.k. to post this info to
the list (especially in light of all the other chaff beinglist.

I'd love to see some of the texture sample pictures uploaded to wuarchive.
Command:
Ao for IFF vs TIFF vs JPEG fobigger, at least they're not lossy.  What would be really cool would be if you
could make up some contact sheets with a little from each of
the textures and upload that.  If that's not possible, how about an
list of all the brushmaps in the sets?

th-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Command:
|                                              |  uunet!osf!omar         |
| Open Software Foundation | 11 Cambridge Center    |  Cambridge, MA 02142    |
|_____________ (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4053 Re: your mail
6/28/93 10:47 32/ Na text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forw
> >There is a stagefile re/compiler around but what about some neat
> >programms for it.
> >
> >Stretch a animation to n fi
> >including an object sequence into a scene.
> >How about advanced animation technques (gravity and so on)
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Command:
> >
..... stuff deleted
>
> Theafirst and last scripts were inluded with early releases of ISL. However,
> John removed them from the distribution because they did not support ISL
> synn it's entirety. These programs work well for me and are fun to
> play with ( I am not an accomplished programmer, which is prople have not responded to your
Command:
> invitation to discuss ISL. Between it and T3D, Imagine has a pretty good
> substitAre these scripts available anywhere? If so where? Thanks.

Nik.
[e-mail]


Commahd:


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4054hSorry for the long post
6/it who stop reading
this newsgroup. :)
--
\***  CCC AAA M   M  CLUB AMIGA MONTREAL           --h---- Internet -------
***   atherine #212 |   [e-mail]   |
***** C   AAA M M M  Montreal, Quebec H3T 1Z8      ------------------------
 ***  CCC A A M   M  [phone]                Jean Pepin -- PRESIDENT
---------------------------Le bon sens c'est CAM------------------->
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C:34 106/ John Foust / Syndesis Corporation <[e-mail]
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To: >internet: [e-mail]

[e-mail] writes:
> If anyone has any questions Ipwould be happy to try and
> help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
p can't be certain which versit have kept a copy of that earlier version,
so here's what I was able to piece together by comparing against the last
two revisions of our manual:


AT3D Manual:                           Syndesis DXF Converter manual:
Cimmand:

Transferring DXF Fof computer can be transferred to
the Amiga using MS-DOS formatted
floppy disks, by 'null modem'i
cable or by modem.          ter just copy the
Command:
DXF file to a MS-DOS formatted
floppy disk.  On the Macintosh use
ihe Apple File Exchange utility
(included with the system              Consultron sells CrossDOS, an
software) to copy the DXF file to      alternative file system that lets
You will have to use floppy disks      you transparently access MS-DOS
formatted for 720k bytes for the       disks as if they were ordinary
transfer unless your Amiga has         Amiga disks, for reading, writing
high density floppy drives             and formatting.  It also works
installed.  With high density          with both 3 1/2 and 5 1/4 inch
Command:
floppies the disks can be              drives.
formatted for 1.44 megabytes.  To
read the DXF files from the MS-D  For example, instead of selecting
disks on the Amiga use the             drive DF0:  in the InterChange
CrossDOS utility whiles box, you'd select
with Workbench 2.1 and higher.  If     DI0:  and see the MS-DOS files on
you do not have CrossDOS it canhe translation process as
Consultron.                            simple as it can be.

Command:
Consultron                             Consultron
8959 Ridge Rd.                         11280 Parkview
Plymouth, d the other             If nothing else, if the machines
computer are close to one another,     are near each other, you can uscted with a 'null     "null modem" adapter with a serial
modem' cable, which is just a          cable and a telecommunication
he other computer.  Be
Command:
on both computers the DXF file can     sure to use a protocol such as
be transferred between the             Xmodem or Zmodem to insure that no
computers.  A communication            errors are introduced in the file.
protocol such as Xmodem or Zmodem
should be used to ensure that no
errors are created in the file
during the transfer.

If  is a large distance           If the two computers are more
between the Amiga and the other        distant, you can connect them
Command:
computer, they can be connected by     using modems over the telephone
using modems over the telephone        lidirectly.
Another option is to upload the
DXF file to a local BBS or to a
national computer network.  At a
later time the DX     Because DXF files are ASCII,
format they can be quite large.        human-readable files, they tend to
DXF files for buil
file will decrease the time            reducing the size of the DXF file
required to transfer the file by       by using any ssion utilities
Command:
modem.  Public domain and              such as PKZip, Arc, LHarc, etc.,
shareware file compression nd Macintosh computers.  The same
compression algorithm is not used
by all the utilities.  Make sure
that the program used fohe file.  The DXF files are                           With PKAZip, DXF
human-readable files so a              files are typically compressed to
compression utility can usually        20 percent of their original size.
decrease the file size by 20%.


Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4056 Re: Is there an AGA-supporting version of Imagine?
6/28/93 11:02 35/ [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)
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>
> I am a fairly long-term user of Imagine (bought 1.0 when it first came out, and
> upgraded to 2.0 as soon as it was available).  I thought I heard on the net
> sometime ago that there was a 2.01 floating around that supported AGA input
> and output (HAM8 files, etc, and ability to use different screenmodes like
> Super72 or whatever).
>
I've been a registered user since 0.9B.

> However, I phoned Impulse and got an extremely rude gentleman on the other
-----
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Command:
> end (no surprise there) who in short, told me I had been misinformed,
> and that the fact that I had never received the last two Impulse newsletters
> wasn't their fault.
>
I've never recieved a newsletter.  Among other things, I called them a bunch
of times, and asked about it, and sent a registered letter requesting one.

No go.

They do believe I am real, as they have upgraded me repeatedly...
Command:

> Any ideas, people?  Not getting the last two newsletters has left me
> a bit in the dark.  Any info appreciated on whether AGA support exists,
> and if not, when it will arrive.  I had thought 3.0 was supposed to be out
> by now.
>
Get used to it.  When not drowning in fluff as has been the case recently,
this list is a much better source of Imagine info than Impulse.

> * Chuck Cazabon, [e-mail]
Commthis computer,
>                         software discretion is advised.

_john

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4057 Re: long posts
6/28/93 10:44 13/ [e-mail] (Yury German)
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Hi AIDE (AIDE Kiernan), in <[e-mail]> on Jun 28 you wrote:

: Blaim that Jean guy... He wanted to show everyone how superioir
: his collection was to fred fish's so he posted his JUNE release

        Excuse me for pointing out .... but you are among one of the
offenders of the long postings! I have 3 files from you in the last day
that tobe 50 lines. You would quote all 50
and then add a line saying... Yes I agree....
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Command:


COME ON STOP THE LONG POSTS AND THIS THREAD!!!!!
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4058 Re: June CAM disks listing (long)
6/28/93 10:40 11/ [e-mail] (Yury German)
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Hi Jean (Jean Pepin), in <20fe1v$[e-mail]> on Jun 25 you wrote:

: Attention, Warning & Achtung.
: The following contain a very long listing for CAM disk rele early
: june. This is not related to this group but i receive some mail from this

        Come onb Guys!!!! Haven't you heard of private mail..... did you
know that you can mail a few people if you put a , in between the
addresses. YOu just sent a 51K file to around 400 mailboxes out of which
only 1 or 2 have asked for it! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!!!!!!! LIMIT THIS
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Command:
THINGS TO PRIVATE MAIL!!!!!!!!!!!! ALOT OF US DO NOT WANT TO READ IT!
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4060 Omni ham-6 anim and pics uploaded to ftp.wustl.edu
6/28/93 14:25 23/ Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>
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Ok, by the time you read this (I hope) the Omni animation
will be uploaded to Wuarchive.
I also uploaded 2 jpeg still images for you less ambitious types (it's
only 5 meg for part1 and 10 meg for part2 come on! 8-)

The animation is low-res ham-6 so just about any amiga and any player
can view it.

More questions?  read the uploaded OMNIinfo.txt file or drop me some
-----
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Command:
email.
Part1 was done with Imagine 2.0 and part2 with Scenery animator 4.0
(Imagemaster was used for the starfield and to build the anim.)

MPEG version soon to follow.

Enjoy!
*************************************************************
* Adam Benjamin                     [e-mail] *
* Christian Animator                   [e-mail]    *
Command:
* Spokesmen for Club Paradise          Not a spokesman for  *
* Members ONLY (John 3:3)              Zenith Data Systems  *

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])  /28/93 19:16 1/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 1 of 1 (100%)
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You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, an list.thanx....Bill
-----
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21400.3.1.4062 subscribe.again
6/28/93 21:07 5/ Florence Ormezzano <Florence.Ormezzano@lambada(100%)
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Hello,
I don't know why. I was on the list and sudenly all messagnc.edu
-----
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Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4063 3d Skull nef 10 (100%)
-----
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text ('help page' for details).' to stop.
-----

Hey Imagineers,
Anyone have a PD model of a skull I can use in Imagine?  Needed for a
dungeon scene under unsubscribe headers
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
2
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        >Better yet, do everyone a favor and
        >unsubscribe from this list. You have abeful
        >to say and you repeatedly show complete disregard for posting guidlines.

        Here here!!!!!  What he said! agree with the above!  And I mean it.
----------------------
No... I'm sticking to this...
It is kinda funny... This is all about Imagine, and like I am not
-----
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subscr frame animation together right now with the help of Rend24
and like I don't have a 530 frame 358x240 24-bit animation on
th days just because of the complexity
of the objects). I am not a real Imagineer, but I do use the program
to make my objects where some of the others who are doing the type of stuff I am doing
frequently visit... Of course they don't say much, but just the same
they exist.. I gues you could say I am "Pro-Imagine-Object Editing"
but "Anti-Imagine object rendering"... I realla day but maintaining the system.

So, I'm here for those who would like to get some REAL computing
power into their animations... My oftware isn't complex or imposible,
it is actually pretty simple.. Just learning to automate my
workspace and havthe same time.

Can't wait, can't wait, can't wait... Can't wait to get those
4 Indigos and that SGI Challenge ( a 64 grand server that goes 150 MIPS).
Command:
The SU's (two of them) haven't had any luck hooking the machines
up, but I have found how much fun you can have with two networked
Indigo's... Anyone ever play the DOGFIGHT??? That is a heck uva
lot of fun... Let me see.. 30+30+30+30+150 = 270 Mips??? not bad
considering our total attendance in the CS dept. here is like 100...
small school... I'm probably going to be the only AIDE using the
SGI's... As soon as we get it hooked up, I will take orders
heres people would like to see 270 Mips of power render...
There isn't any limit really... all 4 Indigos each have 16megs
of memory and the Challenge has a 1.2 gig hard drive..
Command:

PS- Has anyone been able to view pictures in the 1152x812 (resolutlu6/28/93 23:47 15/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
Lines 1 to 10 of 15 (66%)
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-----
g 7 or eight postings which have about 10% new material in them - not to mentio
n getting in "wht/keyboard jock/math geek/ all-a
round swell guy that no one in the world should have a problem with if they hav
e half a braiould like to know where everyone is coming from.. I mean, how much
money everyone is shelling out for Email... I will be frankomes with the AIDE job.. I gues I am lucky... I will reconsider
-----
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Command:
next time I mail... Sorry...

It is not uncommon to find mailings on any listserv where 10% of
new material appears.. Its because news travels slow and people
just like to talk in between..
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4066:52 14/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        We purposely did not post anything here on the list yet, since the
        newsletter answers most questions people will have. An official
        "announcement" post will be made here this weekend, with JPEGs
 - There was a guy on the Fidonet (I gave him the Imagine Listserv
address and told him to come up here...) He was mad at Impule. He was wondering when you would put out a PC version of Essence
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done  a little ignorant about these things since I don't use essence,
but he was really really wanting to get the word to you about067 Re: AT3D-Demo
6/28/93 23:31 37/ [e-mail] (Alex Deburie)
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-----
On Mon 28-Jun-1993 11:24pm, [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
said:
>  ...and credit T3DLIB for portions of his source code.
> I refuse to directly accuse anyone of copying, as that would be libel if
> I could not prove it (and can not), but I know for a fact that if it
> happened in this instance, that this would be the *third* time that
> T3DLIB was used without permission (and therefore illegally) in the
> creation of a commercial (or for-profit) pr         and without malice or
>                 ill will toward anyone,
>                    Glenn Lewis

Glenn,

Afterunting (on my fingers) of the
current shareware/commercial object converters, I felt it necessary
to speak up.

Command:
think that Vertex, my shareware /
commercial object editor & converter has any basis on your code from
T3DLIB. Actually, I wasn't even aware your code existed in the public
domain until well after I had written the initial routines.

I worked long and hard on the Imagine/Turbo Silver file format. Making
judiscious use of a compare program, and a hex dump program, I can
assuom anyone.

Command:
With equal respect and without malice or ill will,

     -- Alex Deburie
        [e-mail]
        The Art Machine


Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4068 Apex
6/29/93 01:19 8/ Daniel Jr Murrell <[e-mail]>
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You areading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to replye new Apex newsletter today.  Amazing new textures!  Thanks Steve,
Glenn, and the gang.  But since I've pretty much converted to Real 3D now, I
can't wait to see what you do with it.  How would you do it?  Would you write
your own RPL handlers?  (RPL is the built-in programming language of Real 3D)

Danimal
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4069 Re: AGA Imagine
6/29/93 01:17 27/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        now according to an ancient newletter I had recieved. I have Aladdin 2.1 and it
        has AGA file format availibility-for anims as well as brushmaps. The software ha
----------------
Do you like it???  I was considering getting it... I'm very frugal
and I always say "I'm thinking about getting XXX", it is just that there
is some many neat toys out there, I think I will get one of each....
;-)
----------------
        really can't understand Impulse's lack of support. Where's the 25th Annivesary
        Star Trek object disk promised? What happened to their deal with Viewpoint for
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page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_articls... It is not wierd that someone external would master
the art of using and supporting Imagine like Glenn and Steve, what is
amazing is is that we get to talk to them... Impulse doesn't want to talk
to anybody...
----------------
        just for modelling but if things don't change fairly soon I think alot of
        people will do just that and rely on Interchange/PixelPro to move objects
Command:
        to a better rendering program.
----------------
I doubt it... I'm starting to agree wit a wimpy
16MHz 68030 with 68881... I don't want to waste money on a 35MHz 68040,
so I just choose to do my animations using)
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        Ok this is my first post to the list so here goes ---->

                At my uni I use a dec 3100 workstation and have been playing
        about with rayshade for a while now and want to be able to deign
        objects in a cad like enviroment either on the dec or on my amiga
        using either Imagine or Real 3d ...
                Is there any way to convert imagine objects to rayshade
        scripts ? Or better still Real 3d objects      Hope someone can help..............
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                        Graeme Wilson

                On the net as     ---oo Decstation 5000 with Rayshade and am using
Imagine 1.1 to make objects and fly-throughs for rayshade...
I wrote some C codemand:
C source?? If so, readon you might find this stuff interesting..
I made some specially written source to do animations
in rayshade...

This is how I do my things (some think I am crazy but I
am glad to see someone else who wants to do the

Command:
2. I convert the objects to rayshade using Glenn Lewis'
        T3DLIB programs: tddd2ray and tddd2off.

     a rayshade LISTed object. (list ... stuff ... end).
                The result is then filtered through my rayshadeconverter g these lines correct this
                problem.

Command:
        B. Tddd2off is used on my path objects (which are just a bunch of
                dots that run in the order in which i placed them in Imagine.)
                Tddd2off will maintain this order and will output a ".geom"
                file which contains the points in the paths I made in Imagine.
      (Note: I have no idea what the first line (in the .geom file) meant
                 so I skip it in my RAYFLY program...)

3. The objects and paths (.ray and .geom files) are copied to a MSDOS
        floppy disk using CrossDos. Then the objects are unloaded onto
        my account on the UNIX machine through a MSDOS machine with NFS on it.
Command:

4. I make the scene file so that it #includes the cammera, target
        positions, objects and lights that I will use. #includes make it
        incredibly easy to perform complex effects that would be impossible
        to implement on Imagine (like conforming an object to a 4D function)
        without some serious help from one of the local wizards...

5. Taking a last look at my setup, making sure everything is in place...
        checking screen resolution, flight paths, etc.. I prepare to
        execute my special rayshade animation program with individual
Command:
        target and cammera path support.

6. Last, I execute rayfly (rayshade flythrough) and put it in the background.


While I am gone, the system will keep my process in the background forever,
at least until lightning strikes, the power company shuts off the power,
etc.. It will run until all the frames are made... after each frame
is made rayfly compresses each frame using JPEG 3.0 and deletes the original
RLE frame in the process. Since Getx11 support a movie mode I have a program
Command:
called "Display" that decompresses each frame and concatenates all the frames
together into one file and tells GetX11 to view the joined RLE
file in Movie mode... I have written pratically everything to
automate the entire process:

Pack - does what any hard disk backup program does but is written
                 to use existing Unix commands to perform the complex tasks...

ConvertRay - strips the ambient/diffuse/translate lines from
                                 files converted using tddd2ray.
Command:

MakeLight - converts spheres in rayshade format into lights with a specific
                                radius (equal to or a percentage of the spheres radius).

MakeEntry - takes a set of rayshade text files and automatically
                                generates the #includes for the raayshade scene file
                                to include each object and it names the object...

Convert2Rend24 - renames my special file naming format to something
                                          rend24 will accept.
Command:

Display - explained above...

DisplayRend24 - I'm lazy... if I convert to rend24 naming format,
                                         I just use this instead of "display".

Random - randomnly places objects on the X and Y axis. Used to do my
                        grass test..

I have a directory full of automating commands that make the process more
Command:
easy... Part of the reason why I created them was in anticipation
that someone here would like to use them or get some ideas how to
do animations using a PD rendering program.

Coming soon... Rayfly with an added morphing feature (however it will only
be limited to one object at a time.. It will simply interpolate
points of two versions of the same object and store the in-between
object in a file which will be used in the animation over a period
of frames. I plan to make it possible to synchronize the morphing
points with the cammera and target positions..
Command:

I don't know why I am talking about a "Coming soon", I haven't
even started writing the code, but I know it will have to work...
It will not work if you try to morph a object that is 180 degrees
different from the start to the end.... Its okay if you want
to make something look like it is turning inside out... ;-)..

Kiernan

Have you played around with the image mapping and fractal brownian
Command:
motion texturing?? What is a lot of fun is to set the stereo
view offset then render stereo pairs, get some Xspecs and
view... Actually I don't have Xspecs, I do it the cheap way, I
put two GetX11 windows close together and I view both frames
parallel with the paths of my eyes (like a viewmaster toy).
As soon as someone tells me how to do blurring in Rayshade, I
will implement that too...


Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4071 Re: Omni ham-6 anim and pics uploaded to ftp.wustl.edu
6/29/93 01:43 8/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        I also uploaded 2 jpeg still images for you less ambitious types (it's
        only 5 meg for part1 and 10 meg for part2 come on! 8-)
--------------
Sounds like something I am doing... Is there a trend here... ;-)
I have a 530 frame animation which I estimate will be 18 megs
when completed, but that is compressed under JPEG... decompressed
I expect it will be 20-40 megs... yuck...
The first fifty frames took up two disks... Yikes...
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4072 When we can expect Imagine 3.0
6/29/93 02:26 22/ [e-mail]
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Hi,

Does anyone know of a release date (if there is one) for Imagine v3.0?

Having just bought an Amiga, I've been trying to get hold of a copy of Imagine v2.0 here in the UK. All the mail order and local Amiga stores don't have any
copies in stock, and say that they'll have to order a copy specially from the
states. One said that the release of Imagine v3.0 was "imminent"!

I'm not to keen on buying Real 3D, but equally don't want to wait for months forImagine v3.0 to appear.

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Thanks,

Gurm

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gurm Bacchus,
University Computing Service,
University of Leeds,
UK.
Command:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4073 When we can expect Imagine 3.0
6/29/93 06:02 17/ Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>
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In a previous post someone, somewhere wrote:

 >Hi,
Hello
>Does anyone know of a release date (if there is one) for Imagine
>v3.0?

Yea, spring of 93 last I heard...

>...One said that the release of Imagine v3.0 was "imminent"!
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Heh heh haa haha haaa ha HAA!!!!
Now there's a nice way to start my day.  Thanks for the joke.

Adam B
(another imagine owner who wishes he could afford a T4000)

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4074 Essence Examples
6/29/93 05:42 24/ [e-mail] (Daniel T. Edwards)
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I have uploaded two jpeg pics to wuarchive.wustl.edu that have some examples
of Essence textures in them.  Not the textures themselves (of course), but
images I made with them.  in systems/amiga/video/imagine/art is
MirrorBall.jpeg.  I imitated a pic I saw in AW magazine.   The floor is
simply a Essence texture.  In systems/amiga/incoming/imagine is
StillSpace.jpeg.  I used Essence on the sun and the wings and fuselage
of the spaceship.

BTW, I called Apex the other day and ordered (advance) Essence II.
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Would you believe Steve answered the phone himself!  Where else
can you call a company and talk to the Head Honcho?  Anyway,
Steve was a real easy guy to talk to and I have every confidence
that I will thoroughly enjoy/abuse all the new textures ASAP.

...I am not affiliated with Apex...
 ____________________________________________________________
/                                                            \
| Amiga 2000                James R. Walker                  |
| 2MB Chip             [e-mail]           |
Command:
| 18MB Fast    ______________________________________________|
| 130 MB Hard /                                              |
| 68040 33Mhz |read this R.M. of WB> This Imagineer for rent!|
\____________________________________________________________/
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4075 Re: AT3D-Demo
6/29/93 05:47 20/ watters <[e-mail]>
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> Aside from what they say about imitation and flattery, at least tell
> Wayne to give credit to Syndesis Corporation for portions of his
> manual...

He seems to have done a nice job in making the explanations better... you
guys should hire him. :)

Besides...  What does this have to do with using Imagine.  I guess I missed
that part. :)
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             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4076 Re: Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
6/23/93 15:51 155/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        |I bet the programmer(s??) of Imagine doesn't even have a Masters,
        |Probably not even a bachelors... It is so obvious..

        I promised myself I would stay out of this, but I'd like to try and head
        off an Amiga v. PC bashfest like comp.graphics has been seeing...

        First off, regarding CBM trying harder...

        Kiernan said, "If the users compalin about the computers, CBM would work
        harder to impress the users."
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        CBM is a rather unusual company.  The CEO & president, Mehdi Ali, calls all
        of the shots.  All of them.  His decisions reflect where he thinks he can
        make money next *quarter*.  Not next year.  Not the next 5 years.  The next
        3 months.  What the engineers design and what the company releases often have
        little in common.  The first spec. for the AA machine (1200 & 4000) called for
        up to 8M of graphics memory and an on-board DSP with CODECs for audio and
        telephone.  Look at what actually shipped.  The first design for what became
        the 4000 called for a machine with an '030, SCSI and DSP on board, and in a
        package that would retail for $995.  Instead out came the 4000 at ~$2800.
Command:

        How do I know this?  I used to work there.  I was layed off in this year's
        second downsizing in April.  As for CBM abandoning the Amiga, they may not
        need to.)  They may abandon the business world first.  (For those that haven't
        heard, CBM posted a first quarter loss of ~$177 million.  This prompted the 3rd
        round of layoffs last Friday.  Companywide it amounted to ~65% staff reduction.)

        As for buggy Amiga programs...

        Have you written much SW for the Amiga?  How about the PC?  I've written for
Command:
        both.   SW can be very portable between the two *IF* you plan to support that
        from the outset.  SW that's written expressly for the PC is painful to port to
        the Amiga, and vice versa.  On the Amiga, you query the display database for
        the type of screen you want (resolution, number of colors, PAL/NTSC, etc) and
        you are given a "magic number"  that you pass to the OS's display routines.
--------------
Is it a magic number or is it a set of flags. To me, a magic number
is a number that has no easy to describe idea behind it, is purely kludged
or made up as a quick fix, that seems to work, and isn't given any name.
I mean, if you are using CGA mode on a PC, there is a set of flags and
Command:
values used for each character and each pixel... Is the magic number
an address of a memory location which contains an address of the first
pixel in memory, or something like that? If you know what it means, then
it isn't a magic number...  I have written programs in AmigaE that
call screens and windows, but I didn't know what half the numbers
used to open a window and a screen meant.. Is this CBM's
way of keeping control information secret?
---------------
        That's what you're seeing being mimiced in the PC.  I'm sure they used good
---------------
Command:
On the PC's you do something about as wierd... I remember reading about
how to open screens on a 8541 based graphics card.. It is like you
poke values in the graphics card using the OUT and IN operations to
determin the mode used, and you just hope that the card does what you
want it to. I tried it once, but the system went on the fritz and I
just decided to stick with the 10H graphics interrupt service calls
even though they don't support anything beyond 320x200 in 256 colors
(they do, but anything above AL=13H on a Int 10H with AH=00H
 is nonstandard... but interesting).
----------------
Command:
        (or at least reasonable) development practices, but those were focused on the
        Amiga environment.  Given the choice, I'd much rather port between the PC and
        UNIX (either direction) than port between either of those and the Amiga.
----------------
Why? The PC's don't even support standard UNIX-style filenames,
or even the directory structure... Did you know that MSDOS is limited
to 100 files per directory on floppy disks?? This means it will
not let you save files in a directory unless you create a sub-directory.
I would, if i was porting programs between systems, rather port
between Linux and UNIX, not MSDOS and UNIX, than Amiga and UNIX.
Command:

Couldn't you just create classes in C++ to mimic all the functions
(I don't know how to do this exactly, but I know it can be done)
needed on a general level... When you port between the machines
you would only need to re-implement the functions that are hidden
within the scope of each class, this way you wouldn't have to rewrite
all the extra code needed to perform the non-specific functions
like opening screens, checking screen dimensions, setting screen
dimensions, defining errors, handling screens and windows, handling
I/O, etc. Once you have written your program on this level, then
Command:
you write the code to do the low-level work and the interfacing
between the general software and the operating system used..
If you don't break the rules and try poking values directly into the
hardware with assembly from the general part of the program, the
code should port very easily. You could use C, but C++ makes
it easier since you are not always having to look up functions
in libraries, and you don't have to worry about which data
is supposed to be passed to a function, that is all handled
by C++...  I mean, you may have a function that needs
a address value for the screen and some special sauce passed to
Command:
a function "winadr *OpenWindow(screentype,specialtype) ",
instead in C++ you could overload the "=" operator to handle screens
and windows on the Amiga and Unix and
use "new window ; window = currentscreen"..

I have a friend who says his brother is working on an operating system
that will be entirely written in C++ and he will need only about 8000
lines of machine code to interface the operating system to any machine..
Making it very very portable.
-----------
Command:
        Remember, the original Amiga team was building a game machine, not a micro-
        computer.  They apparently saw nothing to be gained by modeling their OS
-----------
Whether they built it for a video game machine or a business machine,
it doesn't matter.. PC's are no mirracle... What do you call
modeling a operating system after CPM?? a Business operating system...
No a silly piece of archaic sh*t. MSDOS thinks it only has 2^20 address
lines and it was designed entirely around memory mapping and interrupt
service calls and 64K data,code,stack and extra segments..
At least the AMiga is dynamic in its placement of resources and
Command:
allocation of memory, the way it should be.
------------
        interface after anyone else.  The engineers at CBM have tried to improve
        things, but that is difficult without throwing a lot of stuff out and starting
        over.  The changes they have made have been for the better, but SW written
-------------
ya.. Just talk to Microsoft, they are having to work at a snails pace
and carefully to maintain its userbase without aggrevating the developers..
I think Amigados is designed much better,and was because it was
developed 3 years after MSDOS, the programmers of Amigados and the
Command:
CBM engineers came from all walks of life as far as operating systems
went... Why do you think Amigados has dynamically linkable libraries,
dynamic allocation of memory, multi-tasking and 25 character filenames??
Jay Miner's original plans were to create a video game system, which
was going to have a somewhat different design than the Amiga 1000,
but in the last few years between paying Atari back for the loan
they gave him when he started out and making a deal with CBM to
make the machine, he decided to aim the Amiga at the personal
computing market. The original idea was to make it a video game machine
but that wasn't the idea when it was released...
Command:
-------------
(extra stuff deleted)
-------------
        I'm trying not to defend or accuse anyone here, I'm just trying to present
        the facts of the situation.  Anything that was written expressly for one
        environment is going to take time to get working correctly in another.  If
        you want to be able to run on both Amiga & PC you need to design that in
        early on.  The game "Lemmings 2" is one example that comes to mind of a
--------------
No you don't... You can write software for any machine if you design
Command:
it in a way that it can... It is not impossible, it may be hard, but
it is not impossible. All you need to do is know what to expect,
a disk drive, hard drive possibly, graphics output, I/O interface,
joystick controller, sound system, etc. In short, you write a
interface between the part that will run the program and the
operating system. Any graphics screens, calls, such will be handed
to the interface between the program and the operating system.
The program can be designed on a higher level without sacrificing
speed using C++. Then when you need to port the game all you need
to do is rewrite the interface between the game and the operating system.
Command:
I guess this is what they call a virtual system, I don't know,
but I would think that it is more dynamic than something that
is directly written on the operating system for the operating system.
--------------
        program designed for either environment.
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4077 My first <serious> modeling attempt
6/29/93 08:21 8/ [e-mail] (Thorne Kontos)
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I finally finished modeling a chess set and uploaded it to
wuarchive.wustl.edu in the systems/amiga/incoming/imagine
directory. I uploaded a gif file for space conservation.
Check it out and let me know what you think.

                                      Thanks,
                                      Thorne K. Kontos

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4078 Re: AT3D-Demo
6/29/93 08:31 24/ [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
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>>>>> On Tue, 29 Jun 93 01:31:07 EST, [e-mail] (Alex Deburie) said:

Alex> Glenn,

Alex> I sincerely hope you do not think that Vertex, my shareware /
Alex> commercial object editor & converter has any basis on your code
Alex> from T3DLIB. Actually, I wasn't even aware your code existed in
Alex> the public domain until well after I had written the initial
Alex> routines.

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        No, no, not at all, Alex.  I never had any suspicions about
Vertex at all.  A very fine product indeed, that you should be proud of!

        In fact, while I am here on the list again, I would like to make
a public apology to everyone for giving into the temptation to post that
message.  There is no excuse, but I was having a very bad day, and let
it out on the IML.  I'm very, very, sorry.  I will try to hold my tongue
(uh, er, fingers) next time and double check my blood pressure before
posting.
                                                In a much happier mood,
Command:

                                                        -- Glenn


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4079 More Color Definitions Available by Request
6/29/93 12:18 20/ Mark Marino <[e-mail]>
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Alright,  I hacked up an awk script to convert the colors.inc file
included with the POVRay raytracing package into RGB values appropriate
for Imagine.  This has some interesting colors not included in the X11
rgb.txt file.

So once again, I'm making this available by request.  I'll upload it to
wuarchive in a few days, if thats o.k. with everyone.  In the interim,
send me an request and I'll bang off a copy to ya.
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Happy rendering,
Mark


 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                                                                             |
| Mark Marino              | [e-mail]           |  uunet!osf!omar         |
| Open Software Foundation | 11 Cambridge Center    |  Cambridge, MA 02142    |
|_____________________________________________________________________________|
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4080 No one wants the archivist job?
6/29/93 11:34 49/ [e-mail] (Marvin Landis)
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Well, here it is a couple days away from July 1 and nobody has come forward
(at least that I am aware of) to take over the IML archives.  So this is just
a gentle reminder that as of that date I will no longer be saving the IML
messages and making them available for anonymous ftp.  So I guess this is my
last ditch effort to encourage someone to take over this task.  In case you
are interested, here are the steps that I have used to keep the archives up to
date:

1.  Save all the non-administrative posts to the IML in a mail folder.
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    (Lately, this step has become a little bit of a problem for me.  I have
    at times chosen not to include some messages in the archives because they
    DEFINITELY should have been private e-mail, not messages to the list.
    I have also removed flame messages when there was absolutely no Imagine
    content to the message at all.  But I have been pretty inconsistent with
    my choice of deletions, and this has been a real dilemma for me, so if you
    take this over you can decide what should and should not be included in
    the archives.  Saving every message might be the best solution for a
    complete archive, but I wanted to keep the archives at a fairly high
    "useful content" level).
Command:

2.  Every 100 messages or so, strip out all the header information (except
    From, Subject, and Date) from all the saved messages.
    (I wrote a short and simple C program to accomplish this task.  If the
    program will work for you, you are welcome to it.  I use a Sun Sparcstation
    running Openwindows 3, and the program is written specifically for the
    way my mailer saves messages in folders.  So I don't know whether it will
    work with other mailers, it definitely was only written to solve the
    problem for me.)

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3.  Prepend the information at the beginning of the new archive, describing
    the archive number and the dates the new archive covers.

4.  Upload the new archive to the ftp site (currently wuarchive.wustl.edu).

5.  Announce the new archive to the IML.

Well that's it.  When I first took over the archives, 100 messages took about
1 month to gather.  About a year ago it was up to about 100 messages every 3
weeks.  Lately the number of messages has REALLY gone up, and now there all
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almost 100 messages a week!!  So I hope someone is willing to take on this task
for a while.  There is still some great information to be found on this list,
and I'm sure the new Imagine PC owners will be scrounging around for all the
help they can get (didn't we all when we first started using Imagine).  So
this might be your last chance for fame and glory, better hurry before someone
else jumps at this once in a lifetime opportunity :-).

Marvin Landis
[e-mail]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4081 more on Real 3D
6/29/93 11:46 53/ Daniel Jr Murrell <[e-mail]>
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Scott asked for my thoughts on Real 3D:

Well, I've only had it a few days (a friend bought it, loved it up until he
found it didn't do keyframing, and decided he'd rather have 3D Studio.  So, I'm
gonna buy it from him when I get the money, but for right now, he's letting
me borrow it.) so I haven't gotten _too_ deep yet, but here's some first impressions:

*  First of all, it is AMAZINGLY customizable.  You can set up your work
  environment with any number of screens, windows, and icons that you want.

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*  It has varying levels of quick-rendering, and it renders to any screen, window,
  or file that you specify.  Even on my 25 mhz. 030, it's very fast.  You can
also set up any number of bounding boxes to render inside only.  Turbo Silver did
this, and Imagine really needs to bring it back.

*  The modeller approaches Wavefront quality.  It has a lot more primitives and
  tools than Wavefront, the only real difference is you can't move solid models
  around.  BUT, when you do move or scale or deform or whatever, you do actually
  see the object's outline (or a bounding box, if you really prefer that).  With
  a menu switch, you can make the window orthogonal or perspective view.  Also,
Command:
  youcan do this while anything else is going on, i.e. rendering another window or
  screen.

*  The grouping is the best.  Period.  Wavefront doesn't even com close.  You have
  any number of 'Select" windows open with a list of the heirarchy, and if you want
  to group one object to another, you simply put them under the same level.  A good
  example is if you want a camera to track a specific object, you drop the aimpoint
  object in with that object.  No telling the camera to track the object, no typing
  in the animation channel of the object-to-be-tracked (as in Wavefront).

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*  Superior control of textures, plus you can have as many as you want.  They can be
  set to blend smoothly, or to dominte all other textures on an object.  Want to
  add a 17th bump mape to one particular region of your object?  Group it under the
  Object, and set the specific area you want mapped with a bounding box, or sphere,
  or cylinder, or plane.

*  Plus you get all the niceties: deformations, ACTUAL SPLINE OBJECTS, the particle
  system, collision detection etc.  The next release of Wavefront will have collision
  detection and particle systems, so Real 3D is doing pretty good, for the price.
   I recently did one of the tutorials on collision detection, where you make a
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  winding, curvy tube, and a ball.  You create a velocity vector, and aim it at
  the open end of the tube (well, it's open after you tell it not to be solid anymore)
  and the ball will use the direction of the vector and it's length to set it's
  direction and amount of force with which to move.  Tell it how many frames you want
  and animate it, and the ball is "flung" into the tube, where it rattles around
  as it goes down, using the laws of physics.  Very nice.


That's just some quick impressions, but I tell you, Imagine 3.0 had better be
REALLY good.
Command:

Dan
[e-mail]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4082 Essence II
6/29/93 12:50 203/ [e-mail] (Steve Worley)
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I promised the lowdown on Essence II, and here it is! All Essence I
owners have been sent out newsletters which contain essentially the
same facts as this post. The big difference is that with Internet
users, I can upload JPEG examples and not have to show printed black
and white halftones. :-) Several of these JPEGS will be uploaded later
today to Portal and FTP site(s), and I'll post their locations when
they are in place.

If you have any questions about Essence II, EMAIL *ME*, not the list.
I'll repost a summary of any recurring questions. This will help cut
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down on stray (and repetitive) posts to the IML.  My email address is
"[e-mail]". You can also call Apex at 415-322-7532.

----

Since Essence I came out in August 1992, we've been working on the
sequel.  We've learned a lot since the original Essence has shipped,
and it shows in our new textures. To put it bluntly, the new set rocks
and rolls!  We're AWFULLY proud of these new surfaces. If you liked
the first set of textures, this sequel will absolutely knock you out.
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They're THAT good!

So the basics. Most of you already know what Essence is: it's a
library of more algorithmic textures for Imagine. Many (most,
probably!) of the users on the IML probably have and use it.  Essence
II is a second set of completely new textures (It's NOT a revision of
the first set).

Many features in Essence Volume II are similar to Essence I. The
textures work with Imagine 0.9 through 2.0, have built-in capabilities
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like the fade control, the -1 color disabling feature, and built in
error messages.

The style of these textures is somewhat different than the original
Essence. Based on feedback from the original Essence we've tailored
many textures to satisfy the demands that many people had.  First,
most of the textures now include a bump mapping ability. Why map just
a plain flat image if you can add bumps and pits and ridges at the
same time?  This made the textures harder to program, but the surfaces
have become so realistic the effort was worth it.  Eighty percent of
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the textures have some sort of altitude effect built into them, as
opposed to Essence I in which only about one sixth of the textures
bump-map.

A second change was to decrease the use of obscure parameters like
"Amplitude ratio." This helps you use common sense to determine what
different parameters do. The manual contains complete descriptions of
each control, and we've expanded all of the descriptions to be more
complete and lucid.

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The most major addition should well appreciated. Included with Essence
Volume II are well over 150 attribute files which can immediately be
applied to your objects. These are examples of how to use the
textures; sample settings and combinations that show the range of
surfaces that almost all the textures can produce. You can use these
files as a library of new surfaces to add to your object, but more
importantly the variety of these examples will give you a better idea
of what each texture is capable of. There's also a library of on-disk
pictures of many of these so you won't have to render them to get an
idea of what they look like. This should reduce the amount of
Command:
experimentation needed to find the type of surface you're looking for.

The textures themselves are a completely different set from the
original volume. These new textures tend to be much more detailed and
less "boring" than the Essence I textures, allowing you to use them
directly without having to use many layers of textures to build a
complex surface.  While many of the Essence I textures were based on
"fractal noise", Essence II has many textures with a different type of
appearance, best described as an organic, randomly tiled surface. This
type of texturing is, literally, state of the art in 1993, with
Command:
Essence II being the FIRST company to use this new type of texture
basis. NOBODY using an SGI or a PC or a Mac has these! If this sounds
like we're gloating, well, it's because we are. In a year you'll be
seeing textures with this style being used by others, but right now
Apex has the monopoly over these unique surfaces. You can have great
fun challenging your rendering buddies to reproduce these new effects;
they won't be able to!

Somewhat like Essence I, Essence II has a variety of textures, with a
couple of themes and many that are just unique.  A partial list of
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some of the textures follows.

Space Textures

Gasplanet: This texture makes the turbulent, banded surface of gas
planets such as Jupiter, Saturn, and Uranus. We even include objects
of these three planets with the correct settings to reproduce the
appearance of the real planets.

Planetring: Absolutely gorgeous planet ring systems, like Saturn's.
Command:
You can make a "natural" appearance with subtle shades of colors, or
go for the JPL "photo-enhanced" high contrast electric color scheme.
You can make everything from thin solitary rings to a complex
Saturn-style ring system with thousands of ringlets.

Cyclone: A hurricane spiral, ready to paste onto a planet. It makes a
great Red Spot for Jupiter, or you can use it on a map of Earth and
threaten any city you like with instant destruction.

Spaceship hull: You asked for it, you got it! Irregularly tiled
Command:
plates, with varying colors and brightnesses. Another texture
("Machinery") makes the conduit-and-boxy-structure type of surface
that you see on the Death Star. With altitude mapping of course!

Organic Textures

These cannot be easily described. A set of "organic" surfaces with
altitude mapping which will let you make everything from snake skin to
parched, leather-like hides. Many of them are disgusting, sort of like
crusty alien snot (but worse). And these textures are designed to
Command:
layer with each other, producing even more repulsive combinations. One
texture in particular makes lumpy-looking fungus patches which, as one
beta tester noted, should not be shown to the squeamish.

Bumpy Things

If you use Bump from Essence I, throw it away. A new set
of altitude textures gives you the ability to transform a flat plane
into a variety of uneven surfaces.

Command:
Stucco and Pitted are much more powerful variants of Bump that allow
you to make surfaces with pits and raised surfaces, or stucco-like
layers. You can erode a landscape in an instant.

Crumpled: Perhaps the coolest texture of all. Its abilities are
amazing, despite the plain name. It makes crumpled paper, cauliflower,
even a surface that looks like just like a pile of berries.

Burnish: Just like the Terminator II logo. Makes outstanding metallic
surfaces, as well as scratches on almost any surface. You flying logo
Command:
artists will love this puppy!

Water Effects

Waterdrop: the surface ripples that radiating out from a disturbance
in the water, like a impact of a drop of water.

Waterdropref: like Waterdrop, but this version will also compute
REFLECTIONS of the ripples from the sides of a basin or tub. Very
realistic!
Command:

Raindrops: Waterdrops falling at random, with definable density and
strength.  Very cool and completely automatic!

Seawaves: an ocean surface, with physically correct, animated,
windblown waves.


Miscellaneous textures

Command:
LatLonLines: makes a gridwork on a sphere, just like the lines on a
globe.

Radarscope: A circular disk, with an animated, sweeping trace. You can
use a brushmap or texture to make "blips" which brighten and fade as
the trace passes over them.

Fiber: sort of a mishmash of intertwined threads, like a ball of twine
or a fiberglass patch.

Command:
Faceted: A relative of Crumpled which makes gemstones and
photorealistic ice shards.

A list of just some of the other textures:

Bumparray
Clusterbump
Crust
Flagstones
Fleck
Command:
Julia
Plasma
Polkabump
Scales
Shingles
Vein
Woodgrain


And thrown in for fun, here's some more statistical comparisons between
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Essence I and II:

34 Essence II textures apply bump mapping. (80%)
 8 Essence I  textures apply bump mapping. (12%)

There are 26 "base" textures in Essence I  with 40 variants. (39%/61%)
There are 30 "base" textures in Essence II with 13 variants. (70%/30%)

If code size is a measure of texture complexity, the average texture
executable size in Volume I was 12K. The average texture executable
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size in Volume II is 26K.


------------

Essence II has a list price of $140.00. There is a discount price for
IML readers (and current Essence owners) of $74.00 US. Please call
Apex at 415-322-7532 if you have any further questions or wish to
order.

Command:
-Steve
[e-mail]

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4083 More Color Definitions Available by Request
6/29/93 13:55 12/ [e-mail] (David Ingebretsen)
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I'd love a copy. Thank you for your time and efforts.

        David

        David M. Ingebretsen
        Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
        [e-mail]

        Disclaimer: The content of this message in no way reflects the
                    opinions of my employer, nor are my actions
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                    encouraged, supported, or acknowledged by my
                    employer.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4084 Taking over the list
6/29/93 14:03 22/ [e-mail] (David Ingebretsen)
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In response to Marvin Landis' last posting, I've offered to take over
the archive. Unless Marvin has already made arrangements with someone
else, starting July 1, 1993 I will save, archive, and upload each
months mailings to wuarchive.wustl.edu.

I will not delete any submitted message unless there is a huge outcry
from the majority of subscribers.

My mail has been very stable lately and I don't think I've missed any
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traffic.

Name/address:

        David M. Ingebretsen
        Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
        600 Komas Drive
        Salt Lake City, UT 84108

EMAIL:
Command:
        [e-mail]

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4085 Re: No one wants the archivist job?
6/29/93 15:24 26/ [e-mail] (Marvin Landis)
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It's me again.  I just wanted to report that David Ingebretsen has volunteered
to take over as archivist for the mailing list.  David said he would hate to
see the archive go away (and so would I), so I want to thank David for
his willingness to take on the job.  David's posts to the list are always
well thought out and informative, I have complete confidence that he will
keep the archives rolling along.

All together now,  THANKS David!!!!!

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Several people have written me asking if I will be leaving the list once I
give up the archivists job.  No, I'll still be lurking around.  In fact,
because of our hot weather around here (115 degrees last Sat.) I am no longer
able to continue my woodworking hobby in my garage, so I decided it was time
to sit down and do some kind of project using Imagine and my Amiga again.
So, to make sure I would commit some time to Imagine, I called Steve Worley
and ordered Essence and Essence II.  With a couple new toys like that, I
probably won't have any trouble having some fun on my Amiga again.  I have a
couple of new ideas for some animations, and I'm sure Steve's textures will
give me a few more ideas.  So at least during these hot summer nights, I'll be
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spending my time in an air conditioned house, working with Imagine.  Maybe this
means I will be able to contribute to the Imagine discussion more often,
rather than just being a predominately silent archivist.

Marvin Landis
[e-mail]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4086 Essence II JPEGS
6/29/93 19:23 15/ [e-mail] (Steve Worley)
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I've uploaded four JPEGS to the Aminet ftp sites, in the /new
directory.  Two are simple collages of forty of the textures
(EssII-1.JPEG and EssII-2.JPEG). One is an example of the nine Organic
textures, used in various combinations on an extruded font object
(Organic.JPEG) and the last is some of the Space textures, again on an
extruded font (Space.JPEG). The images have also been uploaded to
Portal.

Aminet is a series of ftp sites that mirror each other. The main
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site is ftp.luth.se.

I'll probably upload some more examples in the next week or so.

CG&S
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4087 Re: Apex
6/29/93 22:36 4/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        your own RPL handlers?  (RPL is the built-in programming language of Real 3D)
--------
Is this anything like writing  renderman shaders... It sounds interesting..

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4088 Re: Is there an AGA-supporting version of Imagine?
6/29/93 23:43 28/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Sun, 27 Jun 1993 [e-mail] wrote:

> and output (HAM8 files, etc, and ability to use different screenmodes like
> Super72 or whatever).
>
> However, I phoned Impulse and got an extremely rude gentleman on the other
> end (no surprise there) who in short, told me I had been misinformed,
> and that the fact that I had never received the last two Impulse newsletters
> wasn't their fault.
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Not surprising. Although they weren't exactly rude to me they answered all
my questions with one word answers (Yes, soon etc.)

>
> Any ideas, people?  Not getting the last two newsletters has left me
> a bit in the dark.  Any info appreciated on whether AGA support exists,
> and if not, when it will arrive.  I had thought 3.0 was supposed to be out
> by now.
>
Command:
It was reported in AW that a version of Imagine 2 would come out
supporting AGA, but Impulse have decided to hold off until V3.0. Now I
wish they'd hurry up with Imagine 3.0.

Nik.
[e-mail]


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4089 Re: 3dfonts
6/29/93 23:40 19/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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> Also, to repeat my self.  (Since I have got no confermation or denial)
> Can I PLEASE get a sample or something of an essance thing?
> Kinda like a demo?
> Or at the least, ftp a essanced render to aminet for me? So I can see what
> I would be buying! ;) (Gee, right about now my other post is prolly makeing it
> to the list. And I will have repeated myself!)
>
As I've also mentioned this before (BTW, E-mail to you bounced) check out
the gfx/pics/guard directory on the Aminet sites - these contain pictures
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created by A. Denton, many of which use Essence and really show its power.

I'm planning to do a piccy using Essence quite heavilly and will U/L it to
wuarchive in a few days.

Nik.
[e-mail]


Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4090 Re: How's the Retina work with Imagine?
6/29/93 23:23 51/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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>
> I have heard much talk over this new graphics board.  If any of you >
use it with Imagine, I'm curious.  What is the maximum resolution > that
you have used when running the modeler? (detail, forms etc.) > Have you
tried to output 24-bit to a VTR (single framing)?  What is the > largest
resolution you can view (on a good monitior) a Imagine rendering? > And
the most important question... Now that you have one, do you want your >
money back? > > I am seriously considering this board and the GVP EGS

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I don not own a Retina but I had a lend of it for 3 weeks for a review I
was doing for a local Disk Magazine.
The board works really well with Imagine and I used it at 800*600 and also
at 1024*768 at a friends place. I only had an SVGA monitor so could only
use it at 800*600.
Once the Retina EMU software is setup properly for Imagine (i.e. enter the
Res. from those available and turn off Defaults) Imagine will open on a
new screen with no troubles. In fact even the Imagine.pic doesn't need
changing. The display will update quicker (after the first time - CPU used
for initial drawing of the image) on redraws and the extra detail offered
Command:
is great!. What you also get is extra space for the buttons down the
bottom and an added bonus - when in Pick points (or faces, or edges ) mode
hitting Redraw redraws all the  objects (quickly)  rather than just the
object being worked on. There are times when I would buy the Retina just
for this feature! (much more often useful than not)
There is one drawback - you cannot do preview anims in the Stage Editor,
or rather, you can, but will not see them. This was a problem with the EGS
board that I saw here at the WOC last year. The problem is really Imagine,
as it uses direct calls to the Custom Chips and not the graphics.library.

Command:
The Emulation software works with quite a few programs and can even handle
some poorly written stuff but not a lot.
256 color WB is supported on AGA machines, but there is also a patch to
run the 8 bit WB on non-AGA machines, but right now this is still quite
slow although workable (kinda like non-expanded A1200).

The rest of the software is not bad, namely XIPaint (VDPaint) although it
isn't TVPaint or Opal Paint.

Animation is still not supported by the software and manuals for the
Command:
VDPaint are still in production...

Still, as I concluded in my review, this board is perfect for people that
need Hi-Res displays (e.g. DTP, 3D-artists).

The EGS may be a quicker card (sure looked that way last year)

Nik.
[e-mail]

Command:

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4091 Re: AT3D-Demo
6/30/93 00:17 28/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Mon, 28 Jun 1993, Jeff Niebergall wrote:

> I just uploaded to wuarchive (128.252.135.4) in
> pub/amiga/incoming a demo version of a new
> 3-D object conversion utility. It FULLY supports
> DXF<>Imagine<>Lightwave and other fromats. The
> programmer, Wayne Hogue is a member of our local
> Amiga club but does not have internet access so
> he asked me to upload it. The file is AT3D.lha and it
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> containes some sample DXF objects to try
> with it as well. The demo version is limited
> to objects with less than 99 points and does not save
> preferences. It does however come with Commodore Installer
> and has AmigaGuide online help included.
>
> I will also shortly be uploading some JPG images that were
> rendered in Imagine and modeled in AutoCad that were done
> by one of the beta testers.
>
Command:
Well, I have a question... Is the program available, and how much does it
cost?

Nik.
[e-mail]



Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4092 Re: Brushmap collections
6/30/93 00:22 30/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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> Nik,
>
> Thanks for the info.  I'm sure it would be o.k. to post this info to
> the list (especially in light of all the other chaff being posted) so I've
> taken the liberty to CC this to the list.

Ok, thank you.
>
> I'd love to see some of the texture sample pictures uploaded to wuarchive.
> As for IFF vs TIFF vs JPEG for brushmaps, I'd prefer TIFF even if they are
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> bigger, at least they're not lossy.  What would be really cool would be if you
> could make up some contact sheets with a little swatch from each of
> the textures and upload that.  If that's not possible, how about an
> list of all the brushmaps in the sets?

Ok, we can make them TIFF on request, but they'll have to be archived
(.lha OK?) in order to fit on the disks.

I can't give you the names as we only have them named as TILE-xxx - Yeah,
I know, very imaginative!.
Command:
The disks however have screens included with them that give you the
Picture previews of the tiles.
I may put up a couple of these on the wuarchive. Just remind me in 5 days
please! (WOC starting on the 2nd - it is HECTIC!)

Nik.
[e-mail]



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4093 Re: No one wants the archivist job?
6/30/93 00:15 75/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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            DEFINITELY should have been private e-mail, not messages to the list.
            I have also removed flame messages when there was absolutely no Imagine
            content to the message at all.  But I have been pretty inconsistent with
            my choice of deletions, and this has been a real dilemma for me, so if you
---------------
I could do it if there was some way that I could automate the task...
You can look at it this way, the archive would have everyone's
messages but mine (since I delete all mine, ofcourse).
I do archive messages from IML but usually I give each its own name...
I will think about it... Who knows, I may write a C program to
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automate the task of organizing the messages...
---------------
            complete archive, but I wanted to keep the archives at a fairly high
            "useful content" level).
---------------
Hmmm... I thought of it in the way someone thinks of a salad bar...
Take what is useful to you... If you put the messages in mailbox format
then you can delete messages by simply loading the text file with a
PD email program  (if there are any).

Command:
(Note: for Unix users to delete my mail... you can put a "d kholland"
in your ".mailrc" . I assume that works.. Of course I could
do that for your mail as well.. ;-) )
---------------
            way my mailer saves messages in folders.  So I don't know whether it will
            work with other mailers, it definitely was only written to solve the
            problem for me.)
----------------
Sounds like me... What would be easier is if all the messages
echoed from the imagine server had some login-name that
Command:
I could just put a "s imagine IML.archive" in my .mailrc and forget about it.
I could put a "s * IML.archive" in and have a C program strip the
messages that do not contain the Email address for the Imagine archive...
How did you do yours???
----------------
        3.  Prepend the information at the beginning of the new archive, describing
            the archive number and the dates the new archive covers.
----------------
Sounds like something that could be automated, but it would be hard...
I'm not that lazy, I could just do what you said...
Command:
----------------
        4.  Upload the new archive to the ftp site (currently wuarchive.wustl.edu).
----------------
Which directory???
I could also upload to Funic to make it easier for the Euro users..
----------------
        5.  Announce the new archive to the IML.
----------------
No problem... Some people hate my guts because I announce everything to
IML. One thing i will not announce: "Okay, everyone I am now going to the
Command:
bathroom." ;-)
----------------
        weeks.  Lately the number of messages has REALLY gone up, and now there all
        almost 100 messages a week!!  So I hope someone is willing to take on this task
----------------
Tell me about it mailer number 145..
----------------
        help they can get (didn't we all when we first started using Imagine).  So
        this might be your last chance for fame and glory, better hurry before someone
        else jumps at this once in a lifetime opportunity :-).
Command:
----------------
Sure would look good on a resume, don't you think??? Omagod, De-jaaa Vuuu..
Somewhere I said this, on another piece of email.
----------------
        Marvin Landis
        [e-mail]
----------------
Okay... I will see what I can do. I already archive the Linux group
unofficially... funny, I have never read one message from that group
and I still archive it.. ;-). I will try to archive the IML from
Command:
this point on... Have any tips? Email me!!

Kiernan Holland
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4094 Re: Essence II JPEGS
6/30/93 07:07 24/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Tue, 29 Jun 1993, Steve Worley wrote:

>
> I've uploaded four JPEGS to the Aminet ftp sites, in the /new
> directory.  Two are simple collages of forty of the textures
> (EssII-1.JPEG and EssII-2.JPEG). One is an example of the nine Organic
> textures, used in various combinations on an extruded font object
> (Organic.JPEG) and the last is some of the Space textures, again on an
> extruded font (Space.JPEG). The images have also been uploaded to
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> Portal.
>
> Aminet is a series of ftp sites that mirror each other. The main
> site is ftp.luth.se.
>
Steve, the problem with the Aminet is that it may not be operating as well
as it used to when amiga.physik.unizh.ch was online.
Maybe you could upload the examples onto wuarchive ?

Nik.
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[e-mail]



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4095 What's the word on GVP's EGS board?
6/30/93 06:46 29/ "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529" <[e-mail]
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> Still, as I concluded in my review, this board is perfect for people that
> need Hi-Res displays (e.g. DTP, 3D-artists).
>
> The EGS may be a quicker card (sure looked that way last year)
>
> Nik.
> [e-mail]

Does anyone have information on GVP's upcomming EGS graphics board?
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This board has been in development for years now and I should think
that it is done baking.  I had allmost given up hope on this board
but now I keep seeing people mentioning it.

This REAL nice feature of this board is that it will give A2000 owners
with a GVP accelerator board 32-bit access to it.  That is unless they
have significantly changed the specs in the years that it has been in
development.

Oh yea, it would make a real nice board for use with Imagine. ;-)
Command:

-Jeff-

=========================================================================
 [e-mail]           Software Artist           Amiga 2000/030
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 The best code optimizer is in your head.   I always want more for less.
=========================================================================

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4096 IMAGINE ARCHIVES
6/30/93 08:54 17/ [e-mail] (David Ingebretsen)
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As Marvin said, I will now start archiving the list. I will begin towmorrow
and will upload the archive once per month at wuarchive.

Thanks to all you who contribute to the list. Please, keep me busy :)


        David

        David M. Ingebretsen
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        Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
        [e-mail]

        Disclaimer: The content of this message in no way reflects the
                    opinions of my employer, nor are my actions
                    encouraged, supported, or acknowledged by my
                    employer.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4098 Re: Essence II JPEGS
6/30/93 10:07 32/ [e-mail] (Steve Worley)
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I logged in this morning, and my mailbox was packed with email about
the pictures. :-) Let me answer some of the questions asked....


1) Yes, the Organic textures are fully 3D.

2) The neon yellow-green "e" in the Space image uses Planetrings
   to make the concentric rings.

3) Flagstones does apply bump mapping, and it is fully 3D.
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4) The font in the collages was "Ultimate Heavy" [Someone asked!]

5) The background plane for the Organic picture IS flat. The bumpy
   features are added by texture bump mapping.

6) Aminet has several FTP sites. The main site is ftp.luth.se, and
   the images are:

     /pub/aminet/pix/misc/EssII-1.JPEG
Command:
     /pub/aminet/pix/misc/EssII-2.JPEG
     /pub/aminet/pix/misc/Organic.JPEG
     /pub/aminet/pix/misc/Space.JPEG

  The images are also on Portal.

7) If anyone wants to have image(s) emailed to them, just send me
   email. Note that these are about 140K uuencoded each.

-Steve
Command:
[e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4099 help me make dry mud. Please!
6/30/93 14:04 16/ [e-mail] (Brian Ridout)
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Hi all,

        I give up!  I need some help with making a dry lake bed.
If my assumption is correct a lake bed is made of of cracks which
are ruff polygons.  Right??  I haven't been able to think of a way
to make this.  I have tried using Essence texture blobc.  It looks
ok but not exactly what I am after.  I really don't want to resort
to a hand drawn brush map.  Any help would be appreciated.

A second but related question.  If I am finaly able to make this.
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Is there a way to make the ground in the distance not look speckled?

Thanks a bunch

Brian Ridout
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4100 Imagine PC
6/30/93 16:01 10/ [e-mail]
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     I have a couple of questions for Imagine PC owners. Where else can I
find the PC version besides Impulse themselves and how much is the street
price nowadays? If you have both PC and Amiga versions, how similar are the
two? In other words, can staging files, objects, etc. be exchanged? My
friend and I are seriously thinking of getting the PC version and using the
PC as a second renderer.

Thank you much.
-Ramon
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4101 Re:  help me make dry mud. Please!
6/30/93 16:00 29/ "Charles Congdon" <[e-mail]>
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Brian Ridout <[e-mail]> writes:

>       I give up!  I need some help with making a dry lake bed.
>  If my assumption is correct a lake bed is made of of cracks which
>  are ruff polygons.  Right??  I haven't been able to think of a way
>  to make this.  I have tried using Essence texture blobc.  It looks
>  ok but not exactly what I am after.  I really don't want to resort
>  to a hand drawn brush map.  Any help would be appreciated.

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        I'd suggest you look at the Organic (in particular Vein1) and
Flagstone textures in Essence II.  I'm pretty sure they can give you the
"cracked" look you want with a little tweeking.  In fact, I recall thinking
this during one of my renderings.
        Alternately, try using an altitude bitmap on which you have painted the
cracks.  The difficulty with this is getting a pattern that doesn't obviously
repeat when tiled.

>  A second but related question.  If I am finaly able to make this.
>  Is there a way to make the ground in the distance not look speckled?
Command:

        How about a linear fade on the "cracked mud" texture/bitmap of your
choice that fades it to a solid color in the distance.  Then linear fade "in" a
little blobc to give that distant ground a non-unform appearance, without it
being applied to stuff close up.

        I hope this works.  Good luck!
        Cheers,
        Charles     - Standard disclaimer
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4102 Re: long subjects,killfiles
6/30/93 18:02 12/ John J Humpal <[e-mail]>
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Kevin Kodama writes:
>
> or, at least tell me how to set up a killfile for a mailing list :-)

        Which mailer are you using?  I think this can be done with
elm.  At least, I used to be able to do it with an ancient version.
I just haven't had a reason to until recently.  Harumph!
--
-John

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John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4103 Re: help me make dry mud. Please!
6/30/93 22:52 49/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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                I give up!  I need some help with making a dry lake bed.
        If my assumption is correct a lake bed is made of of cracks which
        are ruff polygons.  Right??  I haven't been able to think of a way
---------------
Ya, but they don't look triangular, actually the edges are more
sharp and rounded than straight edged...
---------------
        to make this.  I have tried using Essence texture blobc.  It looks
        ok but not exactly what I am after.  I really don't want to resort
        to a hand drawn brush map.  Any help would be appreciated.
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---------------
There was a article a way back where Amazing computing (before the
days of Imagine 1.1 and 2.0, more like back with Turbo Silver)
gave some instruction on how to create a marble texture map.
I followed the instructions which told me how to create what
looked like stick-men contortionist on a cavewall, smoothed it out,
and low and behold a marble texture... But It also worked
great as a dessert-floor... (PS - this was the first amazing computing
magazine that made me switch from AMiga World as my magazine of choice
to Amazing Computing.. Amazing computing has been helpful ever since..)
Command:
Maybe I can find that magazine but it has been about 2 years since
I saw that magazine, who knows where it is now...  It looked
kinda what some artists depict a dinosaur's cracked egg to look like..
Paint it brown and use it as a dessert texture.. ;-)
---------------
        A second but related question.  If I am finaly able to make this.
        Is there a way to make the ground in the distance not look speckled?
-----------------
Lower the specular light diffusion factor... And don't make the stuff glossy.
Lake beds often are dry and crusty (dried mud, looks like cardboard
Command:
but can be sharp and bubbley looking). A light source that is either close to
the ground our just above it should prevent the speckled look (if I understand
what you mean by speckled..), Also some anti-aliasing might help smooth
out the background and make the scene look more realitic.  You might be
able to make a brush map that has the texture of the mud but bump-maps
and 2D texturing beyond the texture of the mud will not simulate
a dry lake-bed (up close, that is...) You might try to make some
objects that look like crusty mud, then somehow dissolve it into the
background which is a texture map similar to the 3D objects...

Command:
(I wrote this before I read the top... But it might spur some ideas..)
How about hand-doing the brush maps for crusty mud, then convert
the brushes objects and extrude/modify them so the edges are not
totally straight, then take a magnet and push and pull the
underlying surface to create the dry bubble-like ... well
The best way to do it is to go out on a hot day and examine mud..
Living in Texas I saw my share of mud so this isn't all that hard for
me to describe but out around arizona and california, there is a desert
out there somewhere that just looks like cracked earth for miles.
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4104 Re:  help me make dry mud. Please!
6/30/93 23:00 11/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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                Alternately, try using an altitude bitmap on which you have painted the
        cracks.  The difficulty with this is getting a pattern that doesn't obviously
        repeat when tiled.
----------------------
Ya... that is something I was almost about to say... A algorithimic texture
that has some amount of randomness in its cracks would do a better
job.. A brush map that is large enough... warping the land just a tad so
that the cracks are hidden by cracks that are more in the foreground thus
tricking the eye into thinking that ground is more complex than it
really is... Puting some eroded drainage ditches in would also make the image
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more realistic.
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4105 Re: Imagine PC
7/1/93 08:04 31/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
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> If you have both PC and Amiga versions, how similar are the
> two? In other words, can staging files, objects, etc. be exchanged?

I've been working with Imagine PC on a 486/50 for about two months now,
and an unaccelerated A500 since Turbo Silver came out.  I've had complete
success transferring object and staging files from one to the other, with
the exception of the RGB values in the Attributes requester.  These get
red-shifted if you try to edit attributes created on one machine on the
other platform, but if you don't open the Attributes requester, the
object's colors are OK.  (see previous posts for gory details)
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The only other problem is the difference between PC and Amiga file
structure.  You'll have to reedit all the paths for any projects you want
to transfer between machines, including objects, textures, brushmaps,
effects, paths, etc.  It's doable, but a drag.  I recommend using one
machine to do staging and rendering, and using the other only for object
creation and editing.

Can anybody out there suggest a means for automatically editing the
staging file to convert from PC to Amiga and back?
Command:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4106 Re: Imagine PC
7/1/93 09:02 18/ [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)
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> Can anybody out there suggest a means for automatically editing the
> staging file to convert from PC to Amiga and back?
>
Not exactly, but you could at least use ISL to decode a staging file into
ASCII, then edit it and make it a stage again.  This is a heck of a lot less
work than working an object at a time...

ISL runs only on the Amiga at this point.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
> [e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161
>
>    "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_john

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4107 Re: Essence II JPEGS
7/1/93 09:05 16/ Wayne Haufler <[e-mail]>
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Thanks for uploading the Essence II JPEGs, Steve.
Very, very impressive!
Man, do I have plans for many of these textures!
You are releasing Essence II just when I need it. 8-)

I have also been dreaming about what can be done with
Essence Pro; a very powerful tool indeed, it will be!

Thanks again!
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             __
\\ /\\ /\\ //_    Wayne A. Haufler   [Christian/SW Engineer/XWindows/Amigan]
 \/--\// \//__    [e-mail]         McDonnell Douglas-Houston
     //           Hobby:  "Computer Animations For Christian Endeavors"
                  GodlyGraphics mailing list: [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4108 Re: Essence II JPEGS
7/1/93 14:41 16/ Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>
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Wayne Haufler <[e-mail]> writes:
> Thanks for uploading the Essence II JPEGs, Steve.
> Very, very impressive!

I second that, most emphatically!!!

I've only downloaded the Essence II JPEG images but ... they're *beautiful*
*stunning* *mindboggling* *superb* ...  If they were just a set of tileable
textures, they'd be beautiful in their own right, but as algorithmic 3D
textures they're like a dream come true, a flight of fancy turned into
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reality.  Oh, the possibilities!!!

Now, where is that mailman?

 ._.  Udo Schuermann
 ( )  [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4109 Aladdin and Imagine
6/29/93 11:30 29/ [e-mail] (Scot Schneebeli)
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 For those interested in Aladdin I was going to list the +'s and -'s, but
 in the end it comes down to one question:

     Are you making stills or animations?

 Because if you're making stills and want real mirroring or reflectance, well
 don't bother with Aladdin (unless its to make a background pixmap of stellar
 gases, etc).

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 If you're doing animations then its good. Movement hides a multitude of sins.
 Its a lot faster, but it isn't a ray tracer - so no mirror or glass. This can
 be faked and works very well, if you are willing to put forth the effort.

 For a still - let the computer do the work. For an anim - put in a little
 extra work and speed things up in a major way.

 The no glass & mirror and a poor selection method of the palette (for HAM,
 yeah I probably should be rendering 24 bitplane files and convert, that's even
 more work though) is the only real draw back to Aladdin. Some people hate the
Command:
 modeler interface, but it isn't that bad after you get use to it. It has it's
 strengths and weaknesses like everything else.

 I use both Imagine and Aladdin and use images from one in the other. I just
 wish that someone would come up with VR software/hardware to do object
 modeling. I haven't met an interface that I've liked yet.
--
Scot Schneebeli                       <[e-mail]>

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4110 Re: Essence II JPEGS
7/1/93 18:44 5/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        I've only downloaded the Essence II JPEG images but ... they're *beautiful*
        *stunning* *mindboggling* *superb* ...  If they were just a set of tileable
------------------
I wasn't able to get them off the Aminet site..  Do you know where
they might also be?? Like Wuarchive?
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4111 Amiga 3000 IDE interface?
7/1/93 20:24 8/ Fred Crowell <[e-mail]>
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Does anyone know of a good IDE HD interface for the amiga 3000 that has decent
transfer rates?  (Oh, and is fairly cheap).  Thanks in advance and sorry
if you think this doesn't have to do with imagine.
==============================================================================
-- Fred Crowell -- [e-mail] --
==============================================================================


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4112 Re: Essence II JPEGS
7/2/93 09:35 7/ John J Humpal <[e-mail]>
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The Essence II jpegs are in /aminet/pix/misc (or is that /aminet/misc/pix?).
They were on the merlin site, so I'm sure they're at all the others, too.
--
-John

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4113 Essence Faq
7/2/93 11:42 15/ Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>
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As Steve announced it there will be 150 attribute settings for
Essence II on disk, but what about Essence I.

Now I had an idea. What about collecting all "good" attributes
for Essence textures in faq. Everyone in this list can contribute
to this faq. And in one month post this faq back on this list and
everyone gets the whole package !!

I would volunteer to collect the files and post the faq back to
the list.
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What are your opinions ???

Hannes

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4114 Re: 3d Skull needed.
7/2/93 09:03 23/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
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On Tue, 29 Jun 1993, Cliff Lee wrote:
> Hey Imagineers,
> Anyone have a PD model of a skull I can use in Imagine?  Needed for a
> dungeon scene under construction.  I am using the PC version.

I don't have a skull model, but I have got a bunch of other D&D type
objects, all created at 1 unit=1 cm scale:

sword, iron-bound wooden chest, torch with wall sconce, table, altar,
jeweled goblet, spellbook(open), ironbound arched oak door w/doorframe,
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tiled rough stone wall brushmap, arched stone window openings, tiled wood
floorboard brushmap, mage's retorts, beakers & bottles, barrel, etc.

If any of this sounds useful, let me know and I'll upload the files.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4115 D&D Objects (Long Post Warning!!!)
7/2/93 15:22 115/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
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By popular demand (OK, so only a few people asked--for me, that's
popular!) I have uploaded a selection of Dungeons&Dragons-themed Imagine
objects to wuarchive.wustl.edu/pub/amiga/incoming, in a file named
DAKDUNGN.LZH.  Uncompressed, it's almost a full diskette.  Here's the text
of the DAKDUNGN.README file:


This is a collection of objects I've created with Imagine
2.0 and Imagine PC over the past few months, all with the
theme of Dungeons&Dragons.  I'm an active gamer, and a DM
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friend of mine wants to be able to hand players a picture
of what they "see."  I hope these will help you create your
own dungeons (or whatever). Enjoy!

These objects are not copyrighted, but I would appreciate
credit if you use any of them in a commercial or widely-
distributed product.  Please keep this readme file with the
objects.

All objects are created to a scale of 1 unit=1 centimeter,
Command:
as near as I could manage.  I've also included two very
useful original brushmaps, one of a tongue-and-groove
wooden floor, and one of a rough gray stone block/brick
that works well as a combined altitude and color map on
dungeon walls.

T&G3     TIF     68538 06-01-93   4:12p   floorboards;
tileable

BRICKGRY TIF     24198 05-17-93   1:03p   walls; tileable
Command:

BARREL3  GRP     48424 06-07-93   7:41a   an 18-stave
barrel; play with the wood texture values to get different
grain in each stave.

BOOK     GRP      7756 06-01-93   6:33p   a spell book.
Wrap your own brushmaps onto the pages.  Don't change the
Phong settings, or the page edges will go all soft.

BRAZIER  GRP     74516 05-19-93   3:26p   Charcoal-filled
Command:
brazier

FLASK    GRP     15436 07-02-93   8:05a   Conical glass
flask, with rubber stopper.  Stopper is also usable on the
bottle.

CANDLELT GRP     10656 06-30-93   1:26p   A candle, wick,
flame, and lightsource.

CHESTSMA GRP     14292 05-31-93   6:05p   Small ironbound
Command:
wooden chest

CNDLABRA GRP     39174 07-01-93  12:26p   Iron candelabra,
three candles

GOBLET&G GRP     28488 05-14-93   6:37p   Gold 9-sided
goblet with gemstones

RETORT   GRP     46504 07-01-93   6:38p   Chemist's retort
& steel tripod
Command:

ROOMOCT3 GRP    157410 05-31-93   3:54p   Octagonal room,
with ironbound door and two window openings.  The door
group hinges correctly to close & open.

SWORDSTE GRP     10952 05-31-93   5:19p   A steel sword
with gold&wood hilt

TORCH&SC GRP     13814 05-14-93   6:38p   Torch and iron
wall sconce
Command:

TORCHAND GRP      6020 07-02-93  12:22p   Torch grouped for
camera tracking: set your camera size to 320,160,233 at
~170 units above the floor, place this group's axis at the
same location as the camera, and the torch will appear as
if carried in the viewer's right hand.  Assign the
torchand.grp to the same paths and alignments as the
camera, and it will hold this position during dungeon walk-
throughs.  I've got a forearm from Cycleman holding the
torch in my renderings, but I couldn't legally upload that
Command:
version.

TRIPBRAZ GRP     37608 05-28-93   8:35a   A tripod of
sticks, bound with a rawhide wrapping, holding a terracotta
bowl.  Intended as alternate brazier.

ALTAR    IOB      1312 05-31-93   4:30p   Simple altar,
modified from table

BEAKER   IOB     13206 07-01-93   5:41p   Basic chemist's
Command:
beaker

BOTTLE2  IOB     23502 07-02-93   7:56a   Simple wine
bottle
STARGOLD IOB      1362 05-14-93   6:39p   Pentacle.  Can
you figure out how to make a star of any number of points?
Hint: use SKIN function.

TABLE    IOB      2370 05-14-93   6:37p   Simple table,
modeled after one my computer sits on.
Command:

LIONSHIE GRP     46822 07-02-93  12:21p   Wooden shield
with iron rim and studs, lion's head bolster
       22 file(s)     692360 bytes total

I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who finds these useful.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161
Command:

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4116 U.S. Capital Buildings
7/2/93 15:47 11/ Wayne Haufler <[e-mail]>
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I am looking for models of the U.S. Capital Building with Dome
and the White House.  Does anyone know if they are available
and where?

Thank you,

             __
\\ /\\ /\\ //_    Wayne A. Haufler   [Christian/SW Engineer/XWindows/Amigan]
 \/--\// \//__    [e-mail]         McDonnell Douglas-Houston
     //           Hobby:  "Computer Animations For Christian Endeavors"
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                  GodlyGraphics mailing list: [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4117 Re: U.S. Capital Buildings
7/2/93 18:07 6/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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I will make one if you make the Clinton object... Then I can
morph clinton and make it look like I am pounding the capitol
building on his head.. Or how about a animation where you see
Clinton getting shot head first from the whitehouse...

>8-)
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4118 Re: D&D Objects (Long Post Warning!!!)
7/2/93 18:04 1/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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Thanks for uploading that D&D stuff...
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4119 Re: Essence Faq
7/2/93 20:28 19/ Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>
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> Now I had an idea. What about collecting all "good" attributes
> for Essence textures in faq. Everyone in this list can contribute
> to this faq. And in one month post this faq back on this list and
> everyone gets the whole package !!
>
> I would volunteer to collect the files and post the faq back to
> the list.

Hey- let's go one step further. why not put an essence directory on the
imagine landfill where folks can upload their best settings. The files would
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be tiny (an axis w/attributes intact would suffice) and there would
be no chance of error while setting your attributes. Not tto mention the
convenience of just Loading in a set of attributes versus setting them
manually.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
                    | why would he be such a jerk? i know that he doesn't smoke
steve lombardi      | drugs. and he doesn't do cocaine. and he doesn't shoot
[e-mail] | smack. and he doesn't even drink beer. Why would he be
                    | such a fu*ker to me? --WEEN
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4120 Essence FAQ
7/3/93 02:32 21/ [e-mail] (Heberle H.)
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------- Forwarded Message of Hannes Heckner ----------------
As Steve announced it there will be 150 attribute settings for
Essence II on disk, but what about Essence I.

Now I had an idea. What about collecting all "good" attributes
for Essence textures in faq. Everyone in this list can contribute
to this faq. And in one month post this faq back on this list and
everyone gets the whole package !!

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I would volunteer to collect the files and post the faq back to
the list.

What are your opinions ???

Hannes
------- End of Forwarded Message -----------

I think this is a good idea. Let's start with a FAQ about Essence.
Horst
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4121 Floating Essence and...
7/3/93 10:53 20/ Harvey Weinman <[e-mail]>
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hi folks

A couple of things I've run into lately. I would really apprecciate some
discussion, comment, hints, tips, sage advice, dire warnings.......

1-      I've been trying to add mood to some of my renderings by applying
        Essence textures to transparent objects (mostly simple, 2 triangle
        planes). I leave all object attribute settings at their default
        values  except color > 0,0,0 and filter > 255,255,255.
        My objects do indeed become invisible, but so do any textures
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        that I apply to them. I thought that textures were applied on top
        of object color, No?

2-      I seem to remember, from some place, that when you assign an
        object to function as a light soure, that  an iff image mapped
        onto it can be projected onto other objects. I haven't been able
        to make this happen. Did I halucinate this? Am I trying to turn
        lead into gold or is this really possible?

                Thanks       Harvey Weinman          [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4122 AAP_AAC, Anybody have it working?
7/4/93 12:41 8/ [e-mail]
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Has anybody gotten the Anim building/separating/playing package AAC_AAP
to function correctly? I can view the demo script fine but ANYTHING I
try to do on my own brings a guru!

Any hints?

Don DeCosta
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4123 RE: Floating Essence and...
7/4/93 10:58 17/ [e-mail] (Marcelino A Vilaubi)
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>       that I apply to them. I thought that textures were applied on top
>       of object color, No?

On top of color yes, but the filter value will determine the transparency
regardless of the texture.

> 2-    I seem to remember, from some place, that when you assign an
>       object to function as a light soure, that  an iff image mapped
>       onto it can be projected onto other objects. I haven't been able

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This is possible, only if you have an old copy of Turbo Silver sitting
around.

--
Marcelino Vilaubi
[e-mail]      [e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4124 Sunny Sundays like this one
7/4/93 07:12 7/ [e-mail] (Heberle H.)
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Hi all out there,

is there no discussion about Imagine, Essence etc. on sunny sundays
like this one? But I understand, if there is nobody working and playing
with some computers. This is only for grazy people like me.
Horst
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4125 Re: Essence II JPEGS
7/4/93 13:02 41/ [e-mail] (Philippe Berard)
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Hello Steve (Steve Worley). On Jun 30, you have written :

> I logged in this morning, and my mailbox was packed with email about
> the pictures. :-) Let me answer some of the questions asked....

    Thanks Steve, these pictures are impressive, as is the newsletter and
    all of the work you (and Greg) have done !

    You'll get my money for the second package as soon as I (or the french
    post-office ;-) ) can.
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    But I wanted to suggest 2 things to be added in your software production
    machinery's program :

        - a 2D Texture generation program, like the one existing for Adobe
          PhotoShop (XTextures). This should allow us to generate some really
          nice textures which could be mapped in programs which don't support
          Essence (well, everything except Imagine, I think ! ;-) ). It
          should work this way : you select the texture you need (wood, clouds,
          fire, etc...), then you modify its parameters, you give the width
Command:
          and height of the picture you would like to generate, and then press
          one the "GO!" gadget :-)

          A (quite) real-time rendering pre-view window should be present, too.

        - a front-end program to the Essence packages which would allow you to
          modify the parameters of a texture, and see it render in a preview
          window. Being able to view the result of a multi-textured object
          should be useful too. This program should even be able to generate
          an anim of a morphing texture.
Command:

    That's all for today, keep your hands on the good work, Steve !

    Best regards,
                                   -- Philippe

.----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
|  Philippe Berard  (French Amiga User)       | UseNet : [e-mail] |
|  "They hold a cup of wisdom,                | -> Please don't send mails   |
|   But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). |           >50 Ko !           |
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`----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4126 Re: Sunny Sundays like this one
7/4/93 16:38 24/ [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)
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>
>Hi all out there,
>
>is there no discussion about Imagine, Essence etc. on sunny sundays
>like this one? But I understand, if there is nobody working and playing
>with some computers. This is only for grazy people like me.


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     Well, I'm sitting here compositing skywriting (fog object and grow)
over VistaPro backgrounds. I wonder if I could put some essence textures
over the object as it grows? Hmmmmm. It's a sunny day out here (an island
in the north Pacific) so I'll just let SENTRY do my dirty work and go hit
the local outdoor coffee shop......... Perhaps I'll read the latest
Amigaworld and catch some rays. My firstborn for a color Amiga laptop ;-).

                                       Christopher


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--
This Way Lies Madness..........                 [e-mail]
(512k A1000, a TV and one floppy ;-).           Fido: 1:340/43, 1:134/92
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4127 Re: Floating Essence and...
7/4/93 17:39 31/ John J Humpal <[e-mail]>
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Harvey Weinman writes:
>
> 1-    I've been trying to add mood to some of my renderings by applying
>       Essence textures to transparent objects (mostly simple, 2 triangle
>       planes). I leave all object attribute settings at their default
>       values  except color > 0,0,0 and filter > 255,255,255.
>       My objects do indeed become invisible, but so do any textures
>       that I apply to them. I thought that textures were applied on top
>       of object color, No?

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        No.  A transparent object is, er, transparent.  What are you
trying to accomplish?  You could try making your objects somewhat
less than fully transparent, or use the fractal(s)reflect and/or
turb(s)reflect textures, or a combination.

> 2-    I seem to remember, from some place, that when you assign an
>       object to function as a light soure, that  an iff image mapped
>       onto it can be projected onto other objects. I haven't been able
>       to make this happen. Did I halucinate this? Am I trying to turn
>       lead into gold or is this really possible?
Command:

        You're not hallucinating, it's only a flashback.  Turbo Silver
did this, but for some reason Impulse took it out of Imagine.  I seem
to remember a newsletter of a couple of years ago mentioning that
they were "thinking about" putting this function back in, but I haven't
heard anything since.
--
-John

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4128 AAP_AAC, Anybody have it working?
7/4/93 20:54 11/ Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] asks:
> Has anybody gotten the Anim building/separating/playing package AAC_AAP
> to function correctly? I can view the demo script fine but ANYTHING I
> try to do on my own brings a guru!

All I can say is that it is working well on my 2000 w/68030.  I use the
32-bit ANIM7 format (-a4 parameter) to build the anims; I don't know if
that makes any difference.

 ._.  Udo Schuermann       "Waiting for Essence II to appear on my doorstep"
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 ( )  [e-mail]    :)
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4129 Foggy Sundays like this one
7/4/93 21:47 17/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
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Actually, it's remarkably clear in San Francisco this Fourth of July!
(Traditionally, the fireworks are obscured by banks of fog.)  But I
digress...


>      Well, I'm sitting here compositing skywriting (fog object and grow)
> over VistaPro backgrounds. [etc...]

Are you using the actual Imagine 'background' function?  Is is working
for you???  Everytime I use a background bitmap, the fog totally
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disappears.  It's fine if I map the pic onto an actual object, but
that's a pain in the *ss.  Please tell me you've found a workaround for
this bug!

-== Happy 4th!  Celebrate independence wherever you are! ==--
--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4130 Re: Foggy Sundays like this one
7/5/93 01:01 28/ [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)
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-----
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text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----


>Actually, it's remarkably clear in San Francisco this Fourth of July!
>(Traditionally, the fireworks are obscured by banks of fog.)  But I
>digress...

     We celebrate the first of July with fireworks. Sounds like a clear
night was had by all ;-).

>Are you using the actual Imagine 'background' function?  Is is working
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>for you???  Everytime I use a background bitmap, the fog totally
>disappears.  It's fine if I map the pic onto an actual object, but
>that's a pain in the *ss.  Please tell me you've found a workaround for
>this bug!

     As soon as I discovered the "same resolution" restriction for
backdrops, I never touched it again. I use ADPro's Sentry and FRED
utilities to automate all my post-processing and anim building. It's worth
a look if you don't yet have them (doubt that).

Command:

                                             Christopher



--
This Way Lies Madness..........                 [e-mail]
(512k A1000, a TV and one floppy ;-).           Fido: 1:340/43, 1:134/92
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4131 More weird stuff on Essence I :)
7/5/93 00:35 16/ [e-mail] (Michael Linton)
Lines 1 to 10 of 16 (62%)
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move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Whelp, here's one... I can't seem to get Essence textures, to properly
"apply to children" objects.  I've tried several, but none of the
textures will work.  Yes, I am applying the texture to the parent object.
:) But, when I render the object, only the parent object has the texture,
and none of the children objects.   And, I AM clicking on "Apply to
children" in the settings requestor for the object...  Comments anyone?
:)


------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  "...even the stuff you taught me, has been pushed back into the dark
recesses of my mind...  Need a candle or two (rendered of course, as
my light source) to find all that buried info again..."

                      -- Barb Hall on learning Imagine

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4132 Re: 3d Skull needed.
7/5/93 06:26 22/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

On Fri, 2 Jul 1993, Doug Kelly wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Jun 1993, Cliff Lee wrote:
>
> I don't have a skull model, but I have got a bunch of other D&D type
> objects, all created at 1 unit=1 cm scale:
>
> sword, iron-bound wooden chest, torch with wall sconce, table, altar,
> jeweled goblet, spellbook(open), ironbound arched oak door w/doorframe,
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> tiled rough stone wall brushmap, arched stone window openings, tiled wood
> floorboard brushmap, mage's retorts, beakers & bottles, barrel, etc.
>
> If any of this sounds useful, let me know and I'll upload the files.

Please upload them if you can.

Nik.
[e-mail]

Command:


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4133 Re: help me make dry mud. Please!
7/5/93 06:05 25/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

On Wed, 30 Jun 1993, Brian Ridout wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>       I give up!  I need some help with making a dry lake bed.
> If my assumption is correct a lake bed is made of of cracks which
> are ruff polygons.  Right??  I haven't been able to think of a way
> to make this.  I have tried using Essence texture blobc.  It looks
> ok but not exactly what I am after.  I really don't want to resort
-----
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Command:
> to a hand drawn brush map.  Any help would be appreciated.
>
I think that the best result would be to use some kind of an altitude brush.
Louis Markoya's Map Master comes to mind. It has a few brushes that
would be ideal. In fact a friend here has done cracked earth using these.
If you can't get hold of this texture set, you could have a go at it
yourself.

Hope this is of some help...

Command:
Nik.
[e-mail]



Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4134 Re: Essence II JPEGS
7/5/93 06:23 16/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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-----

On Thu, 1 Jul 1993, AIDE Kiernan wrote:

>       I've only downloaded the Essence II JPEG images but ... they're *beautiful*
>       *stunning* *mindboggling* *superb* ...  If they were just a set of tileable
> ------------------
> I wasn't able to get them off the Aminet site..  Do you know where
> they might also be?? Like Wuarchive?

I just got them off merlin.etsu.edu  from the aminet area.
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[e-mail]
Nik.



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4135 Re: Essence Faq
7/5/93 06:28 25/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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-----

On Fri, 2 Jul 1993, Hannes Heckner wrote:

> As Steve announced it there will be 150 attribute settings for
> Essence II on disk, but what about Essence I.
>
> Now I had an idea. What about collecting all "good" attributes
> for Essence textures in faq. Everyone in this list can contribute
> to this faq. And in one month post this faq back on this list and
> everyone gets the whole package !!
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>
> I would volunteer to collect the files and post the faq back to
> the list.
>
> What are your opinions ???
>

I agree with you. I'll be using essence quite a bit over the next couple
of weeks and will post all the settings I find useful.

Command:
Nik.
[e-mail]



Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4136 Re: NIR : RPL (was Re: Apex)
7/5/93 12:19 18/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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            interpreted language, or the shouldn't Steve and Glenn do an ARexx
            version of their textures ? :-) ).
-------------
I didn't think anyone ever compiled shaders in renderman, they are just part
of the input..
-------------
            By the way, doing their textures in RPL would allow us to look at their
            code, which I'm sure they wouldn't want !? :^)
-------------
Naw... I don't think it would be that hard for them to have
-----
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thier texturing information coexist with thier textual texturing information..
Just create a binary and textual format.. They can even password/key
protect the files so that they would be encrypted in such a way that
it would be impossible to decode them unless you had executed and debugged
the binary code to determine what key/password they were using..
I think there is more than one way to keep others from figuring your
code out... Some people just don't feel they have to put that much protection
in thier software.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4137 Imagine FAQ #3 - 7/5/1993
7/5/93 12:26 994/ RenderStud! <[e-mail]>
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+======================================================================+
|                         Imagine Mailing List                         |
|                      FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS                      |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                             Compiled By                              |
|                           Michael B. Comet                           |
|                              Steve Mund                              |
|                            Mark Oldfield                             |
|                             Dave Wickard                             |
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+======================================================================+

        This is the Frequently Asked Questions posting for the Imagine
Mailing list.  This posting is sent every so often to answer general
questions that users of the 3D rendering software, Imagine by Impulse
Inc. may have.  It is aimed toward all users, especially newcomers to
the program.

        If you find any errors or have answers to other frequently asked
questions that you would like to have included in this posting, please
Command:
send e-mail to: [e-mail] (FAQ List).

        - Mike C.

========================================================================

Last Update   : July 5, 1993 Monday
Issue Number  : 3
What's New    : New format!  Nice sections for easier searching!
                Number 9 in the Detail Editor section. (Sect 2)
Command:
                New (small) section on Essence attributes! (Sect 7)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

CONTENTS:
=========

    SECTION 1 - Support Products/Sites
             1] Imagine related: References/Help Books/Magzines/ftp sites.
         2] How do I reach Impulse?
Command:
         3] What is the Imagine Mailing List and how to get it?

    SECTION 2 - Modeling and Detail Editor
         1] How do I brushmap a ground plane?
         2] How do I make glass?
         3] The Slice command doesn't work or gives me errors.
         4] How can I make a room so that the walls don't have cracks?
         5] When I select a group of points in the DETAIL editor, all I
            can do is drag them...not ROTATE or SCALE interactively.
         6] List of common Index of Refractions
Command:
         7] How do you make mirrors?
         8] How do I make "metals" and what are some good gold
               attributes?
         9] Is there a quick way to add faces to my object without
            using the Slice command?

    SECTION 3 - Forms Editor
         1] After a Forms Editor object is loaded into the Detail Editor
            and manipulated, it won't reload into the Forms Editor.

Command:
    SECTION 4 - Cycle Editor
         1] I made this animation sequence in the Cycle editor, but when
                I set it up in the stage/action editors, the motion of the
                overall object isn't there!

    SECTION 5 - Animation, Stage Editor and Action Editor
         1] Even though I move an Object/Camera/Light to a new
            POSITION/ALIGNMENT/SIZE in the STAGE editor, Imagine seems
            to 'forget' what I did!
         2] How do I use the Grow Effect?
Command:
         3] How do I use the Tumble Effect?
             4] How do you get something to roll (at the right speed!) while
                following a path?
         5] When I move a Tracked Camera in the STAGE editor, it doesn't
            realign and draw the Perspective view correctly!
             6] When I increase the number of frames in an animation I find
                my scene gets mangled in the first frame.  Why?

    SECTION 6 - Rendering and the Project Editor
             1] Why do objects render fine in Scanline, but disappear in
Command:
                Trace?
         2] I have a problem with Filtered objects/fog and the Global
                Backdrop!
         3] My animation frames look fine, but when animated, they have
            the "crawly" effect.
             4] What situations, parameters, attribute values, etc. require
                the most trace rendering time?
         5] How do I get rid of the "Jaggies?"
         6] How can I figure out pixel aspect for a given resolution?
             7] When making a disco ball effect, will a SPHERICAL light set
Command:
                at 255 be bright enough to cause visible spots on the
                surfaces in a scene?
         8] How long should it take to do a full trace picture with
                perhaps one transparent glass on a Amiga 3000/25? Is 4.5 hrs
            too much?
         9] Is there any particular format that Imagine prefers?  Ham?
            32 Color?  EHB?  24 bit 1000 x 1000?

    SECTION 7 - Essence Settings
         1] Electrical Arc
Command:
         2] Veined Marble
         3] Rough marble/rock

    SECTION 8 - Miscellaneous
         1] What the heck is BTW, IMO and other weird abbreviations...
         2] Rendering and refresh times are MUCH too slow, even with an
            accelerator. Are there any Basic tricks or hints to help?
         3] How long will before my renderings aren't ugly anymore?

    CLOSING - Closing statements and Disclaimer
Command:

========================================================================
                   SECTION 1 - Support Products/Sites
========================================================================

1] Imagine related: References/Help Books/Magzines/ftp sites.

  REFERENCES AND HELP BOOKS:

    "Imagine 2.0 User Manual", Impulse Inc, 1992.
Command:
                   (Yes....read the manual!)

    "The Imagine Companion", David Duberman, Motion Blur Publishing,
         1991

    "Understanding Imagine 2.0", Steven Worley, Apex Software
         Publishing, 1992.

  MAGAZINES:

Command:
    These are some good graphics magazines, most of which focus on the
Amiga computer.  If anyone has some other suggestions please post them
to the FAQ list!

        "Computer Graphics World"
        P.O Box 122
        Tulsa, OK 74101-9845
        (800) 443 - 6632
        (918) 835 - 3161 ext. 400
        (918) 831 - 9497 (FAX)
Command:
                (A general computer graphics magazine focusing on the
        latest technology from PC's to SGI's)

        "Amiga World"
        P.O Box 595
        Mt Morris, IL 61054-7900
        (800) 827 - 0877
        (815) 734 - 1109
                (A general Amiga computer magazine, focusing on both
        hardware, software, utilities and graphics)
Command:

        "Amiga Video/Graphics Magazine"  (formerly AVID)
        365 Victor Street
        Suite "H"
        Salinas, CA 93907
        (408) 758 - 9386
        (408) 758 - 1744 (FAX)
                (A general Amiga computer magazine, focusing on both
        hardware, software, utilities and graphics)

Command:
        "Video Toaster User"
        21611 Stevens Creek Blvd.
        Cupertino, CA 95014
        (800) 322 - 2834
                (A magazine focusing specifically on NewTeks Video
        Toaster device.  Nothing related to Imagine, but some more neat
        pictures to look at!)

  FTP SITES:

Command:
        There is now a new ftp site set up for Imagine related items
including pictures, animations, tutorials, objects, and help files such
as previous postings from the list, and this FAQ at:

        wuarchive.wustl.edu
        in the  /pub/amiga/incoming/imagine  directory.

        Under this directory are the following sub-directories:
                art
                archive
Command:
                anims
                objects

------------------------------------------------------------------------

2] How do I reach Impulse?

    Impulse Inc.
    8416 Xerxes ave. North
    Brooklyn Park, Minnesota 55444
Command:
    USA

    [phone]
    [phone]
    FAX: [phone]

------------------------------------------------------------------------

3] What is the Imagine Mailing List and how to get it

Command:
    (From the Imagine Mailing List Sysop, Dave Wickard)

        The Imagine Mailing List is a wide variety of Amiga computer
artists sharing friendship and knowledge. The main thrust of the List is
the Imagine renderer. Subjects discussed though have varied widely.
There are discussions of Imagine and it's competitors, Imagine wish
lists for future versions, 3D rendering principles in general, single
frame recording techniques and many more.

        With first day users thru battled scarred veterans  :-)  there
Command:
is someone at your level of knowledge on the List. We are always glad to
see questions from every level of user. So often a simple and seemingly
embarrassingly easy question will lead to an interesting comment on a
related topic.

    New products, both hardware AND software, are discussed as to their
relationship with Imagine and Amiga 3D rendering.

    Names of Amiga luminaries dot the list, and often join in to lend
their insights without the usual "noise" of a USENET newsgroup.
Command:

    There are over 300 individual sites receiving the Imagine Mailing
List, and they include many networks, BBS systems, user groups, and
individual computer artists from literally around the globe.  We share
one thing.  Interest in each other's work with Imagine.

    YOU can get the Imagine Mailing List. All you need is access to
Internet mail. Simply mail to the following address:

         [e-mail]
Command:

and in your subject line, enter the word "subscribe".

    If you are reading this from a Commercial System, ask the
Amiga Coordinator to set up an Imagine Mailing List area that
everyone can read.

========================================================================
                  SECTION 2 - Modeling and Detail Editor
========================================================================
Command:

1] How do I brushmap a ground plane?

    The problem with brushmapping a ground plane is that the ground
itself is off 90 degrees in relation to its' axis for proper brush
placement.  (Add a primitive plane, a ground and compare them).  The
following will properly set a ground wrap:

         1) Add a ground object, select it, go into attributes, select a
            brush to use.
Command:
         2) You will now be in a requestor for the type of brushmap and
            placement etc...
         3) Select TRANSFORM AXIS
         4) Click on ALIGNMENT and set X = -90.  Leave Y and Z at 0
         5) Click on SIZE and leave X = +640.  Set Y = +2, Z = +400
         6) Click on POSITION and Leave X = -320, Y = -200. Set Z = +1
         7) Click on PERFORM.
         8) If you want the brushmap to repeat forever click REPEAT.
         9) Click OKAY.

Command:
        Your brushmap will now be placed correctly.  You can of course
resize it on the X/Z axis if you wish for scaling purposes.

        Basically step 4 re-rotated the brush axis properly and 5 and 6
fixed the size and position which Imagine screws up since it thinks it's
brushmapping on the other axis.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

2] How do I make glass?
Command:

        You can use the following Attribute setting for a default glass:

                   RED  GREEN  BLUE   VALUE
    COLOR          0    0      0      *
    REFLECT        0    0      0      *
    FILTER         255  255    255    *
    SPECULAR       255  255    255    *
    DITHERING      *    *      *      255
    HARDNESS       *    *      *      255
Command:
    ROUGHNESS      *    *      *      0
    SHININESS      *    *      *      0     (Very important see below!)

    PHONG = ON
    INDEX = 1.50
    FOG LENGTH = 0.00

    This should give you glass.

    One thing many people get confused by is:
Command:

         1) Shininess must be set to ZERO.  If you set this to anything
            but 0, the FILTER setting will not work.  This is just the
            way Imagine works since FILTER usage assumes shininess
            automatically.
         2) No background.  To get glass, you need surroundings.  If you
            render a glass cup on a pure black screen, you'll probably
            just see the highlights.  Adding global colors for Scanline
            and Ray Trace will give your object something to refract.
         3) Ray Trace.  To get refraction of surrounding objects
Command:
            exactly, you need to Trace, though scanline WILL approximate
            refractivity.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

3] The Slice command doesn't work or gives me errors.

    Due to the complexity of doing a 3D slice, sometimes Imagine gives
errors, or actually crashes during this operation.

Command:
    Things to do if you plan on using this function are:

         1) Save _ALL_ currently loaded object BEFORE trying to slice.
         2) If you get an error, move one of the objects slightly and
            try again.  Moving one of them may yield a working slice.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

4] I'm making a house which has many rooms and thus many walls, what is
    the best way of adding walls to the house so that they leave no
Command:
    cracks in the corners ?

        Three possible methods ---

        1. You can design your walls to be nice dimensions like 100
           or 1024 instead of 383.38. Place your axis at the corner
           of each wall. Then, to get seamless joints, use "snap to
           grid" in the project editor which will instantly adjust
           your walls to a perfect fit (If wall lengths are multiples
           of the grid line spacing).
Command:

        2. Create a 2D outline of the floorplan and extrude it up.
           Then simply pop a ceiling and floor on it.  The floorplan
           could be created either in Imagine or even a paint program
           and then auto-traced.  This means you will have to bust up
           a few polygons to add the windows and doors, but that is a
           minor task if you have a complex floorplan.

        3. A cheesy option is to make your walls too big. Then
          INTERSECT them. You get a mess BEHIND the wall, but if you
Command:
          don't look there, you'll never see it.


      wall 1           |
     ------------------+--
               \|/     |
      bug-eyed O.O     | wall 2
        monster v
                       |
                       |
Command:
      camera X

------------------------------------------------------------------------

5] When I select a group of points in the DETAIL editor, all I can do
   is drag them... it doesn't let me ROTATE or SCALE that clump of
   selected points.

        Imagine will let you move selected points, as well as rotate
and scale them. The limitation is that you cannot do this interactively
Command:
in Version 1.1 or earlier by using the mouse: The Transform command does
the manipulation. The picked points can be translated, scaled, rotated,
and positioned INDEPENDENTLY of the rest of the object. Rotations and
scalings all use the object's axis a reference point.  Absolute
positioning will move the FIRST point you pick to the location you
choose, and the rest of the picked points will be translated an equal
amount.  Interactive dragging is accomplished using the "drag points"
mode.

        Note: Versions 2.0 and later support interactive point editing.
Command:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

6] List of common Index of Refractions (and not so common too!)

         (All items except Vacuum are in alphabetical order)
         (STP = Standard Temperature and Pressure)

         MATERIAL                      Index
         -------------------------------------
Command:
         Vacuum ...................... 1.00000 (exactly)

         Air (STP).................... 1.00029
         Acetone ..................... 1.36
         Alcohol ..................... 1.329
         Amorphous Selenium .......... 2.92
         Calspar1 .................... 1.66
         Calspar2 .................... 1.486
         Carbon Disulfide ............ 1.63
         Chromium Oxide .............. 2.705
Command:
         Copper Oxide ................ 2.705
         Crown Glass ................. 1.52
         Crystal ..................... 2.00
         Diamond ..................... 2.417
         Emerald ..................... 1.57
         Ethyl Alcohol ............... 1.36
         Flourite .................... 1.434
         Fused Quartz ................ 1.46
         Heaviest Flint Glass ........ 1.89
         Heavy Flint Glass ........... 1.65
Command:
         Glass ....................... 1.5
         Ice ......................... 1.309
         Iodine Crystal .............. 3.34
         Lapis Lazuli ................ 1.61
         Light Flint Glass ........... 1.575
         Liquid Carbon Dioxide ....... 1.20
         Polystyrene ................. 1.55
         Quartz 1 .................... 1.644
         Quartz 2 .................... 1.553
         Ruby ........................ 1.77
Command:
         Sapphire .................... 1.77
         Sodium Chloride (Salt) 1 .... 1.544
         Sodium Chloride (Salt) 2 .... 1.644
         Sugar Solution (30%) ........ 1.38
         Sugar Solution (80%) ........ 1.49
         Topaz ....................... 1.61
         Water (20 C) ................ 1.333
         Zinc Crown Glass ............ 1.517

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Command:

7] How do you make mirrors?

        The trick with mirrors (or especially chrome-like objects) is
not setting the attributes of the mirror correctly, but making sure that
the environment is set up so something will be reflected into the
camera.

        If a mirror is TOO reflective, the mirror can actually become
invisible!  This is because the mirror's own flat glass/metal flat
Command:
coloring is overwhelmed by all the reflected light.  You see a PERFECT
reflected image, so the object itself isn't shown.  This is especially
true with flat mirrors.

        Some attributes that give a nice mirror polish:

                       RED  GREEN  BLUE   VALUE
        COLOR          150  150    150    *
        REFLECT        200  200    210    *     (a bit of a blue tint)
        FILTER         0    0      0      *
Command:
        SPECULAR       255  255    255    *
        DITHERING      *    *      *      255
        HARDNESS       *    *      *      255
        ROUGHNESS      *    *      *      0
        SHININESS      *    *      *      0

        PHONG = ON
        INDEX = 1.00
        FOG LENGTH = 0.00

Command:
------------------------------------------------------------------------

8] How do I make "metals" and what are some good gold attributes?

        One thing you can do to make your objects look more like metal
is to give them a specular setting close to the main color of the
object, but higher in intensity.  One mistake is to often make the
specular a pure white.  This makes objects look more like plastic than
metal.  For example, if you are trying to make gold, don't make the
specular pure white, but try a bright yellow or yellow/orange creame
Command:
color.

        Another problem is that many metals reflect the world.  For
example a chrome ball is pretty much just a shiny mirror.  Thus, if you
want to make realistic metals you will need to at least simulate
reflection. This can be done by adding a global reflect map, doing a
true ray trace or even just setting sky colors in the stage editor.


        You can use the following Attribute setting for a default gold:
Command:

                       RED  GREEN  BLUE   VALUE
        COLOR          205  205    80     *
        REFLECT        180  160    125    *
        FILTER         0    0      0      *
        SPECULAR       255  255    160    *
        DITHERING      *    *      *      255
        HARDNESS       *    *      *      255
        ROUGHNESS      *    *      *      0
        SHININESS      *    *      *      0
Command:

        PHONG = ON
        INDEX = 1.00
        FOG LENGTH = 0.00

        This should give you something close to gold.  Note that the
reflect values are fairly high.  You may wish to lower them to see how
it would look if you don't have anything to reflect etc...

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Command:

9] Is there a quick way to add faces to my object without using the
   Slice command?

        Here is a neat trick to add faces.  This method works best with
an object that is basially concave (such as a circle).

        1] Make the outline of your object, i.e.: points and edges.
        2] Extrude the object a distance away.
        3] Pick all the points that were just made...i.e.: The ones
Command:
           that now comprise the back face.  Using Bounding box
           selection would probably be helpful.
        4] Choose Join!
        5] Translate the now 1 pt back on the Y axis by the distance
           you extruded from, and position the point somewhere in the
           center of the object.

        The object is now a solid faced object with all faces connected
to one point on the center, just like the primitive disk object.

Command:
========================================================================
                       SECTION 3 - Forms Editor
========================================================================

1] I was working in the forms editor on an object, and loaded it
    into the detail editor for modification.  However, I can't seem
    to be able to get it back into the forms editor!  Help!

        Simply put, you cannot load objects saved from the detail editor
back into the forms editor.  The reason is the forms editor requires
Command:
a specified object structure which the detail does not.  Thus, saving
an object in the detail editor loses that information.

        When you work with the forms editor is recommended that you keep
a spare copy of the FORMS OBJECT saved separately from any detail
object. In this way you can then go back and make modifications in the
forms editor.

========================================================================
                       SECTION 4 - Cycle Editor
Command:
========================================================================

1] I made this really great animation sequence in the cycle editor,
    but when I set it up in the stage/action editors, the motion of
    the overall object isn't there!

        When using the cycle editor, Imagine only remembers changes in
size, position, and so on in relation to the main parent.  Thus, if you
make a change to the parent object, it gets forgotten.  What this means
is if you make a nifty robot jumping cycle, and make it in the cycle
Command:
editor so the robot actually move up etc... all that will be remembered
is the changes to the legs, arms and anything OFF of the PARENT.  The
overall rotations and movements to the main object will be gone.

        Two solutions exist.  One is to simply make those changes in
the stage editor each time you need to.  The second is to group a plain
axis before you start to your object.  (ie: Make the parent have a Null
link).  Then, you can rotate everything by rotating the main child
grouped right under this null axis.  This way you aren't moving the
"parent", and everything will be remembered.
Command:

========================================================================
          SECTION 5 - Animation, Stage Editor and Action Editor
========================================================================

1] Even though I move an Object/Camera/Light to a new
   POSITION/ALIGNMENT/SIZE in the STAGE editor, Imagine seems to
   'forget' what I did!

    All objects must have timelines split wherever there is a change in
Command:
position, alignment or size.  If you do not set this up, Imagine will
forget the changes no matter what.

    Rather than going back and forth to the ACTION editor and adding
timelines, you can have Imagine automatically create the timelines
properly so everything tweens as normal.  There are the "Position Bar",
"Alignment Bar" and "Size Bar" commands under the OBJECT menu in the
STAGE editor.

    So, if you have just gone to a frame and are making a new POSITION,
Command:
ALIGNMENT or SIZE for an object (or camera or light) to tween to, press
RIGHT AMIGA and 7/8/9 respectively.  Or use the respective bar commands
from the OBJECT menu.  This will extend or put a 'split' in the timeline
for you (you can check this in the ACTION editor).  Also, don't forget
to "Save Changes"if you want to keep the motion!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

2] How do I use the Grow Effect?

Command:
        To use the grow effect, create an object in the DETAIL editor
that you wish to have 'extrude' over time.  Create a spline path as
normal in the detail editor.  This will be the path the object extrudes
along during the animation.

    GROUP (not join) the object with the PATH AS THE PARENT.  If you do
not make the path the parent, it will not work.  To do this, select the
path, then hold shift and select the object, then select group.  Save
your GROUP for loading in the animation.

Command:
    Finally, add the effect in the ACTION editor for the grouped object.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

3] How do I use the Tumble Effect?

    The tumble effect is used to tumble 1 or more objects during an
animation.  To tumble an object, create your object or objects in the
DETAIL editor.  Still in the detail editor add an axis.

Command:
        Group (not join) the AXIS to all the objects you want to tumble
with the AXIS AS THE PARENT.  Then load the GROUP into the STAGE/ACTION
editor and add the effect as normal.

    NOTE: The reason for the null object (axis) as parent is that
Imagine does not TUMBLE the PARENT, just the children.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

4] How do you get something to roll (at the right speed!) while
Command:
   following a path?

        Getting an object to spin (like a plane doing a barrel roll) is
easy- you align to path, then set Y rotation to be from 0 to 360 and it
will do a complete spin. This is not in the right direction for a
rolling ball, though. [Annoying feature- you can't say from 0 to 720 for
two spins, or 0 to 3600 for ten.] To get it to roll I created a second
path, which was basically a larger copy of the first, so the first path
was just inside of the second path. I had an axis (a track) follow this
new, outside path, then used "align to object" to make the sphere point
Command:
to the axis.

        Thus, as the ball moved along its path, one end (the positive Y
axis direction) was always pointed at right angles to the direction of
motion.  Is this clear? Now using the "initial Y angle" and "final Y
angle" I set them to 0 and 360 and it rotated as it rolled. As a special
effect, I raised the "track path" a little in the Z direction so the
sphere looks a little bit like a top rolling around, since the spin axis
was not horizontal anymore.

Command:
        An alternative would be to make a cycle object, rolling around
the X axis.  This is equally valid, but I did it this way first.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

5] When I move a tracked Camera in the STAGE editor, it doesn't realign
   and draw the Perspective view correctly!

    If you have Imagine 2.0 or higher, press RIGHT AMIGA and the K key
together, or select "Camera (Re)track" from the OBJECT menu.  This will
Command:
make the camera repoint to the track from the new position and will
redraw the perspective view.

        If you have an older version of Imagine (or if you just want to)
you can press RIGHT AMIGA and the C key or select "Goto" from the FRAME
menu.  Go to the current frame you are already on which will cause
imagine to redraw everything.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Command:
6] I have found that after creating a scene in the Stage editor, and
    then deciding that I want an animation and adjusting the highest
    frame count, my scene gets mangled in the first frame.  Why?

        Well, it seems to me that this will happen if you don't split
your channel bar from the first frame (where you want stuff to be
exactly) to the second frame. I usually setup my scenes so that I have
the first frame all set as it should be and then I do my transformation
from frames 2-whatever. In this way, the first frame is ALWAYS where
it's suppose to be no matter what changes I make in the remaining
Command:
animation.  If you look at your channel it should have a break between
frames 1 and 2 and then be continuous (if that's the way your animation
works out) from 2 on.

========================================================================
               SECTION 6 - Rendering and the Project Editor
========================================================================

1] Why do objects render fine in Scanline, but disappear in Trace?

Command:
    There are 2 possible causes for this.
         1) You are running out of RAM
         2) You objects are outside of the World Boundary

    To check #1 (for the Amiga), pull down The Project editor after you
start a render during the initialization phase.  Click once on the
Workbench backdrop and you should see how much RAM you have on the top
of the screen.  As Imagine starts to render, this will decrease.  If it
becomes close to 0, chances are, that's your problem.  To solve that,
buy more RAM.
Command:

    The other possibility is that the objects are outside of the world
boundary.  The world boundary is basically a box in which your objects
are placed.  When you enter the STAGE editor, you are placing objects in
this "virtual box" whose center is 0,0,0.

    When you Trace, Imagine clips ALL objects that fall outside of the
box.  The size of the world boundary is set in the ACTION editor.  In
this editor, there should be an item named GLOBALS.  Whatever numbers
are set in the SIZE timeline becomes the size of the box so that it lies
Command:
from +/- Value for X,Y and Z.  The default is no information present,
which Imagine assumes is +/- 1024 units for all 3 coordinates.

        Thus to fix this problem you can:
         1) Scale your entire scene to fit inside the +/- 1024 size
            boundary
         2) Add a size line and set the X,Y,Z to the values you need
            (This can be found by using "coordinates" in the STAGE
            editor and moving the cursor around to find the values)
         3) Add a size line and set the X,Y,Z sizes to 0,0,0.  This will
Command:
            force Imagine to calculate the world size for ALL frames
            based on where objects are for the FIRST frame.  This is
            important since if your objects move farther out during
            subsequent frames, you will have to set the size manually
            (see 2 above) since it will now be outside the computed
            boundary, and thus clipped.

    Note: The world boundary has no effect in Scanline rendering.
    Note: Setting the World Size to 0,0,0 regardless of problems will
          usually DECREASE Trace times!
Command:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

2] I have a problem with Filtered objects and the Global Backdrop!

        For some reason, clear or glass like objects will not be clear
when used with a backdrop.  To get around this render with "genlock sky"
and then use an image processing program to composite the rendered image
onto the background pic for each frame.  Fog objects have a similar
problem.
Command:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

3] I have created an animation (Hurrah!) and when I look at each of
    the individual frames, they look just as I thought they might.
    However, when I animate them, anywhere I have applied the
    "roughness" parameter, surfaces look animated...with lots of
    "crawling" effect on them. What gives?

        Roughness should NOT be used on objects that will be animated.
Command:
(Unless of course, the "crawley" effect is what you're after). This is
caused by a bug in the roughness algorithm. One of the main work-arounds
suggested, is by using a very small or fine bump-map. Another work-
around is to create a DPaint (or for that matter ANY IFF) multi-gray
shaded screen and apply it as an altitude map.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

4] What situations, parameters, attribute values, etc. require the most
    trace rendering time?
Command:

        The list is long: reflections and refractions increase rendering
time significantly, anti-aliasing (0 longest)-BTW this you must edit in
the .config file and resolve depth (also in .config file), number of
polygons, camera position (obliqueness), size of brush maps and even the
numerical entries of solid textures, resolution, display and render
modes etc etc.

        The big ones are refraction, edge level(antialiasing, reflection
(along with "depth") and #of polygons. Pretty well in that order too.
Command:
Remember that a higher refraction index is longer rendering time also.
And yes the scale of the object means a LOT. Imagine uses something
called an *Octree* to calculate the scene.  This is related to the world
size setting which is also discussed here in article number 1 above.
The difference can go from *hours* to minutes, so scale your scene by
the size you make your world.  You can select everything in the scene
(including camera and lights) and scale it interactively.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Command:
5] How do I get rid of the "Jaggies?"

        The .config file for anti-aliasing defaults to 30. This is ok,
but not great. The best is 0 and final rendering should always be 0. So
you must edit this file every so often (before opening Im) or build a
front end on the work bench (requires programming knowledge, though).
BTW, the anti-aliasing is EDLE in .config file.

        {for those unfamiliar with the term jaggies - they refer to the
way lines drawn by computers tend to haved a jagged or stair stepped
Command:
appearance, instead of a smooth continuous line.  This is usually found
more in low resolution images.}

------------------------------------------------------------------------

6] How do I figure out the pixel aspect for a certain resolution
    display?  I am rendering a picture to be displayed on a macII
    at 1024x768.  Does anyone know the formula or is it device
    dependent?

Command:
        Pixel aspect ratio depends both on the aspect ratio of the
display device (your monitor) and the resolution that fits onto that
screen. Most monitors use a 4 x 3 aspect ratio so that to achieve square
1:1 pixels, the resolution must also be 4:3. 1024 x 768 will achieve
this as well as 640 x 480. The Amiga typically uses a non-square aspect
ratio of about 1.2:1 such as 320 x 200, 640 x 400, 768 x 480, etc. So
the pixel ratio can be found using...

  (horiz res. / horiz display size) : (vert res. / vert display size)
If your monitor has a 4:3 aspect, you should have 1:1 pixels.
Command:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

7] When making a disco ball effect, will a SPHERICAL light set at 255
    be bright enough to cause visible spots on the surfaces in a scene?

        No, I bet that a light of 255 won't work too well. So crank
it up to 2000!  Lights are not limited to 255 (It is logical that lights
can be as bright as they want).  Values above 500 or so are pretty
severe; they cast strong shadows, like a very sunny day. Above 3000 or
Command:
so and it looks like you're world is lit by nuclear weapons.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

8] I have a Amiga 3000/25.  How long should it take to do a full
    trace picture with perhaps one transparent (nearly) glass?
    Does 4.5 hours sound reasonable to you?  I am running the
    floating Point version of Imagine.

        The floating point version of Imagine uses inline floating point
Command:
code for maximum speed.  It does not use the libraries.  I suspect that
the non-FP version uses the libraries, just in case. You can probably
SPEED UP your trace time SIGNIFICANTLY by scaling up the whole scene in
the stage editor (see question 4 above!). A trace time of 4.5 hours on a
3000/25 definitely a "wee bit" on the high side for a scene as simple as
you describe.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

9] Is there any particular format that Imagine prefers?  Ham?
Command:
    32 Color?  EHB?  24 bit 1000 x 1000?

        The best is a 24-bit image, of course. Anything works, but the
color range of a 24-bit will beat the tar out of a 16 color any day.
Exceptions would be objects with a few discrete colors, like a red,
white, and blue flag. Then a 24-bit and a 4 color image are equal in
quality. Note that Imagine converts them all to 24-bit internally,
though- the memory goes down equally for a 100 by 100 4-color as it does
for a 100 by 100 24-bit.

Command:
========================================================================
                       SECTION 7 - Essence Settings
========================================================================

1] Electrical Arc

        Here's how to make an electrical arc between two rods, like
something out of Frankenstien's lab.

    1] Start with a plane with 255 R,G,B on Color and a light blue
Command:
       (or whatever color you want the arc to be) in Filter.
    2] Use Ringfract as follows:
         Set the Z axis to point out of the plane, (rotate 90 on X)
         Low Trans Start=30      Low Trans Width=5
         Hi Trans Start =40      Hi Trans Width =5
         Set the color to 0,0,0 for RGB.
         Leave other settings at defaults
       Place the axis of Ringfract in the middle of the bottom edge of
       the plane.
    3] Now use Swapcrf to swap the color and filter values. Do this by
Command:
       setting all parameters to 0, and then setting the following
       values to 1:
         Filt -> N Color = 1
         Refl -> N Refl  = 1
         Color -> N Filt = 1

        Now when rendered, there should be something similar to an
electrical arc (or maybe some sort of plasma).  To have the arc grow,
rotate the Ringfract axis on X up or down so that the plane and cylinder
do not intersect at 90 degrees.  If you animate this it looks like the
Command:
arc gets taller until the arc breaks (i.e. the plane no longer
intersects Ringfract's cylinder in a curve, but instead in two lines).

        Also setting the plane to bright will make it look correct
in dim scenes.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

2] Veined Marble

Command:
        The veinedmarble texture is used twice, once for large, widely
spaced veins.  The second use is for finer, closely spaced veins.

        For veined green marble set the object color to 40,80,40 for
Red Green and Blue respectively. The texture veins are a gray-green
color.

  Text#1   Text#2    Parameter        Text#1   Text#2    Parameter

  800.0    300.0    Initial Scale       4.0      5.0      Turbidity
Command:
    7.0      7.0    # of Scales         0.9      0.98     Color Level
    0.4      0.4    Scale Ratio       120.0    120.0      Color Red
    0.6      0.6    Amp Ratio         150.0    150.0      Color Green
    0.4      0.4    Time Ratio        120.0    120.0      Color Blue
    0.0      0.0    Time                0.0      0.0      Fade 0..1
    1.0      1.0    Sharpness           0.0      0.0
   20.0     10.0    Vein Spacing        0.0      0.0

        Rotate the second texture 45 degrees around the X and Y axes
with respect to the first texture.  You may want to rotate the first
Command:
texture as well.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

3] Rough marble/rock

        This uses 2 textures, one for a main color variation, and
the other for the bump/roughness.  This is very effective for creating
stone surfaces.  Try these settings on a primitive plane.

Command:
    Object Attribs   R   G   B    Value
        Color     = 136 118 128
        Specular  = 153 134 132
        Dithering =                255
        Phong = On
        All others at 0.

    Texture 1:  fractalcolor       Texture 2:  bump
        Parameter        Value        Parameter        Value

Command:
        Initial Scale       15        Initial Scale       5
        # of scales         5         # of scales         4
        Scale Ratio         0.4       Scale Ratio         0.5
        Amplitude Ratio     0.4       Amplitude Ratio     0.5
        Time Ratio          0.4       Alt. Adjust         3
        Time                0         Fade 0..1           0
        Base->1 Trans       0.3       Axis placement left at default
        1->2 Trans          0.6
        Color 1 End         1
        Color 1 Red         70
Command:
        Color 1 Green       60
        Color 1 Blue        60
        Color 2 Red         255
        Color 2 Green       240
        Color 2 Blue        240
        Fade 0..1           0
        Axis placement left at default

        When rendered an off gray stone will be created.  Great for
caverns, dungeons and so on.  Just slap it onto the walls or columns
Command:
to give it good-ol' natural look.

========================================================================
                        SECTION 8 - Miscellaneous
========================================================================

1] What the heck is BTW, IMO and other weird abbreviations...

    BTW is an abbreviation for "By The Way".
    IMO is an abbreviation for "In My Opinion"
Command:
    IMHO is an abbreviation for "In My Humble Opinion"
    IML is an abbreviation for "Imagine Mailing List"
    :) is a sideways smiley face
    :( is a sideways frowny face
    ;) is a winking-eye face  etc...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

2] My rendering times and even my refresh times in the editors are
   much MUCH too slow, even with an accelerator. Is there any
Command:
   basic tricks or hints that are often overlooked that might help
   me out?"

        Always be sure to MERGE your objects. This eliminates multiple
faces, points and lines. Some objects have a VERY large number of these
and it can slow your times down by up to 1/2!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

3] When does one get good enough so that they don't render ugly
Command:
    pictures!

        Practice with a simple objects (to cut down trace time) over and
over and over.  Varying lighting & color etc.  This will allow you to
get the effect you want which is only a technical problem.

========================================================================
                CLOSING -  Closing statements and Disclaimer
========================================================================

Command:
        Hopefully this document is useful to people out there.  Once
again, if there is anything you want added/changed/deleted, please
e-mail as listed at the top of the document.

        What follows is a small disclaimer so no one gets sued for
information that is accidentally incorrect or misleading.  (If you find
a mistake...please send e-mail so it can be fixed!).

      Disclaimer: There is no guarantee regarding any information
                  presented in this document.  The information may not
Command:
                  be correct, useful or helpful.  The reader accepts ALL
                  responsibility for actions pertaining to reading this
                  document, regardless of consequence.

========================================================================
END OF IML-FAQ


--
+======================================================================+
Command:
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4138 Re: Essence II JPEGS
7/5/93 21:02 2/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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Thanks for the help...
I will go get the textures...
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3s1.4139 Re: More weird stuff on Essence I :)
7/5/93 21:01 8/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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-----
Are you in Group mode???
I have experieced this a lot of times on Imagine... I can't remember
what causes it... Maybe I am thinking of Turbo Silver, but have you tried
making a seperate axis this grouping that with all the related objects
and texturing the axis?? On turbo Silver you would tell the program
to apply attributes to all objects..

Later
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail t : [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4140 Re: Foggy Sundays like this one
7/6/93 00:42 48/ [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)
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>Hey I heard several times that Adpro is very powerfull, but I never
>heard anything about doing compositing with anbimations. Can
>you please tell me more about compositing in animations.

    Well, here's my story. I work on a near stock A4000. I've bought extra
ram for it but haven't upgraded the hd beyond the 120 megs that came with
it. With such a small hd (for animation), I've been running out of space
when generating 200+ 24 bit frames. To solve the problem, I run Sentry in
-----
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Command:
the background and have it process each frame as Imagine generates it.
Sometimes I just jpeg it and delete the larger 24bit original but I often
perform various image processing functions before compressing the image. I
haven't tried compositing from Sentry yet (there are other
auto-compositing tools in the ADPro package) but will learn if I can. You
can also create animations as the frames are generated or send them to a
single frame recorder. All this is implemented with ARexx scripts which
would be normally beyond my expertise but MANY are included in the
package. I haven't yet run across anything I can't do with the provided
functions. If want to make larger, more complex Imagine animations but
Command:
can't afford a super-HD, get ADPro and a few extra megs of ram. It's saved
me a bundle (in the short term, I know). I'm in no way associated with
ASDG or Impulse, just a happy customer (of ASDG anyway...FIX THOSE
BOOLEANS IMPULSE!).


>
>For example:
>Is it possible to layer three animtions with equal length onto
>themselves, with anim2 replacing color black in anim1 and anim3
Command:
>replaqcing color red in the combination out of anim2 and anim1

     YES! (defining the red could be a pain though ;-(, anyone have a tip?


>Wow that sounds terrible complicated, I am sorry English is not
>my mother language

     Some of the people on the nets that apologise about their English
often have better grammer then native speakers.
Command:


                                     o    Christopher


--
This Way Lies Madness..........                 [e-mail]
(512k A1000, a TV and ono floppy ;-).           Fido: 1:340/43, 1:134/92
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: imagineoemail.sp.paramax.com)
21400.3.1.4141 Re: Floating Essence and...
7/6/93 09:03 29/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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> 1-    I've been tsying to add mood to some of my renderings by applying
>       Essence textures to transparent objects (mostly simple, 2 triangle
>       planes). I leave all object attribute settings at their default
>       values  except color > 0,0,0 and filter > 255,255,255.
>       My objects do indeed become invisible, but so do any textures
>       that I apply to them. I thought that textures were applied on top
>       of object color, No?

Textures don't actually get applied "on top" of object color.  They 'replace'
the objects color according to the textures algorithm.
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Imagine uses the normals and the objects attribute color, filter etc., to
determine the color to put at that point.  It calculates the actual color
by mixing the light, deflection caused because of angle(determined by normal)
shadows, what ever, etc etc, so on and so forth(or something like that)
Before it calculates the actual color, however, it calls the texture routines,
which will affect the "original" attribute(as opposed to actual) color, or
in somecases(like disturb) the normals.  So if the texture you are applying
doesn't affect the filter attribute, then your filter will remain at max
(255 255 255).
Command:

Well, something like that anyway.

As for your aroblem, well, others have already answered that. Another suggestion
for you might be to read the manuals.  They really help...really!


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4142 Re: Essence II JPEGS
7/6/93 09:13 17/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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>     But I wanted to sugrest 2 things to be added in your software production
>     machinery's program :
>
>         - a 2D Texture generation program, like the one existing for Adobe
>           PhotoShop (XTextures). This should allow us to generate some really
>           nice textures which could be mapped in programs which don't support
>           Essence (well, everything except Imagine, I think ! ;-) ). It
>           should work this way : you select the texture you need (wood, clouds,
>           fire, etc...), then you modify its parameters, you give the width
>           and height of the picture you would like to generate, and then press
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>           one the "GO!" gadget :-)
>
>           A (quite) real-time rendering pre-view window should be present, too.

Why not just render a flat plane in front of the camera with ambient lighting?
A little more work, but probably less than Steve would have to do(if he hasn't
done it already).
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to:[e-mail])
21400.3.1.4143 Imagine wuarchive site?
7/6/93 10:03 18/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
Lnnes 1 to 10 of 18 (55%)
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        Hmnmm... now that i jsut uploaded the FAQ...i went to wuarchive
and noticed the dir /pub/amiga/incoming/imagine was there, but is
totally different.  The original subs aren't there.  I seem to recall
someone saying something changed.  Is this true?  If so where is the new
location?

                Thanks!
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--
+========================================================= ============+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4144 DAKDUNGN.LZH
7/6/93 12:04 h6/ Aaron Mahler <[e-mail]>
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  Anybody know where the recently posted DAKDUNGN.LZH might be
found? I know it was ontwuarchive in systems/amiga/incoming up
until last night. I really need it since my original copy had
CRC errors in it.

 Thtnks!
- Aaron

--
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---------------
  Aaron Mahler - Internet: [e-mail] | BIX: amahler
     Interactive Media, Inc - 307 Rivermont Avenue, Lynchburg, Va 24504
 "To search for perfection is all very well, but to look for Heaven is to
              live here in Hell." - Sting, Consider Me Gone
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4145 Re: Imagine wuarchive site?
7/6/93 12:56 18/ [e-mail] (Marvin Landis)
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>       Hmmmm... now that i jsut uploaded the FAQ...i went to wuarchive
> and noticed the dir /pub/amiga/incoming/imagine was there, but is
> totally different.  The original subs aren't there.  I seem to recall
> someone saying something changed.  Is this true?  If so where is the new
> location?

Look in /pub/amiga/video/imagine and you'll find the following directories:

anims
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archive
art
objects

Hopefully this is what you are looking for.

Marvin Landis
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4146 Re: Foggy Sundays like this one
7/6/93 23:44 35/ [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)
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>       I haven't worked with FRED yet (Amiga programs have such friendly
>       names :-)).  But I know when you merge stills you have the choice
>       of selecting the RGB value of the transparent color.  Does a
>       similar option exist when merging animations?  It's on my list of
>       things to do.  I just received my ADPRo upgrade, pro conv pack,
>       and Morph Plus.  Now all I need is time.  Time and ah.... more
>       memory.  Time, memory... and ah...  and a DPS PAR, ... and ah...
>       (ad infinitum).  ;-)
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     When compositing an animation I split the frames and process each
individual image. I don't know any other way to do it (genlocking springs
to mind, messy ;-(. If your animations are of different lengths you can
use the "time-stretch" function in FRED to fix that (making the shorter
one longer etc....
     As for the transparent color problem (for me anyway), I figured out a
way to make a range of red transparent. Just change the palette in a paint
program to make the desired area one color and make that transparent when
compositing. It may seem simple to some but it took me the better part of
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a day, lots to learn (will this never end, I seem to spend more time
reading manuals than actually DOING anything).
     Memory is a must. Compression is helping the other problem (hd etc..)
but not for much longer. This can be a damn expensive hobby (and where are
the girls, the glamor? I was promised ;-)



                                         Christopher

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4147 Re: Foggy Sundays like this one
7/6/93 23:52 30/ [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)
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>
>       Sometimes I just jpeg it and delete the larger 24bit original but I often
>       perform various image processing functions before compressing the image. I
>------------------
>I agree that ADPRO is great for image processing and whatnot, but you can do
>essentially the same with existing software. I think there is a version
>of JPEG (PD distribution) that will convert IFF24 images to JPEG
>directly... If you want to do image processing inbetween I would say
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>get ADPRO, but if you just want to JPEG frames you can use the PD distribution.
>I'm kinda interested to see what I can get going by combining
>that with the PBMPLUS software.. PBMPLUS is slow but there is some
>interesting filters that will do other things with existing 24-bit images
>.... similar to ADPRO, in a way.. I kinda feel like HAMLAB
>does better image processing than ADPRO, at least it is on pictures I have
>converted on both programs.. I haven't used the ADPRO with jpeg filters though.
>
>

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     With Adpro I jpeg the frames and delete them automaticly. It stops my
hd from filling up when I'm at work ;-). I realize that I may be able to
jpeg my Imagine (OOTR) frames with some scripts and pd utilities.
This is easier (for me).



--
This Way Lies Madness..........                 [e-mail]
(512k A1000, a TV and one floppy ;-).           Fido: 1:340/43, 1:134/92
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4148 Re: Essence II JPEGS
7/7/93 05:54 45/ [e-mail] (Raoul Kaltenhaeuser
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>
> >     But I wanted to suggest 2 things to be added in your software production
> >     machinery's program :
> >
> >         - a 2D Texture generation program, like the one existing for Adobe
> >           PhotoShop (XTextures). This should allow us to generate some really
> >           nice textures which could be mapped in programs which don't support
> >           Essence (well, everything except Imagine, I think ! ;-) ). It
> >           should work this way : you select the texture you need (wood, clouds,
> >           fire, etc...), then you modify its parameters, you give the width
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> >           and height of the picture you would like to generate, and then press
> >           one the "GO!" gadget :-)
> >
> >           A (quite) real-time rendering pre-view window should be present, too.
>
> Why not just render a flat plane in front of the camera with ambient lighting?
> A little more work, but probably less than Steve would have to do(if he hasn't
> done it already).
>

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This would be a lot slower than an origin 2D solution. If you want animated
textures, this slowness is multiplied by the number of frames. I would pay
for such a kind of program, so Steve would not do the work for nothing.

A few suggestions to this 2D Texture generator:

- possibility to select the desired projection method: cylinder, sphere...

- palette manipulation before saving

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- real cool, but perhaps difficult to realize: the possibility to load the
  object (not necessarily only Imagine, Glen "T3D" Lewis with his tremendous
  know-how about different object formats could perhaps write different
  loaders). Then you define the texture with paramters, alignment, position
  and projection method, and this program creates the picture(s) to be mapped
  later.

  Ok, this 2D texture mapping is not as good as using the solid textures, but
  much faster, and the pictures can be used several times and in different
  renderers.
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...Raoul

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4149 Disappearing brush problem solved.
7/7/93 13:50 13/ [e-mail]
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     I have noticed that occasionally when an object is rotated in the
detail editor after brushes are applied, the brushes will not be
properly rotated along with the object, and will somtimes refuse to
appear altogether.  When this occurs, the brushes can be made to
reappear if they are dropped from the object and reapplied after the
object is rotated.  Has anyone else noticed this ?
___________________________________________________________________
                  |         Internet: [e-mail]
Joe Hart          |     ///    Plink: OSS542
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Niagara Falls, NY | \\\///  Ham call: WA2SND
                  |  \XX/   AMIGA - Computers for REAL MEN
===================================================================
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4150 how about a collection of attributes to be placed in our li
7/7/93 13:52 15/ [e-mail]
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     I have often noticed requests on the list from some of us
( myself included.....;-) requesting the best set of attributes for
simulating materials such as wood, gold, diamonds, glass, marble, and
the like.  Perhaps we could send collections of our own favorite
settings to our library on wuarchive.  I have a few good settings
myself if anyone is interested.  I have been looking for some really
good aged wood and some stone walls myself.  If I send some along,
where is the preferred place to put them ?
___________________________________________________________________
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pand:
                  |         Internet: [e-mail]
Joe Hart          |     ///    Plink: OSS542
Niagara Falls, NY | \\\///  Ham call: WA2SND
                  |  \XX/   AMIGA - Computers for REAL MEN
============================================
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3..buffalo.edu
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     I am looking for a method of simulating old wooden planking with
weathering, cracks, and multiple knots.  I have noticed that the wood
texture supplied with Imagine seems to limit you to one knothole per
object to which it is applied.  Any sugges_________________________________________________
                  |         Internet: [e-mail]
Joe Hart          |     ///    Plink: OSS542
Niagara Falls, NY | \\\///  Ham call: WA2SND
                  |  \XX/   AMIGA - Computers for REAL MEN
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4152 interpretation of the attribute rgb slider settings.
7/7/93 13:48 79/ [e-mail]
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The following is a letter on object attributes that I have posted to the
mailing list before.  Forgive me if you have already seen it.  I have
decided to post it again as the list is much more active now than in
the past, and there was little response the last time.  Furthermore, I
am extremely interested in your opinions on the subject it raises.

A while back someone whose name I have since lost
posted the following :

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> It's always puzzled me why people want to be
> able to specify 100% reflection AND
> transparency AND color... why not just handle
> things so that the percentages all add up to
> 100%? The name of the game is to make realistic
> looking images, afterall (this requires no
> additional overhead other then a little
> checking in Attributes when people pull the
> sliders around). For example, if you specify
> that some substance should reflect 30% of the
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> light incident upon it, should absorb 10%
> (meaning the color is set to 90%), then
> automatically one knows that the transparency
> should be 60%. The *present* hiarchical
> interpretation of these sliders is a touch confusing.
> Minor in the extreme, but you know...;-)

This seems to make some sense to me, provided that
the color sliders really work in the way described.
If you do this, however, you will often get quite
Command:
a bit of unintended reflection.  For example, suppose
you design an old, unpolished wooden table top with the COLOR set
as follows :
0

Now, it is a well known fact that most of us cannot
see through an old wooden table top at all.  It seems,
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the the FILTER rgb parameters must be set
to exactly the same values as the COLOR rgb parameters.
For example , in the case of thION
                red     - 100
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                green - 52
                blue    - 30

This results in quite a bit of reflection from the table
top.   If you look at an old unpolished picnic table top,
you won't see much reflection.  e reconcile
this with the above guidelines ?

some additional notes since this letter was last posted .....

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   the reflectivity rgb parameters are
all set to 255, the filter and color rgb parameters lose all effect
regardless of their individual settings.  If the reflectivity rgb
parameters are turned down to zero, and the filter rgb parameters are
all set to 255, then the color rgb parameters still lose all effect
regardless of their individual settings.

     This would seem to suggest that the filter and color rgb parameters
collectively take effect only to the extent that the reflectivity rgb
parameters do not.  In this collective filter and color effect, the
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color rgb parameters take effect only to the extent that the filter rgb
parameters do not.  How might this be interpreted in light of the
above quoted commentary ?
___________________________________________________________________
                  |         Internet: [e-mail]
Joe Hart          |     ///    Plink: OSS542
Niagara Falls, NY | \\\///  Ham call: WA2SND
                  |  \XX/   AMIGA - Computers for REAL MEN
===================================================================
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4153 Imagine FAQ #3 uploaded
7/7/93 14:32 17/ [e-mail] (David Ingebretsen)
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For those who missed it, I've uploaded the Imagine FAQ #3 to aminet in
/gfx/3d and to wuarchvie in amiga/incoming/imagine. Thank you
Michael B. Comene forward back add_article
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        Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
        ding     Disclaimer: The content of this message in no way reflects the
                    opinions of my employer, nor are my act
                    encouraged, supported, or acknowledged by my
                    employer.
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Read article (texe (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4154 Re: What is a good way to make old wooden planking ?
7/7/93 15:01 4.org>
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On 7 Jul 1993 [e-mail] wrote:
>      I am looking for a method of simulating old wooden planking with
> weathering, cracks, and multiple knots.  I have noticed that the wood
> texture supplied with Imagine seems to limit you to one knothole per
> object to which it is applied.  Any suggestions ?

I made a plank-floor brushmap using this technique:

Make one plank, and play with the Wood texture values until it's as knotty
as you want it.  Then copy it repeatedly, and arrange the copies in a
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running bond pattern, just as real planks are laid, until you have enough
to cover the floor area you want.  Selecting ch of the copies in turn,
change the last number in the Wood texture requester to get variations in
the basic woodgrain patterl cut from
adjacent parts of the same tree.  I used variations of about a thousand
(6543,7543,5543,etc.) to get this effect fogroup of planks (perpendicular to your camera) with a
bright light source to give you a brushmap.  Trim the rendered woodgrainlso want to manually add nailheads, or spots of darker color to
simulate pegs, at the ends of each plank.

If you don't mind simple patterns, you can get away with just two boards:
one full length, the other split in half and rearranged beside it, to form
the simplest running bond:
_________
____|____
Command:
_________

Apply it as a fairly deep altitude map as well asa color map, and it
should give you the effect you're looking for.
-----------------------------------------------------------Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Read article (text)
.../Mail1400.3.1.4155 Terra Nova Imagine "Diner" Object set now available
7/7/93 18:07 57/ [e-mail]
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{{{Kindly note! - I am posting this on behalf of my friend, Brad Schenck,
who does not currently have net access (but will again soon). The product
described below is the prodict of HIS company. I'm just the messenger.
He did provixpect if you
have seen any of his work, it is totally impressive. Brad has rendered
three sample pictures of the Diner objectsne on Portal, and will
also FTP them over to one of the "Aminet" FTP sites for those of you who
don't use Portal. If for some add_article
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along to him.  If you want to order this new product, see the price and
mailing address contained in the press release below. It is shipping now.}}}
-----


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Terra Nova Development Releases "Diner" Object Set for Imagine

July 2, 1993
Command:

Terra Nova Development of Ventura, California has released Volume One of
its Designer Objects series of 3D models.  This first volume, "DINER", is
a three disk set of objects for Impulse, Inc.'s Imagine software for
Amiga computers.

The Diner set includes a variety of objects that together build a
complete diner of the early 1950's, including a jukebox, counter, booths,
a pay telephone, dishes, cups, silverware, and other items for place
settings.  In many cases there are both `hi-res' and `lo-res' versions
Command:
versions of objects so that artists can optimize their scenes for either
image quality or speedy rendering.

In addition to the objects and image maps there are two Imagine projects
on the disks.  One, with scenes that can be rendered on five megabyte
systems, offers fairly simple scenes; the other features more complex
scenes that require up to fourteen megabytes to render.  A manual is
included.

The Designer Objects series is intended to showcase the talents of gifted
Command:
3D artists by making available affordable collections of their 3D
objects.  The Diner objects were created by award-winning computer artist
Bradley W. Schenck, whose work should be familiar to the Amiga community
through articles and artworks including wins in the BADGE Killer Demo
Contests of 1988 and 1989.

Terra Nova Development, based on the California coast, is a
ground-breaking multimedia development company hard at work on
entertainment and application titles for several computer platforms.

Command:
Terra Nova Development
P. O. Box 2202
Ventura, California  93002

Price for the set is $47.50 US.  Direct sales orders from California
should include $3.44 sales tax.  Orders accepted with money order, check
or cashier's check in US funds.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4156 Terra Nova Imagine "Diner" Object set now available
7/8/93 06:07 22/ Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>
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In a previous post [e-mail] wrote:

>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>Terra Nova Development Releases "Diner" Object Set for Imagine

>The Diner set includes a variety of objects that together build a
>complete diner of the early 1950's, ..... {remainder deleted}

Two questions jump to mind.

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1) This had better NOT have anything to do with the "diner" project
   some of us were contributing objects to a few months ago.

2) What happened to that PD object/scene project anyway???

*************************************************************
* Adam Benjamin                     [e-mail] *
* Christian Animator                   [e-mail]    *
* Spokesmen for Club Paradise          Not a spokesman for  *
* Members ONLY (John 3:3)              Zenith Data Systems  *
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*************************************************************

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4157 Re: Terra Nova Imagine "Diner" Object set now available
7/8/93 08:43 41/ David Watters <[e-mail]>
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> >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> >Terra Nova Development Releases "Diner" Object Set for Imagine

> 1) This had better NOT have anything to do with the "diner" project
>    some of us were contributing objects to a few months ago.


I find it extremely hard to believe that Bradley would need any help
creating nice looking objects because of what he has done in the past and
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that he would be that stupid.

However...

> 2) What happened to that PD object/scene project anyway???
                           ^^

PD is just what it says... Public Domain.  If something is released as
Public Domain it is open to be used in anyway someone wants to, regardless
of any copyright notices somone might include.
Command:

In fact, PD stuff can be grabbed and used in something that is copyrighted
by someone else.

If you guys released your objects as PD, then there is no reason someone can't
grab the collection and sell it.

Freeware is free material that retains it's copyright.

This is what I remember from a class in Software legalities.  If things have
Command:
changed or if I need corrected... feel free.

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"<Censored>.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
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                        - Car and Driver, January 1993
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4158 Where I've been
7/8/93 08:49 33/ [e-mail] (Peter Mancini)
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Dear Imagineers,

sorry for my absence from the net.  I've been in awkward situations
lately.  Here are my excuses for not logging in.  In late may I broke my
foot and later that week contracted a very nasty case of viral
bronchitis.  A month and a half later when I was feeling a little better
I decided to log on.  Guess what, with summer session at NU TPTB opted
to rip out the bug ridden micom and modem net.  TPTB also had a small
brain cramp because they also decided to simultaneously upgrade the OS
on the server, and replace other mission critcal apps.  The expected '4
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days' down time turned to weeks.  Yesterday was the first day I got to
log in.

OK!  Where do people stand with their individual projects?  So far I
have the calender (nice!) and Vince's menu.  I will check with both
designers to make sure they have given me the ok to put these on the
net.

As for the Terra Design stuff, I've never heard of it.  It sounds nice.
But the purpose of our projects is tutorial, not something for
Command:
videographers.  I hope no one mistakes the commercial product for our
efforts.

If you are still in the project please email me.  I just cleaned my
mail-box of 421 mail messages.  I didn't read them all.  I looked for
key words that would indicate that Joe's was the subject but I could
have easily missed SEVERAL letters.

Again I am sorry for not being able to log in, I promise to try and keep
my health a bit better.
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--Pete

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4159 Re: Terra Nova Imagine "Diner" Object set now available
7/8/93 09:37 22/ [e-mail]
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>Two questions jump to mind.
>
>1) This had better NOT have anything to do with the "diner" project
>   some of us were contributing objects to a few months ago.
>
>2) What happened to that PD object/scene project anyway???
>
>*************************************************************
>* Adam Benjamin                     [e-mail] *

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1) It has NOTHING to do with that project. These are all original
objects, created by Bradley Schenck. Later this year, Electronic
Arts will be releasing a CD-ROM game Brad and his partner have
been working on for the past two years, entitled "The Labyrinth."
These objects, or most of them, are featured in one of the scenes
from that game. I won't comment otherwise on the threatening
tone of your point #1.

2) No idea.

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Harv
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4160 Re: interpretation of the attribute rgb slider settings.
7/8/93 09:41 54/ "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
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>> It's always puzzled me why people want to be
>> able to specify 100% reflection AND
>> transparency AND color... why not just handle
>> things so that the percentages all add up to
>> 100%? [more interesting stuff deleted]

   The way I see it, there are actually four parameters to worry about.
        1) transparency
        2) absorption
        3) "clean" reflectivity (as in a mirror)
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        4) diffuse reflectivity (what we would normally call color)

   It might be possible to add these parameters up to 100%.  I believe
that there is a failure in your system to assume that an absorption of
10% indicates a color of 90%.  You've forgotten that some of the remaining
90% of light that is not absorbed can be transmitted through the object.
More importantly, however, is that light can be reflected both "cleanly",
which would be the reflectivity sliders in Imagine, and diffusely, which
are the color sliders.
   Therefor, by setting three of the four possible parameters, we can
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control all possiblities.
   In the case of you old unpolished wooden table, you would set the color
>               red     - 100
>               green - 52
>               blue    - 30
   I would agree that few people can see through our table so the filter
rgbs woulb be set to zero.  Since the table is unpolished so set the
reflectivity rgbs to zero.  The rest of the light that is not diffusely
reflected is absorbed by the object and turned into heat.

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   As for you observations regarding setting filter rgbs to 255, it would
appear to me that this is the first of the three parameters that Imagine
checks.  Thus, if transparency is 100%, Imagine says "Why bother!?" and
it assumes the other two sets of rgbs are set to zero.
   I would then guess that Imagine checks the filter settings.  Again,
if it finds that 100% of the light is passing through the object, it
doesn't check the color rgbs.

   I'll admit that I haven't played alot with this concept.  I still am
trying to use an unaccelerated A2000.  Please remember though that Imagine
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only models the real world.  Some programmer at Impulse came up with an
algorithm that SEEMS to reproduce the real world even if it doesn't
function the same way.

   IMHO

   Keep in mind, I'm only an undergrad physics major, so what do I know?

--------                        ///\    |\      /| """"|""""  /""""\     /\
Charles Peterson               ///  \   | \    / |     |      |         /  \
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Tony Peterson              \\\///----\  |  \  /  |     |      |  --\   /----\
Iowa State University       \XX/      \ |   \/   | ____|____  \____/  /      \
Internet: [e-mail]  -----------------------------------------------
--------
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4161 Re: Terra Nova Imagine "Diner" Object set now available
7/8/93 11:00 13/ Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>
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>1) It has NOTHING to do with that project. These are all original
>objects, created by Bradley Schenck. Later this year, Electronic
>Arts will be releasing a CD-ROM game Brad and his partner have
>been working on for the past two years, entitled "The Labyrinth."
...

> I won't comment otherwise on the threatening tone of your point #1.

Opps, I didn't mean to sound "threatening"  Sorry if others got that
idea.  I was just asking!
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Adam

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4162 Re: DAKDUNGN.LZH
7/8/93 13:20 24/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
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Sorry about the screwup, people.  I forgot to set the BINARY mode on when
I uploaded the D&D objects.

I've reloaded DAKDUNGN.LZH and the README file to
wuarchive.wustl.edu/pub/amiga/incoming/imagine

I've also uploaded a smaller archive of just the dungeon door group, named
dngndoor.lzh and a doorread.me file that explains how to open & close it.

Both these archives were created on a PC using LHA v.2.13.  I've tested
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the smaller archive by downloading, decompressing, and rendering, so it
DOES work (at least on my PC).

If there are any other problems, whould somebody please let me know? Thanks!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4163 Oddz & Endz
7/8/93 22:10 52/ "J_GEORGE" <[e-mail]>
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Hello...

Just a quick note of greetings to the rest of the Imagineers out there. Been
on the mailing list roughly a week and a half and have learned a bit. Thanks.

Anyway, on to my questions:

[1] I've created a pocket watch (for a personal logo) and have been trying to
figure out the best way to cycle the hands. My goal is to have all three hands
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in motion in some sort of sync (sec hand fastest, minute hand next fastest,
hour hand slowest). I've got a copy of (and have read several times) Worley's
"Understanding Imagine" book, which mentions the use of 12, 4, and 8 for
smooth clockwise rotation, but trying to sync the other hands based on this
has presented some problems (usually at some point the hand will bounce
back counter-clockwise... er uh, one or both of the two not synced on 12,4,8).
Any suggestions or ideas? I've asked a few animators and besides making a
bunch of keys for each hand that goes haywire, I haven't seen any other
alternatives. I've tried this and at some point the motion on one (or both)
problem hands speeds up or slows down. Fluid rotation is a must, so each time
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it's been back to the drawing board..

[2] I'm currently working on a series of anims that are going to be dropped
to video. Ultimately, I would like the finished video to at least be near
(if not) broadcast quality. I've worked with a genlocking device, have heard
about SFC's and Time Base Correctors, but I'm still a little unsure as to
everything that would be needed for such a setup (especially costs, brand
names, etc). If anyone has attempted something like this (on a college
student's budget), any and all advice/ideas would be appreciated. This is
for both a school project and later to be used as a self-promotional tape for
Command:
job-huntin purposes, and I'm financing the project myself, so both optimum and
minimum setup descriptions are welcome.

[3] On the subject of morphing, I understand that Imagine (currently) will only
morph objects of similar structures (points, etc). As I type this I've got an
anim rendering on the Amiga, and afterwards plan to attempt this: To get one
shape (let's say a bird) to morph into another (let'
let's say a lion) by taking a copy of both the bird object and lion object,
the joining/merging them each into solid objects. Next, take the copy of the
lion, shrink it to a tiny size and "attach" it somewhere out of sight on the
Command:
bird then join/merge the two.... and do the same to the lion using the tiny
bird. As far as I can see, both will have the same number of points/edges after
this (and will hopefully morph with ease). Are there any programs out (or in
the works) that will automatically perform tasks of this nature?

Looking forward to hearing your responses.. thanks for reading this far and
it's good to be aboard.


                                                        I\/Iax I\Iomad
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4164 Re: Terra Nova Imagine "Diner" Object set now available
7/8/93 21:28 17/ Cliff Lee <[e-mail]>
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> {{{Kindly note! - I am posting this on behalf of my friend, Brad Schenck,
> who does not currently have net access (but will again soon).
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> Terra Nova Development Releases "Diner" Object Set for Imagine
>
> Terra Nova Development of Ventura, California has released Volume One of
> its Designer Objects series of 3D models.  This first volume, "DINER", is
> a three disk set of objects for Impulse, Inc.'s Imagine software for
> Amiga computers.

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Please pass this along to your net-less friend...
Since there is now a PC version of the program, will the objects be
available in a MS-DOS format?  The objects will port over easily, but the
the maps and other things may need some tweaking.  Any ideas?

Cliff Lee

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4165 2 questions plus attribute request.
7/9/93 01:14 31/ [e-mail] (Ian Bale)
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Hi all,
       just a few quick questions.

1)
With all this talk about uploading our favourite attributes, I was hoping
that someone may have already uploaded two sets of attributes that I need:

        grass   : To be viewd from a distance under 'moonlight'
        granite : Will be seen close up.

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If someone has some suitable attributes that they've used, I'd be gratefull
for the settings.


2)
Also I've been trying to light my objects with a conical lightsource. I know
that the y-axis determines how far the light will travel, and the x-axis
determines the final radius of the light beam. Is there any way to graphically
set the light axis? I'd like to be sure that it is just encompassing the
required area, and not going over or under.
Command:


3)
 How do I reposition the axis of an object? Its probably something simple I've
 missed, but I can't work out how to do it.


Thanks for your help,


Command:
Elfrick.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4166 Re: More weird stuff on Essence I :)
7/7/93 00:58 16/ [e-mail] (Michael Linton)
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Well, as I was just telling Steve, an Impulse texture works with the
group just fine. I decided to switch to an Essence texture instead, (to
see if it would look better than the Pastella texture (which it does)).
So, Pastella works on the group, but not the 2 Essence textures I've
tried.  Haven't really had the time to play around with it much, I even
forgot I posted the message about it actually. :)  I'll fiddle with it
later, when I'm more awake.  TTYSS.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  "...even the stuff you taught me, has been pushed back into the dark
recesses of my mind...  Need a candle or two (rendered of course, as
my light source) to find all that buried info again..."

                      -- Barb Hall on learning Imagine

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4167 Re: Oddz & Endz
7/9/93 07:56 50/ [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
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>>>>> On 9 Jul 93 00:10:00 EST, "J_GEORGE" <[e-mail]> said:

Max> [3] On the subject of morphing, I understand that Imagine
Max> (currently) will only morph objects of similar structures (points,
Max> etc). As I type this I've got an anim rendering on the Amiga, and
Max> afterwards plan to attempt this: To get one shape (let's say a
Max> bird) to morph into another (let' let's say a lion) by taking a
Max> copy of both the bird object and lion object, the joining/merging
Max> them each into solid objects. Next, take the copy of the lion,
Max> shrink it to a tiny size and "attach" it somewhere out of sight on
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Max> the bird then join/merge the two.... and do the same to the lion
Max> using the tiny bird. As far as I can see, both will have the same
Max> number of points/edges after this (and will hopefully morph with
Max> ease). Are there any programs out (or in the works) that will
Max> automatically perform tasks of this nature?

        Great idea, but I'm afraid that the objects must not only have
the same number of points/edges/faces, but the objects must have the
same indices as well (for points *and* for edges *and* for faces), which
of course, is very restrictive.  In other words, point[20] within the
Command:
first object will morph to point[20] in the second object, etc.  If you
can guarantee that these merges will keep the indices identical for the
lion and for the bird, then at least you won't get a jumbled mess.  (Or
you can write a little program to read both objects in with T3DLIB and
then make absolutely sure that all points, edges, and faces correlate
and write out the two new "merged" objects.  But this is not for the
weak-of-heart.  And no, I won't write it right now... it's not worth it
[see next paragraph] and I'm working on EssencePC, not to mention my day
job and wife and two kids.  Ooops, I said I wouldn't mention those.  :-)

Command:
        *However* even if you *do* have all the point/edge/face indices
identical in both objects, what your effect will see is a lion growing
out of a bird, not morphing from one to another.  See why?  Um, how to
explain?  You have a tiny lion growing into a big one and a big bird (no
Ernie, though) shrinking into a small one.  At some point, the lion will
protrude out of the bird, and the bird will shrink underneath the lion.
Weird effect, but not a morph.

        About two (3?) years ago, I started working on morphing
algorithms, with the goal of making one that would morph *ANY* generic
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object to another.  Steve Worley and I struck up our friendship back
then, and he and I tossed around lots of ideas, and trying them out.  I
also was heavily enhancing T3DLIB.  But we also started developing some
other way cool stuff that kinda outweighed the morphing... unfortunately
morphing has been shelved for a long time now, but when I get more time
I plan on going back to it.  I think we've got a great way to perform
the morph, but I gotta sit down and write it sometime.  Anyway, those
other distractions are what led to Essence and Essence II.

                                                        -- Glenn
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4168 Oddz & Endz
7/9/93 09:33 56/ [e-mail] (David Ingebretsen)
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   From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
   Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 14:56:55 GMT
   References: <[e-mail]>
   Reply-To: [e-mail]

   >>>>> On 9 Jul 93 00:10:00 EST, "J_GEORGE" <[e-mail]> said:

   Max> [3] On the subject of morphing, I understand that Imagine
   Max> (currently) will only morph objects of similar structures (points,
   Max> etc). As I type this I've got an anim rendering on the Amiga, and
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   Max> afterwards plan to attempt this: To get one shape (let's say a

talk about morphing idea deleted...

   Max> ease). Are there any programs out (or in the works) that will
   Max> automatically perform tasks of this nature?

           Great idea, but I'm afraid that the objects must not only have
   the same number of points/edges/faces, but the objects must have the
   same indices as well (for points *and* for edges *and* for faces), which
Command:
   of course, is very restrictive.  In other words, point[20] within the

Glenn's comments mostly deleted...

   the morph, but I gotta sit down and write it sometime.  Anyway, those
   other distractions are what led to Essence and Essence II.

                                                           -- Glenn

I purchased the product Morphus that is designed to morph, warp, and
Command:
otherwise distort Imagine objects. It will with some success morph two
objects of completely different structure. It's an amazing tool and one
that I've not fully been able to explore. One of the examples is taking a
flat plane and morphing it into a torus. It's very impressive. The drawback
is that to do its magic, it creates an intermediate object for each frame
of the animation. For a 30 frame morph, you end up with 30 objects. It has
a utility to add these objects to the staging file or a utility such as ISL
could be used.

I read somewhere (was it here?) where an individual used Morphus to morph a
Command:
flat painting into a "toothpaste tube" that squirted spheres that morphed
into something else. It sounded pretty wild.

I purchased my copy directly from Impulse. Well worth the money.


        David

        David M. Ingebretsen
        Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Command:
        [e-mail]

        Disclaimer: The content of this message in no way reflects the
                    opinions of my employer, nor are my actions
                    encouraged, supported, or acknowledged by my
                    employer.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4169 Re: 2 questions plus attribute request.
7/9/93 09:46 23/ John J Humpal <[e-mail]>
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Ian Bale writes:
>
> Also I've been trying to light my objects with a conical lightsource. I know
> that the y-axis determines how far the light will travel, and the x-axis
> determines the final radius of the light beam. Is there any way to graphically
> set the light axis? I'd like to be sure that it is just encompassing the
> required area, and not going over or under.
>
        Get the size, position and alignment coordinates of your light, then
add an axis, use the transformation requester to set its position and
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alignment and size to exactly those of the light.  You can scale the axis
interactively and match the light to it.
>
> 3)
>  How do I reposition the axis of an object? Its probably something simple I've
>  missed, but I can't work out how to do it.
>
        It's in the manual.  Use <shift>-M to interactively move the axis.
--
-John
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John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4170 Re: NIR : RPL (was Re: Apex)
7/6/93 23:26 27/ [e-mail] (Philippe Berard)
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Hello AIDE (AIDE Kiernan). On Jul 5, you have written :

>           By the way, doing their textures in RPL would allow us to look at their
>           code, which I'm sure they wouldn't want !? :^)
> -------------
> Naw... I don't think it would be that hard for them to have
> thier texturing information coexist with thier textual texturing information..
> Just create a binary and textual format.. They can even password/key
> [lot of well-known technics deleted]

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    Kiernan, do you even know what you're talking about ?

    RPL is an interpreted language, which is interpreted by the "real"
    program. Consider this like a scripting language and you'll see
    how much you're out of subject. RPL can't be compiled, and there
    is no binary format at this time (maybe in the future, though), so
    the Essence package would be slow (even if RPL is faster than
    ARexx ;-) ) this way.

    Regards,
Command:
                                   -- Philippe

.----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
|  Philippe Berard  (French Amiga User)       | UseNet : [e-mail] |
|  "They hold a cup of wisdom,                | -> Please don't send mails   |
|   But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). |           >50 Ko !           |
`----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4171 Re: Oddz & Endz
7/9/93 11:31 40/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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> [1] I've created a pocket watch (for a personal logo) and have been trying to
[explination deleted]

thats a tough one... sounded easy at first but then I thought about it...
Are you doing this in the cycle editor?

> [3] On the subject of morphing, I understand that Imagine (currently) will only
> morph objects of similar structures (points, etc). As I type this I've got an
> anim rendering on the Amiga, and afterwards plan to attempt this: To get one
> shape (let's say a bird) to morph into another (let'
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> let's say a lion) by taking a copy of both the bird object and lion object,
> the joining/merging them each into solid objects. Next, take the copy of the
> lion, shrink it to a tiny size and "attach" it somewhere out of sight on the
> bird then join/merge the two.... and do the same to the lion using the tiny
> bird. As far as I can see, both will have the same number of points/edges after
> this (and will hopefully morph with ease). Are there any programs out (or in
> the works) that will automatically perform tasks of this nature?
>
I read about, and I can't recall where, a suggestion to get around the problems
that Glen mentioned.  It went something like this:
Command:
Key frame 1:  bird sitting there, lion object that has been
             "conformed to sphere" and is scaled down to small is in middle
             of bird object
Key frame x(middle of morph):  bird is conformed to sphere, lion is still a
           sphere but is same size as bird sphere.
Key frame 2x(last frame of morph):  bird sphere is small in middle of lion
                                lion is ... a lion.

Well, something like that. I think they mentioned something about using
transparency levels morphing as well.  What you wind up with is a bird to
Command:
lion with an intermediate sphere stage.  Not near as nice as a bird to lion
direct but less work.  I haven't tried this, as you probably guessed, but
if you do, or anyone else has, let us know what you found to work best.
(Does Steve mention this in his book?)

Does anyone know if Morphus, by Impulse(distributed anyway) provides any help
in this area?

Tom Setzer
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4172 Re: Oddz & Endz
7/9/93 11:35 10/ [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
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>>>>> On Fri, 9 Jul 93 10:33:29 MDT, [e-mail] (David Ingebretsen) said:

David> [...Praise of Morphus deleted - thanks for the info...]
David> ... The drawback is that to do its magic, it creates an
David> intermediate object for each frame of the animation. For a 30
David> frame morph, you end up with 30 objects.

        Yes, this is a necessary evil because of the limitations of
Imagine, unfortunately.
                                                -- Glenn
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4173 Clear tha messsages
7/9/93 15:25 62/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 62 (16%)
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text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
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Hello ALL ( <- korny, yah?)

here is an AREXX prog I did to remove the header info from InterNet msgs.
It's not IMAGINE related, but it's IML related..
cut the arexx prog, and save it as "email.ed" in the REXX: directory.
To use it, load the messages to ED 2.0 (yes! I use ED!), then press ESC
and type "rx /email/", and after the process is finished save it back.

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           -------------------Start Of Listing------------------

/* Delete those lengthy, unneccesary lines from E-mail messages
        By Nir Hermoni (Author of "THIS PROGRAM")                                                       */

HOST = address()
address VALUE HOST

'UC'                                                                    /* Case sensitive search */

Command:
FOUND=0

't'                                                                     /* go to top of file */

'f' '/Received:/'                               /* find the line containing "Received:" */
if RC=0 then FOUND=1                            /* All is fine? continue then */

do while FOUND=1
        'd'                                             /* delete current line */
        'f' '/Received:/'                               /* find next occurence of "Recieved:" */
Command:
        if RC=0 then FOUND=1                    /* All is fine? continue then */
        else FOUND=0                                    /* Didn't find it? Get out of loop */
end

'b'                                                                     /* Go to bottom of file */

'bf' '/id AA/'
if RC=0 then FOUND=1

do while FOUND=1
Command:
        'd'
        'bf' '/id AA/'
        if RC=0 then FOUND=1
        else FOUND=0
end

say 'Operation Complete'

exit

Command:
            -----------------End Of Listing-------------------

It's rough, but it works!
you can add as many words-by-which-delete-lines as you want, just
copy/paste the performing section.
Marvin Landis wrote a similar program in C for his mailer. I don't mind if
you use his solution..;) but mine will work on any Amiga with ED and
AREXX.

Nir Hermoni ( Author of "THIS MESSAGE" )
Command:
[e-mail]

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4174 Re: Oddz & Endz
7/9/93 17:34 18/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
Lines 1 to 10 of 18 (55%)
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        bird then join/merge the two.... and do the same to the lion using the tiny
        bird. As far as I can see, both will have the same number of points/edges after
        this (and will hopefully morph with ease). Are there any programs out (or in
---------------
That is a clever idea but it might not work.. It depends on how Imagine
does morphs.. Similar morphs are a piece of cake to do (what I am
writing now is something if this magnitude.. a 3D morphing program),
but 3D dissimilar morphing is harder... One problem is,
"what if you have a torus and you try to morph it into a sphere,
where is the hole going to go???".. I have some ideas how to do
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it on the programming level but I haven't read any books on how it is
properly done.. It is sometimes easier to figure this stuff
out by just drawing it out, but some stuff is nearly impossible
to think about.. there is where the intense studying and programming
comes in.

Welll...  I'll probably have to take this to "comp.sys.graphics.visualization".

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4175 Re: NIR : RPL (was Re: Apex)
7/9/93 17:57 55/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
Lines 1 to 10 of 55 (18%)
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move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

            RPL is an interpreted language, which is interpreted by the "real"
            program. Consider this like a scripting language and you'll see
------------------
Read my message next time.. I know, like I am not a Computer Science
major for nothing...

In 8086 assembly (with DOS interrupts using DEBUG):
0100 mov dx,107
0103 mov ax,9    ; is that the correct parameter for Int 21 call in dos??
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0105 int 21
0106 ret
0107 db "I know, I know, I know, I know"

In C:
main ()
{
        char *i = "I know,";
        printf("%s %s %s \n",i,i,i);
}
Command:

In fortran:
                 PROGRAM IKNOW
                 print *,'I know, I know, I know'
                 END

In pascal:
{Pascal sucks... Lets not write anything in it...}

In basic:
Command:
10 rem basic sucks tooo...
20 print "I know, I know, I know"
30 end

In Csh:
set iknow = "I know, I know, I know"
echo $iknow
-----------------
            how much you're out of subject. RPL can't be compiled, and there
            is no binary format at this time (maybe in the future, though), so
Command:
            the Essence package would be slow (even if RPL is faster than
            ARexx ;-) ) this way.
-----------------
What I am saying is whatever Real3D takes its textures in are a binary
format.. Compiled or just plain data structure... it doesn't matter
to me.. What I am really doing is throwing a hint at the creators of
Real3D... Make a texture languaging system in text and binary
formats... If they want to keep people from tweeking their
textures and re-selling them, they can put their own textures
in a prorietary format that is key/password protected... The text format
Command:
can be used for others who wish to make thier own textures, and thus add
to the texture libraries... etc...

It is not relevant according to what currently exists...
I'm just saying that it doesn't have to be the end of the road.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4176 Re: Oddz & Endz
7/9/93 18:01 8/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
Lines 1 to 8 of 8 (100%)
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-----
        I purchased the product Morphus that is designed to morph, warp, and
        otherwise distort Imagine objects. It will with some success morph two
        objects of completely different structure. It's an amazing tool and one
------------
Ya I saw that program... I wonder how that morph of the plane into the
torus was made... Dissimilar object morphing is something I would like
to attack.. I'm just doing similar object morphing..

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4177 Re: Oddz & Endz
7/9/93 18:13 13/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
Lines 1 to 10 of 13 (76%)
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-----
Here is my idea about dissimlar object morphing...
What if you read in both objects,
find out how many triangles (primitives) each contains,
then subdivide triangles in the object that doesn't have enough primitives...
(possibly making 3D data structures [octrees??] of each then finding out
where most of the subdivided triangles would have to be made, that would
make the morph smoother.)  Take the start object and find which points
are closer to the destination objects points and assign the interpolation
courses accordingly.. Then all you would do is resort the start object
so that all triangles are presented in the same order as the destination
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